Frolik Vs Versteeg

[HjalmarFan]

For discussion sake I'd take both over Bickell. Just saying.

Like everybody, I was perplexed by the contracts given to Bickell and Crawford, but I am not convinced they are bad contracts or that Frolik and Versteeg are better than Bickell. Obviously he was off to a slow start and then got injured, but Bickell has a very rare combination of speed, size and a willingness to use his size. Perhaps I just trust Stan Bowman to an unhealthy degree.

 

[BronYrAur]

For discussion sake I'd take both over Bickell. Just saying.

This is the correct answer.

The only reason I can think of that Fro was traded to keep Bicks, was that from a marketing perspective the Hawks did not want to lose both of the guys who scored the 2 goals late in SCF Game 6. Additionally, Stan I suppose figured he could keep Bickell and at least get something out of losing Frolik.

Because the Hawks would certainly be in better shape w/ Frolik's expiring contract as opposed to Bickell's awful cap-eater of a deal. Which, IMO, will cause us to lose one of our good young players at some point in the next few years.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

They paid Bickell for his potential. Don't see him ever consistently playing to it. Just my take, but Versteeg with Shaw and Frolik makes more sense than having Bickell on it.

Willing to give Bickell a shot to see if he goes bananas in the playoffs again, but I have serious reservations about him doing so.

 

[BronYrAur]

They paid Bickell for his potential. Don't see him ever consistently playing to it. Just my take, but Versteeg with Shaw and Frolik makes more sense than having Bickell on it.

Willing to give Bickell a shot to see if he goes bananas in the playoffs again, but I have serious reservations about him doing so.

I wish someone out there could explain this line of thinking to me. Bickell goes on a hot streak and puts up 17 pts in any 23 game stretch in the regular season, it's just a hot streak. But as soon as it happens in the playoffs people freak out. It's random variation from his typical talent level, completely unpredictable. And to start this season he fell on the opposite end of that spectrum.

The biggest difference between playoff Bickell and regular season Bickell? Linemates & Ice time. If Bickell can flip the switch and play like that during the playoffs, why doesn't he do it during the regular season?

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Because no power forward does.

Bickell is also a guy with a history of questionable motivation.

But the biggest difference between a regular season hot streak and being the best forward on the ice in several playoff games?

One is a regular season thing and the other is playoff hockey. Night and day.

 

[Blackhawks]

I dont understand why everyone is tripping over Bickell, without him most likely the Hawks dont win the cup, he played for a 6 million dollar player last year and the year that the played Vancouver he was a big part of the come back till he went down and could not play game 7 and Hawks lost. Lets just say the Hawks owed him for that 500k contract that he signed for 3 years. Also you get paid for what you did and not what you are going to do and for what he did in the playoffs he definitely deserved it.

His hightened performance in the playoffs was apparent with the small sample sizes the two prior years.

38gp 13G 11A +17 --- scoring on more than a 3rd of his games

I will start complaining when he can not deliver in the post season

 

[HjalmarFan]

They paid Bickell for his potential. Don't see him ever consistently playing to it. Just my take, but Versteeg with Shaw and Frolik makes more sense than having Bickell on it.

Willing to give Bickell a shot to see if he goes bananas in the playoffs again, but I have serious reservations about him doing so.

For all my defense of Bickell, I'd really like to see him take Bollig's spot on the fourth line. My ideal lineup is as follows:


Sharp Toews Hossa
Saad LeBlanc Kane
Morin Shaw Versteeg
Bickell Kruger Smith

Healthy Scratches: Bollig, Handzus

I really want to see Pirri, McNeill and LeBlanc duke it out for that second line spot, keeping Handzus around just in case none of them claim the spot in time for the playoffs.

And I'd also like to stop watching this Brookbank/Roszival/Kostka platoon. I'd love to see the Hawks call up either Clendening (4,16, 20, +2) or Dahlbeck (7, 9, 16, +3). They've both earned a chance to play, I can only imagine we're holding off as long as possible for long term financial reasons.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Too many kids.

 

[Bubba88]

I was told that we can't afford to lose the next Power Forward after losing Buff before

 

[ColdSteel2]

I will start complaining when he can not deliver in the post season

Yeah, was the same way with Bolland. He sucks, He sucks, we just won the series!

 

[HockeySauce]

Frolik is not the reason the Hawks PK was outstanding last year, and now that he's gone, terrible this year.

The PP, with the exact same coaches and players, went from terrible last year, to one of the best in the league this year.

The Hawks special teams seem to go back-and-forth every year. Bad PK, good PP one year, and then the reverse the next year.

 

[Kathryn Tappen]

Is Versteeg that much of an improvement offensively to justify loosing such a solid PKer?

Not in my opinion.

Kind of off topic here, but I'd even go as far as saying I miss Stalberg's speed.

 

[BobbyJet]

Frolik is not the reason the Hawks PK was outstanding last year, and now that he's gone, terrible this year.

The PP, with the exact same coaches and players, went from terrible last year, to one of the best in the league this year.

The Hawks special teams seem to go back-and-forth every year. Bad PK, good PP one year, and then the reverse the next year.

Yeah, that makes sense, must just be a pattern that's inexplicable .... NOT

 

[HockeySauce]

Yeah, that makes sense, must just be a pattern that's inexplicable .... NOT

Care to explain why the PP, with the exact same players and coaches, has gone from one of the worst last year to one of the best this year? Or why the PK, minus one player, has gone from one of the best last year to one of the worst this year?

 

[BobbyJet]

Care to explain why the PP, with the exact same players and coaches, has gone from one of the worst last year to one of the best this year? Or why the PK, minus one player, has gone from one of the best last year to one of the worst this year?

Our PP has been a work in progress for quite a while. This season their system has changed mainly with their movement in the ops zone - it is much, much better .... and their entry is pretty good too. In particular, Kane has stepped it up and Shaw is getting better at getting in the goalie's kitchen. Leddy has improved and Keith is playing Norris trophy hockey. Toews and Kane are a year wiser and Sharp is having having a career year. That'll spark any PP.

 

[HockeySauce]

Our PP has been a work in progress for quite a while. This season their system has changed mainly with their movement in the ops zone - it is much, much better .... and their entry is pretty good too. In particular, Kane has stepped it up and Shaw is getting better at getting in the goalie's kitchen. Leddy has improved and Keith is playing Norris trophy hockey. Toews and Kane are a year wiser and Sharp is having having a career year. That'll spark any PP.

Kane was always dangerous on the PP last year. He was the only reason the Hawks PP scored any goals.

Keith gets as many shots through on the PP as he ever has. That hasn't changed.

Toews and Kane are a year wiser? They were a year wiser last year, when the Hawks PP went to ****. Kane was on pace for a career season last year too, and if anything, Toews' play has taken a step back this season from last year.. though, Toews pretty much plays the same way all the time, he just hasn't been as effective offensively.

I'm not reading much of an explanation.

 

[BobbyJet]

Kane was always dangerous on the PP last year. He was the only reason the Hawks PP scored any goals.

Keith gets as many shots through on the PP as he ever has. That hasn't changed.

Toews and Kane are a year wiser? They were a year wiser last year, when the Hawks PP went to ****. Kane was on pace for a career season last year too, and if anything, Toews' play has taken a step back this season from last year.. though, Toews pretty much plays the same way all the time, he just hasn't been as effective offensively.

I'm not reading much of an explanation.

Our PP has been a work in progress for quite a while. This season their system has changed mainly with their movement in the ops zone - it is much, much better .... and their entry is pretty good too.

 

[HockeySauce]

Hawks PP/PK through the years:

PP: 2013-14 (thus far) - 23.7%, 5th | PK: 2013-14 - 73.1%, 29th
PP: 2012-13 -16.7%, 19th | PK: 2012-13 - 87.2%, 3rd
PP: 2011-12 - 15.2%, 26th | PK: 2011-12 - 78.1%, 27th
PP: 2010-11 - 23.1%, 4th | PK: 2010-11 - 79.2%, 25th
PP: 2009-10 - 17.7%, 16th | PK: 2009-10 - 85.3% 4th
PP: 2008-09 - 19.3%, 12th | PK: 2008-09 - 80.6%, 18th

Under Q, the PK's either been amazing or terrible and the PP's usually been middle-of-the-pack/bad or outstanding.

EDIT: And in 4 of the past 5 years, the PK/PP have alternated being amazing-bad/terrible.

 

[HockeySauce]

Our PP has been a work in progress for quite a while. This season their system has changed mainly with their movement in the ops zone - it is much, much better .... and their entry is pretty good too.

The entries were never a problem last year, and they still don't move around much. There's two large differences on the PP, but you haven't seen them based on your post.

 

[CertainAffinity*]

For discussion sake I'd take both over Bickell. Just saying.

We may have overpaid a tad for Bickell, but we still paid less than what the open market would have.

Part of it is the fact that he had a great playoffs, but the other more pressing issue is the fact that this team needed a power-forward that could play a physical game in the playoffs. Not a goon, but a forward that could put up points while also creating space for our top players.

We don't have that. Hossa, even when he can stay healthy, isn't that, and he's the closest we have to a power forward. Saad isn't that either yet. We can either try and force these guys to be something they're not and limit their effectiveness, or we can pay a slight premium for a guy who fills that role naturally.

Even if Bickell never reaches quite the heights he did in the 2013 playoffs, it was still a role/job/asset that this team needed, and power forwards are *shock* hard to get. So lock down the one you can, especially at a hometown discount.

 

[CertainAffinity*]

The entries were never a problem last year, and they still don't move around much. There's two large differences on the PP, but you haven't seen them based on your post.

Honestly I think the biggest difference is that we're actually getting traffic to the net. I don't know if that's one of the two you're referencing.

Oh, we're also not going for that ******* back-door play on every. single. ****ing. PP.

 

[HockeySauce]

Honestly I think the biggest difference is that we're actually getting traffic to the net. I don't know if that's one of the two you're referencing.

Oh, we're also not going for that ******* back-door play on every. single. ****ing. PP.

1. The Hawks have switched the PP units around. Last year, Kane and Toews were always seperated. The units were: Shaw-Toews-Hossa, Keith-Seabrook; Saad-Bolland/Handzus-Kane, Leddy-Sharp. This year, they've been together, and the units have been: Shaw-Toews-Kane, Keith-Sharp; Saad-Pirri/Versteeg-Hossa, Leddy-Seabrook.

2. The Hawks have employed an effective umbrella this year. Something they rarely, if ever, used last year. That allows for Kane to have more room to operate from the right boards, as well as more seams for him to get passes through. That obviously applies to all players. And then, when they do shoot it from the point - with one-timers no less, again, something we rarely saw last year - because opposing players have to respect Kane/Hossa/Toews on the boards, Sharp's shots have been getting through frequently and rather easily, with Shaw screening the goalie like he should.

 

[LandofLincoln*]

They paid Bickell for his potential. Don't see him ever consistently playing to it. Just my take, but Versteeg with Shaw and Frolik makes more sense than having Bickell on it.

Willing to give Bickell a shot to see if he goes bananas in the playoffs again, but I have serious reservations about him doing so.

Well lets make you the coach figuaratively speaking. You have to decide to fill out your first line. LW Toews Hossa

1. Sharp
2. Saad
3. Bickell or Versteeg

I don't think he can consistently play to his 4m contract if he has a 25% chance of being on the top line during the regular season.

Bickell can score his 20G a season and he earns his 4m salary. Putting him on the first line is something Q probably opts for in a playoff series. If we catch St. Louis, Los Angeles, Pittsburgh or Boston Bickell is a guy you have to have taking shifts on the first line.

Sure they paid Bickell for potential, but also his presence even if he doesn't score he is effective, clearing him out of the crease will allow Hossa or Toews to get greasy playoff type goals.

 

[LandofLincoln*]

Regular season I would take this order 1. Versteeg, 2. Bickell, 3. Frolik


Playoffs I want this order 1. Bickell, 2. Versteeg 3. Frolik

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Regular season I would take this order 1. Versteeg, 2. Bickell, 3. Frolik


Playoffs I want this order 1. Bickell, 2. Versteeg 3. Frolik

Regular season I'd take Bickell last, especially when factoring in his new contract. I think in a third line role Frolik gives you roughly the same 15/20 output while playing big minutes on the PK.

It all boils down to the playoffs for Bickell. If he's just lazy and gets it going for the games that matter most then hey, I'll take another a playoff beast for four million. Still to be seen if he is that guy though.