News Article: Friedman's 31 Thoughts: Habs Draft, Pacioretty, Jack Johnson & Mark Hunter

[417]

It's easier to teach a player something if they aren't completely outclassed. Getting lit up game after game is a terrible way to develop someone. Even if the coach isn't benching you, your confidence will be shot.

I don't think this is a hard rule...some players do develop just fine from being challenged and exposed to difficult situation. It helps them learn and grow (see Charlie MacAvoy this year).

While others, like you say, wilt in the face of pressure.

Up to the teams to identify which of their kids falls into which category.

The one's who need to be challenged, or the ones who need to be coddled.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Tavares is also very good friends with Subban and we've had multiple reports from the insiders saying that Montreal isn't a likely destination for Tavares, he wants to win, and he doesn't love the media spotlight.

 

[Laurentide]

It's easier to teach a player something if they aren't completely outclassed. Getting lit up game after game is a terrible way to develop someone. Even if the coach isn't benching you, your confidence will be shot.

If a player is too fragile to be demoted to the farm and too fragile to play anything other than easy minutes against an opponent's third or fourth line then maybe he's not cut out to be an NHL hockey player and should find another line of work to pursue. And if I'm in management I want to know about this sooner rather than later.

 

[Laurentide]

Tavares is also very good friends with Subban and we've had multiple reports from the insiders saying that Montreal isn't a likely destination for Tavares, he wants to win, and he doesn't love the media spotlight.

Ah yes but what's the point of Tavares signing with the Preds in order to play with his good buddy Subban if the Preds are just going to turn around and get rid of PK in order to afford JT's contract?

 

[waffledave]

I and many others said that 12 months ago. It's not rocket science. It's our only hope to land Tavares. Now, can't wait for people to think this is what I think we will be doing for sure. It's called option A, then you go to option B when/if Tavares signs somewhere else.

"We Can't Mentality" is for losers. You lose every signal time cause you don't even try

We are already losers. Being in the position where we desperately need Tavares to save this joke of a franchise means we are losers no matter what. Because as much as we need him, we also need so much more. Tavares wants to win, and if he couldn't make the Islanders contenders what makes you think he will do that here? We are far worse than they are.

 

[Habs Halifax]

We are already losers. Being in the position where we desperately need Tavares to save this joke of a franchise means we are losers no matter what. Because as much as we need him, we also need so much more. Tavares wants to win, and if he couldn't make the Islanders contenders what makes you think he will do that here? We are far worse than they are.

I disagree we are far worse than the Islanders.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

I want Boqvist ( the next subban mixed with Karlsson) or Kotka. if he picks Zadina im happy too, but if he picks an other random player I will be so freaking pissed off.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

I mean Juulsen is a 5-6th D at best

But yeah not all concussions are listed but still , Boqvist is known to have 2 major one already and hes only 18.
Juulsen was also injured alot also.

I see him drafted around 8-11 tbh.

Juulsen a 6th D ? get out of here lol you clearly never watched him play in Laval or at the end of the season

 

[Sorinth]

I don't think this is a hard rule...some players do develop just fine from being challenged and exposed to difficult situation. It helps them learn and grow (see Charlie MacAvoy this year).

While others, like you say, wilt in the face of pressure.

Up to the teams to identify which of their kids falls into which category.

The one's who need to be challenged, or the ones who need to be coddled.

Sure guys like MacAvoy or Subban are good enough from day 1 to go up against the top players. But let's not pretend that's the normal situation, most players need a more sheltered role to start with.

Also let's not pretend like they'll never face difficult situations just because they aren't on the top shutdown pairing. But there's a difference between facing Crosby for 20 minutes a game and facing him for 3-4 minutes.

You start off by sheltering a player, and as he gets better/more comfortable you progressively give him more responsibility and harder matchups.

 

[Sorinth]

If a player is too fragile to be demoted to the farm and too fragile to play anything other than easy minutes against an opponent's third or fourth line then maybe he's not cut out to be an NHL hockey player and should find another line of work to pursue. And if I'm in management I want to know about this sooner rather than later.

Well Eller didn't handle being demoted to third line in favour of Desharnais particularly well. He couldn't handle being jerked around and played like crap for quite some time because he wasn't mentally strong enough to handle that kind of demotion. Is he not cut out to be an NHL player, because his SC ring say otherwise.

 

[Laurentide]

Well Eller didn't handle being demoted to third line in favour of Desharnais particularly well. He couldn't handle being jerked around and played like crap for quite some time because he wasn't mentally strong enough to handle that kind of demotion. Is he not cut out to be an NHL player, because his SC ring say otherwise.

He played like crap because like any other third line caliber player he is inconsistent. As a Hab, Eller was never consistently bad or good. He went up and down, just like he has with the Caps. Last season he was meh. This season he was a playoff beast. It's what third liners do: their play fluctuates.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Oh cmon u sound like a fan of Bergevin

Hes 36 , hes slow , bad and washed up.

Stop selling me that Leadership experience its such bull****
Andrew Shaw , Alzeimer , Weber , Ott all those ''leadership'' put this club in the basement of the league

Think about the future stop living in the past
ffs

I am thinking about the future. Signing veterans, playing them to up their value and selling them at the deadline is a very common and very effective rebuild method. Guys like Hartnell have value. He's useful in the locker room from a development perspective and if utilized effectively (since based on his performance last season, he's not done yet) he could have value as a rental.

None of those names relate to a Hartnell signing. Shaw costed good picks and a too generous salary. Alzner costed an even worse salary. Weber costed Subban and too much term (even if the negatives of the contract are generally overstated). Ott costed a pick and he was much worse than Hartnell is now.

Hartnell will cost a cheap one year deal. That's it. And the potential return on that deal is good.

And Bergevin's problem isn't that he values CHaracter and leadership. Its that he massively overvalues it.

Weber, Shaw and Alzner are NHL players. They just costed Montreal WAY too much.

 

[waffledave]

I disagree we are far worse than the Islanders.

We have nothing even remotely close to a Barzal. They have many talented forwards and they all outmatch the guys we currently have. Their D is crap but ours is worse.

We have better goaltending but that doesn't mean shit with the dumpster fire defense we have.

 

[417]

Sure guys like MacAvoy or Subban are good enough from day 1 to go up against the top players. But let's not pretend that's the normal situation, most players need a more sheltered role to start with.

Also let's not pretend like they'll never face difficult situations just because they aren't on the top shutdown pairing. But there's a difference between facing Crosby for 20 minutes a game and facing him for 3-4 minutes.

You start off by sheltering a player, and as he gets better/more comfortable you progressively give him more responsibility and harder matchups.

I understand that...but again, I think in this day and age, this is becoming less and less of a concern for teams.

Young players are making more of an impact, at an earlier age.

 

[BeliveauFan4ever]

I want Boqvist ( the next subban mixed with Karlsson) or Kotka. if he picks Zadina im happy too, but if he picks an other random player I will be so freaking pissed off.

Like I was when Petr Svoboda was taken 5th OA, out of nowhere. Good times.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

So one weeks its stock pile picks and rebuild, the next week its Tavares, Patio Ready and Johnson.

i wont hazard a guess what the actual plan is, frankly i dont think there is one.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I am thinking about the future. Signing veterans, playing them to up their value and selling them at the deadline is a very common and very effective rebuild method. Guys like Hartnell have value. He's useful in the locker room from a development perspective and if utilized effectively (since based on his performance last season, he's not done yet) he could have value as a rental.

None of those names relate to a Hartnell signing. Shaw costed good picks and a too generous salary. Alzner costed an even worse salary. Weber costed Subban and too much term (even if the negatives of the contract are generally overstated). Ott costed a pick and he was much worse than Hartnell is now.

Hartnell will cost a cheap one year deal. That's it. And the potential return on that deal is good.

And Bergevin's problem isn't that he values CHaracter and leadership. Its that he massively overvalues it.

Weber, Shaw and Alzner are NHL players. They just costed Montreal WAY too much.

If you want to sign veterans to trade them at the deadline atleast pick something decent to trade
I dont think Hartnell is worth anything man

 

[Habs Halifax]

We have nothing even remotely close to a Barzal. They have many talented forwards and they all outmatch the guys we currently have. Their D is crap but ours is worse.

We have better goaltending but that doesn't mean **** with the dumpster fire defense we have.

We have the better Goalie and top paring defenseman. Drouin, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Patch (if he stays), Mete, Juulsen, Lehkonen, Scherbak are solid assets. We have pretty much all assets signed to term and plenty of cap space.

 

[Laurentide]

So one weeks its stock pile picks and rebuild, the next week its Tavares, Patio Ready and Johnson.

i wont hazard a guess what the actual plan is, frankly i dont think there is one.

The plan is to go all in on Tavares. If that doesn't work, then rebuild.

 

[Sorinth]

I understand that...but again, I think in this day and age, this is becoming less and less of a concern for teams.

Young players are making more of an impact, at an earlier age.

Well previously teams would care about young players learning their place, and respecting veteran's who'd been there for a long time, etc... So even if the young guys were the better player they wouldn't get the ice-time they would deserve if it was a true meritocracy. Which was pretty dumb thing to do all.

 

[Price is Wright]

Then confirmed sightings this weekend of John T and Weber at the Grand Prix Montreal....

It was one guy on Reddit and he couldn't come up with a photo. Nobody else in media at the grand prix saw them.

But don't lose hope I guess.

 

[Laurentide]

Well previously teams would care about young players learning their place, and respecting veteran's who'd been there for a long time, etc... So even if the young guys were the better player they wouldn't get the ice-time they would deserve if it was a true meritocracy. Which was pretty dumb thing to do all.

It's about "rispeck".

 

[Captain Mountain]

If you want to sign veterans to trade them at the deadline atleast pick something decent to trade
I dont think Hartnell is worth anything man

That's different, but that's your opinion. His underlying numbers are still good and when used effectively, he's got a ton of value. A big part of looking for one year vets is trying to predict who has the most left in the tank and who you can upsell the most. Hartnell isn't necessarily my first choice since mobility is the buzzword ATM, but he'll be cheap, his underlying numbers are strong and he meets the Character/Leadership criteria too.

Who's your 1 mil 1 yr vet choice?

 

[scrubadam]

It was one guy on Reddit and he couldn't come up with a photo. Nobody else in media at the grand prix saw them.

But don't lose hope I guess.

JT being at GP doesn't mean anything anyways. Its a huge event so no reason why not for JT to make a stop over in MTL to watch the GP if he is a fan of F1.

Players are human too they might want to take in GP weekend or Just for Laughs or the Jazz Fest. You don't have to be from Montreal to see these events, its why they bring in so much tourist money.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

His play in the last 3 seasons is very reminiscent of a bottom pairing D, though.

He pretty much lost the scoring touch he once had, and while he tried to compensate in his own zone, where his play always was dubious, it still didn't get that much better.

Like waffledave said, he's nearing the PTO territory, fast.

Never suggested long term contract. He could be a stop gap.

For what it's worth, I think he's bounce back as a top 4.