Sportsnet: Friedman: "You can see he's unhappy, and you can see he and Dubas have different philosophies"

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PromisedLand

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On the 31 thoughts podcast, Friedman talked further about the Dubas/Babcock stuff.

Said for personal reasons, he finds it hard to criticize Babcock, but you can see he's unhappy and that he and Dubas have different philosophies. And while different philosophies can be a good thing, it's creating disagreements that is creating cracks.

Marek asked on a scale of 1-10, how serious is this getting, Friedman didn't really answer but says it is creeping up every day

Friedman says Dubas wants to win a certain way, and Babcock may not believe in it. Dubas believes the premium is skill, and no matter how minimal the improvement is, if there is an improvement on a skill basis, they are going to do it, even if it costs "grit" and "toughness" or a role player. (See, Petan for Lindholm)

Friedman said he asked Babcock about going to the Finals in 2003 with 6 LHD with the Ducks, and Babcock said it's too fast of a game now to expect players to play their offside.

Friedman said while Babcock doesn't believe in fighting necessarily, he still believes in grinding other players down, while Dubas thinks skill trumps everything.

Friedman says that Babcock, he says it a lot that you only have so many chances, and you can tell, that, for whatever reason, maybe it's the Sheldon Keefe extension coming, that even if there is 4 years left on his deal, that Babcock isn't sure how much shelf life he has left, which is why he's been calling out the composition of the team lately, trying to change the tone, essentially being political, so if things go south, it's a composition issue, not a coaching issue.

Friedman ended things by saying that since the Tavares-Islanders game, things have been very tense, and it's a question worth asking of whether a separation may happen.


Dubas is a MORON. Guy never played hockey, and he thinks he knows hockey.

Look at the teams that won the cups every team had a role player. This dumbass has already given out inflated contracts with short terms and now he wants to be the coach too?

Shanny you made all the right calls except the GM; Hunter was probably a better choice. This JOKE of a GM bendsover of RFAs. he let one hold out and then bent over; said "our defense is deeper and better than you think"

lets not kid ourselves here.

Between Dubas and Babcock if I had to choose; the choice is very easy
 

Bomber0104

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The Detoit team had arguably the best forward and D man in the game...The international victories were plainly stacked with the most skilled players they could find...Babcock loses the
'talent argument' hands down. None of that hardware is or was because of Babcock !

Yet if he lost in any of these, I'm sure that'd be the peanut gallery's #1 reason why he hasn't "adapted".

Fortunately all 3 of his big stage international events resulted in 1st prize!
 

hamzarocks

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Honestly hope ownership does not let things go south. If the leafs fail this offseason I say blame the players. Trade 2 from kadri, nylander, kapanen, Johnsson, and get back a top pair rhd and a top 6 gritty winger. Guve dubas and the rest if the managment team a chance to address our most obvious issues and give Babcock a opp with the new players brought in and see if his system (breakout) can improve after smith is hopefully gone. If the leafs fail to win a round in 2020, then MLSE has to step in and clean house. Fire Shanny, Babcock, Dubas, and the Assitant GMs.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

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I’m trying to say I’m very skeptical of the path he has chosen and think he should branch out of the SSM bubble. Especially with who he hired.

Hollowell is an overager in the OHL. He’s a nothing prospect. Sandin is nice, but so was Dermott, Bracco and Grundstron. SDA and Durzi were terrible picks.

I’d say Marner over Hanifin is a much bigger thing than Sandin at this point.
I'm sure you would, but I think finding a great player at 29 is harder than finding one at 4 in one of the best drafts ever
 
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Hunter368

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If true, a big if true.......IMO both have their good qualities/faults & opinions. They need to park their egos (both have egos), be professionals and see the positives each brings for the betterment of the team.
 
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93LEAFS

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I'm sure you would, but I think finding a great player at 29 is harder than finding one at 4 in one of the best drafts ever
Except most scouts had Hanifin at 3.

Again. Also don’t count your chickens before they hatch. Sandin is a very promising prospect. That’s far from a great player.
 

hector morrison

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Yet if he lost in any of these, I'm sure that'd be the peanut gallery's #1 reason why he hasn't "adapted".

Fortunately all 3 of his big stage international events resulted in 1st prize!
He no doubt would be a part of the blame...but that would require watching/assessing his in game strategies....which are lacking as a TML head coach...imho!
 

Superstar

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Yeah, and it’s lipservice.

Yep..."we can and we will" has turned into overpayments on shorter term deals than expected...Matthews' contract will end before Tavare's, and he's going to have to pay up big time for Marner only to sign him for maybe 4 years...it's quite disingenuous.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

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Except most scouts had Hanifin at 3.

Again. Also don’t count your chickens before they hatch. Sandin is a very promising prospect. That’s far from a great player.
Oh so it's too early to say he's great, but not too early to say Dubas destroyed our scouting department? All I'm saying is he's having a better d+1 season than anyone Hunter got outside of the top 10, and looks like a better prospect too
 
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57 Years No Cup

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Babcock's philosophy has won him a Cup and Olympic Golds.

Dubas' philosophy has won him an AHL title.

Tough call here.
Lol. Cup with a stacked team 11 years ago and Gold when?

Old news.

Now that I've said that, I think we have an idiot for a GM and an idiot for a coach. Shanny needs to step in, hire Yzerman as GM and let him hire his own coach. ASAP.
 

93LEAFS

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Oh so it's too early to say he's great, but not too early to say Dubas destroyed our scouting department? All I'm saying is he's having a better d+1 season than anyone Hunter got outside of the top 10, and looks like a better prospect too
I think his hires are really questionable and all of them happened post Sandin. I mean, he brought back Dave Morrison into a position of power, but more shield to put Clark in power. Mainly because no big or respected scout souls have accepted that position knowing Wes Clark was being given all the power.

He’s also picked higher than everyone of Hunters non-top 10 picks but Liljegren.
 
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Willchel Marlynder

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Babcock's philosophy has won him a Cup and Olympic Golds.

Dubas' philosophy has won him an AHL title.

Tough call here.

What did Babcock win at age 32?

Team Canada is stacked to the moon and back. So while impressive that he won, there's a handful of coaches that if you put in that position would also have success.
 

Bomber0104

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Lol. Cup with a stacked team 11 years ago and Gold when?

Old news.

Now that I've said that, I think we have an idiot for a GM and an idiot for a coach. Shanny needs to step in, hire Yzerman as GM and let him hire his own coach. ASAP.

2016 (World Cup*), 2012, 2008..

Cleaning house may ultimately be necessary but it's a real pity considering we once had an extremely talented and workable team of Shanahan, Lou, Lemaire, Hunter, Dubas, and Babcock. Scary place to be in when the two least experienced members are the last ones standing with a capped out team and no Cups.

They should not be able to rebuild after botching the first one should it come to that.
 

DarkKnight

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Friedman is just chumming the waters. Really doesn't know jack.

If there isn't heated discussions and differing opinions I'd be more worried about ultimate success.
 
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Nalens Oga

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The reason I don't listen to the 31 Thoughts Podcast is that it's 80% speculation and 20% factual information, but Friedman tries to pass it off as truth.

Like I'm sure there's some friction but Friedman is speaking in so much detail as if he's in these conversations when let's be honest, he's making shit up.
 

93LEAFS

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Lol. Cup with a stacked team 11 years ago and Gold when?

Old news.

Now that I've said that, I think we have an idiot for a GM and an idiot for a coach. Shanny needs to step in, hire Yzerman as GM and let him hire his own coach. ASAP.
Yzerman won’t go anywhere but Detroit. He wants to be close to his family and has already made significant money. He was already spending significant time in Detroit when he could with Tampa. To a point it became untenable. Plus, it’s hard to build a great organization twice.
 

93LEAFS

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What did Babcock win at age 32?

Team Canada is stacked to the moon and back. So while impressive that he won, there's a handful of coaches that if you put in that position would also have success.
And Pat Quinn and Crawford and others haven’t or didn’t repeat. He’s undefeated at best on best in 3 tourneys. That’s pretty impressive.
 
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DarkKnight

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I think his hires are really questionable and all of them happened post Sandin. I mean, he brought back Dave Morrison into a position of power, but more shield to put Clark in power. Mainly because no big or respected scout souls have accepted that position knowing Wes Clark was being given all the power.

He’s also picked higher than everyone of Hunters non-top 10 picks but Liljegren.
Morrison was a head scratcher, but successive GM's keep him around, so.
 

hamzarocks

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I'd fire all our coaches, scouts, managers ( dubas and his assitants), if it meant we could have Yzerman. Yzerman turned the bolts from a joke to a insane organization with elite nhl and ahl talent. Imagine yzerman and his scouts being able to churn out kucherov, point superstars in the late rounds.
 

stickty111

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Except most scouts had Hanifin at 3.

Again. Also don’t count your chickens before they hatch. Sandin is a very promising prospect. That’s far from a great player.
Your agenda is clear. You were calling Scott a great pick despite him not even appearing in the AHL yet, but your calling Sandin "a promising prospect" only?
So yeah, don't count your chickens before they hatch.
 
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