News Article: Friedman: Shanahan's Coach Not (Currently) Available

Al14

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Jul 13, 2007
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I guess it just makes too much sense to keep Carlyle short term if the head coach you really want isn't currently available.

Why hire a head coach, only to fire him shortly thereafter, when the coach of your dreams becomes available.

Seems to me that it sounds very much like Babcock is the head coach Shanahan has targeted. His contract with Detroit ends after next season. I don't think he's been offered an extension as yet. He may have even said he didn't want or expect one???
 

Cor

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Jun 24, 2012
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I think Babcock and the Wings have agreed to part ways after next season.

There is a reason they blocked Jeff Blashill from being a Head Coach elsewhere in the NHL.
 

Duke Silver

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Jun 4, 2008
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Advanced stats say were the worst team in the NHL during the 2013-14 regular season. Were the worst team in terms of Corsi, Fenwick, shots against etc. The fact that we finished as the 23rd worst team instead of 30th is an over achievement.

No, advanced stats say we were the worst possession team in the NHL during the 2013-14 regular season.
 

ShaneFalco

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I guess it just makes too much sense to keep Carlyle short term if the head coach you really want isn't currently available.

Why hire a head coach, only to fire him shortly thereafter, when the coach of your dreams becomes available.

Seems to me that it sounds very much like Babcock is the head coach Shanahan has targeted. His contract, with Detroit, ends after next season. I don't think he's been offered an extension as yet. He may have even said he didn't want one???

I don't understand that theory at all. Keep a guy who completely failed here, whose systems don't work, who doesn't seem to have any kind of connection with his players, who plays the vets over the young guys etc etc for a shot at someone you may or may not get next year. Who may not even be available!?
Shannahan targeted Muller too and look how that worked out.
 

Stats01

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I don't understand that theory at all. Keep a guy who completely failed here, whose systems don't work, who doesn't seem to have any kind of connection with his players, who plays the vets over the young guys etc etc for a shot at someone you may or may not get next year. Who may not even be available!?

yes, it's happened before. Why in the world would you hire option #2 or #3 or even #4 if you haven't even tried for #1 yet. That is so dumb.

Carlyle is still a capable coach, we'll see how the off-season goes but you have to think a 2 year deal is nothing..it was a severance package for the future once he's let go.
 

Stats01

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I don't understand that theory at all. Keep a guy who completely failed here, whose systems don't work, who doesn't seem to have any kind of connection with his players, who plays the vets over the young guys etc etc for a shot at someone you may or may not get next year. Who may not even be available!?
Shannahan targeted Muller too and look how that worked out.

How do you know he targetted Muller.
 

Riellyfan04

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Feb 25, 2010
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Shanny talked to Babcock already and probably they both have a promise to join the leafs. and the reason shinny gave carlyle an extension is because he doesn't want the league to know him and babcock already have a plan ;) lol
 

Stephen

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Feb 28, 2002
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It's insane to think the Leafs are just wasting away a year or more of Carlyle, or another coach, just to wait for a coach that is currently employed. It makes no sense.

I can't imagine a respected executive thinking this way. If Shanahan is waiting for one guy to be his coach, then I seriously really question his hockey IQ.

If Carlyle isn't the right coach, get rid of him and search for that coach that will be the right one. Was Babcock not an up and coming coach at one point? Was Boudreau not toileting in the AHL for ever until a team thought he should get a chance, and now he's regarded as one of the best.

I can't seriously think Shanahan is thinking this way.

There are plenty of candidates out there that could be upgrades. Don't be lazy and do your job. They extended Carlyle, fine, but this better not be some sort of ploy to wait for a specific coach. You extended Carlyle because you think he's a good coach... and leave it at that. Don't let a coach annihilate players or fans just because this one coach may become available. **** that.

Why not? I see Shanahan taking over at a high executive position and he could potentially be taking the long view. If he sees himself as a Jimmy Devellano type builder who is here for 20 years, 1 year of interim head coaching isn't unreasonable.
 

Stats01

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Shanny talked to Babcock already and probably they both have a promise to join the leafs. and the reason shinny gave carlyle an extension is because he doesn't want the league to know him and babcock already have a plan ;) lol

He gave him a new deal because more than likely the guy he wants isn't available, you don't hire a brand new guy with a new system if a year from now the real guy you want will be available. It would look dumb. Carlyle can hold the fort for one more year before Babcock is a free agent.
 

Daisy Jane

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Jul 2, 2009
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How do you know he targetted Muller.

because there were reports (and Mueller confirmed) that he and Shanny talked, and Mueller wanted to work & learn with Hitchcock instead. (but said that Shanahan has a great vision for the leafs) :nod:
 

Schennanigans

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I didn't have an issue with Carlyle being extended. It's the same players still here I have a problem with. Players are the problem, not the coaching.
 

Stats01

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I didn't have an issue with Carlyle being extended. It's the same players still here I have a problem with. Players are the problem, not the coaching.

It's a mix of both. Carlyle's system was garbage, and the players just either didn't listen/didn't put in enough effort towards the game plan or they just weren't good enough to apply it well.
 

Warden of the North

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I don't understand that theory at all. Keep a guy who completely failed here, whose systems don't work, who doesn't seem to have any kind of connection with his players, who plays the vets over the young guys etc etc for a shot at someone you may or may not get next year. Who may not even be available!?
Shannahan targeted Muller too and look how that worked out.

The belief as I have understood it is that the conditions on Carlyle staying are that he change his system to fit the type of player he has to work with. Its also believed that his hand will be forced in the way of roster moves to look more favourably on kids with skill (IE Orr may be moved/waived etc)

If these things happen and the team improves, good. If not, he gets the can next summer.
 

leafs in five

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Feb 4, 2007
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Carlyle needed an extension because apparently you can't have a lame duck as a coach. now he is a coach with two years left on his deal that no one expects to be here after next season. at least he's not a lame duck.
 

Mess

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Feb 27, 2002
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The belief as I have understood it is that the conditions on Carlyle staying are that he change his system to fit the type of player he has to work with. Its also believed that his hand will be forced in the way of roster moves to look more favourably on kids with skill (IE Orr may be moved/waived etc)

If these things happen and the team improves, good. If not, he gets the can next summer.

Where did you read that BS?
 

ShaneFalco

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Perhaps from this: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...fs-down-and-rebuild/article18674088/?page=all

“I agree with many of the fans that… to be outshot that often, there’s something wrong,” Shanahan said of the Leafs terrible defensive track record, which saw them concede a league high 36 shots per game. “There are some things about the system that were identified where the message wasn’t getting through. That to me will be an important adjustment that needs to be made.

“I think that Randy is a talented coach and I think he – like a lot of our players – has to look in the mirror and figure out how they can all come back and be better. I think that’s part of any winning organization. That has to happen from everyone.”
 

Joey Hoser

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Jan 8, 2008
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Just to expand on what exactly was said regarding Carlyle and systems:

Q. Can you talk about the decision to keep Randy Carlyle? It’s been highly polarizing among the fan base – can you give us your reasons why that was the decision and not making a change.

“Well Dave and I talked about all of our options and we felt that was the best option going forward. The feedback I got from last year and maybe the last couple years was that the coaching staff, there needed to be some changes. So we discussed what changes we were going to make and what other options there were.

“At the end of the day, we felt that as a head coach, Randy is still a respected, talented head coach, but for whatever reason, the mix was not working and the message wasn’t necessarily [getting through] – not due to any one person’s fault.

“Sometimes the mix and the freshness of maybe some new people working with Randy and some different personalities, guys with different personalities from Randy, might complement what he is more. Our hope is that the success that he has had as a coach, he’s won a Stanley Cup, you look around at the different people are available, but Dave and I made the decision that Randy deserved [a shot] to give us the best chance to have success.”

Q. Is that a stylistic thing at all? Do you like the way the Leafs played?

I think there’s some changes [needed]. I think Randy also recognizes there are some changes to the system that need to occur. Specifically in our defensive zone. Whether the Leafs manage to get into the playoffs this year or not, I agree with many of the fans that – and I don’t think I’m saying anything shocking, it’s not a revelation – to be outshot that often, there’s something wrong.

“There are some things about the system that were identified, applications of who was on the bench and like I said the mix, where the message wasn’t getting through. That to me will be an important adjustment that needs to be made.”

Q. Have you talked to any of the players about that? Was that part of what informed you about what was happening with the assistants?

“Yeah. The players supported the coaching staff. I think a lot of them felt confused and not confident with the – there’s a defensive style they played I guess last year called The Swarm that has been successful with certain other teams and wasn’t successful here. That’s something that the players felt – I think with five games to go [the coaches] tried to switch to more traditional defensive zone coverage, but it was probably a little bit too late by then.

“So I think that Randy is a talented coach and I think he – like a lot of our players – has to look in the mirror and figure out how they can all come back and be better. I think that’s part of any winning organization. That has to happen from everyone at the end of the season. Even in successful seasons.”

Q. One of the things that raised a red flag is that Randy continually said he wasn’t sure what the problem was or how to fix it, and publicly there were mixed messages and confusion coming from the coaching staff. It didn’t seem like he was coming to the table with a lot of answers towards the end of the season.

“I think some of the things that are said in internal meetings are said a lot more clearly than some of the messaging to the media. I think there were maybe some unfortunate remarks over the course of the season but, look, to me the focus isn’t on words that were used. I can say that Randy, there are some things that frustrated him, and he and I met, and there were some things that as far as having a plan and wanting to follow through with the plan. I think he’s pretty clear on what he wants to do there.

“Right now we’re at a search for new assistant coaches. He’ll be a part of that. Dave and I will consult and be a part of that. And we’re hoping that we’ve got a mix that can enhance his coaching ability. I think he’s a good coach. I think he can be a good coach again.”
 

ShaneFalco

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Oh and from the same article:

“Sometimes the mix and the freshness of maybe some new people working with Randy and some different personalities, guys with different personalities from Randy, might complement what he is more. Our hope is that the success that he has had as a coach, he’s won a Stanley Cup, you look around at the different people are available, but Dave and I made the decision that Randy deserved [a shot] to give us the best chance to have success.”
 

Mess

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Feb 27, 2002
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Its been discussed on the radio a few times. I spend pretty much all day 8-5 flipping between the FAN or TSN radio.

Are you suggesting that since the Leafs are gifted offensively but a black hole defensively that Carlyle needs to play a system more like Ron Wilson pond hockey instead of a defensive system because of the current players preferred style? . That is what my impression was based on what you posted originally.

It appears from Carlyle's comments recently he wants more blocked shots by everyone, more diligent backchecking, and taking a hit to make a play to clear the zone is trying to get his team to defend better, and cut down on scoring changes against. It seems Carlyle is saying the right things that convinced Shanny to extend him and he will get his players to be more accountable away from the puck to get better results with this roster.

Shanahan's comments (posted above) about giving up too many shots against and by extension too many goals against is a sign of a problem and that players and the coach looking in the mirror to tighten up defensively.
 

ShaneFalco

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Jul 15, 2012
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From Nonis.....just to add to the confusion: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/puck-...-nonis-understand-his-own-team-233959925.html

The first notion seems at odds with the reality of Carlyle’s ineffectiveness as a coach in the last five years, in which his teams have been in the bottom six in shot differential. This season, the Leafs game up more shots than any other team.

“Yeah, it does concern me,” said Nonis. “That’s part of the discussion that we’ve had as a group already. We have to change the way we play, be more committed defensively. The players have to be more committed to play the system and the style that’s put in front of them.”
 

ShaneFalco

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Jul 15, 2012
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and a bit more from the same:

So essentially, the Leafs will spend the offseason finding assistant coaches that can implement new systems; finding players that will commit to playing those systems, even though the players currently on the roster that can't seem to commit to one all track back to Nonis and his predecessor; and putting all of it in the hands of a head coach whose system over the last five years has turned his own net into a carnival shooting gallery and who has shown an inability to keep his players committed to playing a system through 82 games.
 

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