News Article: Friedman: Shanahan's Coach Not (Currently) Available

[indigobuffalo]

[To MODS: Sorry if this was already discussed in a previous thread]

Here's the link to the full article.

Thursday, we learned two things about the Brendan Shanahan era in Toronto:

1) He is not going to do things solely because the fan base wants them done.

2) He wants someone to be his coach long-term, and that someone is not available.

If you spend any time on the interwebs, you know the team's fan base was unhappy with Shanahan's decision to extend Randy Carlyle...

Later in the article, Friedman speculates that Shanny's past experience with Detroit may suggest Mike Babcock, or Todd McLellan.

The Red Wings board has had threads in the recent past around the idea Babcock has started to run dry in Motown.

Also, there is this article, where Babcock had this leading statement:

"My daughter's going into her Grade 12 year; I'm either going to be the coach of the Red Wings ... or I'll be Red (Berenson's) assistant coach for a year (at Michigan)," Babcock said. "For sure I'm staying in Detroit. I haven't thought about going anywhere else."

I know it's not a Neon Light sign, but clearly Babcock, who only has one year left on his contract in Detroit, has family ties that make it easier to uproot to a new city in one year's time (when his daughter graduates highschool). Detroit is also very close to Toronto, so it's not a cross-country relocation.

Does anyone else think this is who Shanahan has in mind for the next coach of the Leafs? And if so, would it not make sense to try and bring in assistant coaches that Babcock will like?

Click to read more...

 

[Joey Hoser]

That's a lot easier to believe than the idea that Carlyle is the best guy for the job.

 

[Diatomic]

Makes sense. Don't really see why he (Carlyle) was given an extension though, false confidence in Carlyle? Would of been easier to let him burn off the year and let him go the next if that special coach Shanny wants is available, instead of firing him and paying another year's salary. But its MLSE, their made of money so, what do i Know

 

[SprDaVE]

It's insane to think the Leafs are just wasting away a year or more of Carlyle, or another coach, just to wait for a coach that is currently employed. It makes no sense.

I can't imagine a respected executive thinking this way. If Shanahan is waiting for one guy to be his coach, then I seriously really question his hockey IQ.

If Carlyle isn't the right coach, get rid of him and search for that coach that will be the right one. Was Babcock not an up and coming coach at one point? Was Boudreau not toileting in the AHL for ever until a team thought he should get a chance, and now he's regarded as one of the best.

I can't seriously think Shanahan is thinking this way.

There are plenty of candidates out there that could be upgrades. Don't be lazy and do your job. They extended Carlyle, fine, but this better not be some sort of ploy to wait for a specific coach. You extended Carlyle because you think he's a good coach... and leave it at that. Don't let a coach annihilate players or fans just because this one coach may become available. **** that.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Makes sense. Don't really see why he (Carlyle) was given an extension though, false confidence in Carlyle? Would of been easier to let him burn off the year and let him go the next if that special coach Shanny wants is available, instead of firing him and paying another year's salary. But its MLSE, their made of money so, what do i Know

Something about lame-duck years? I don't really get it, but fact of the matter is he could be fired in November so it's hard to care about.

 

[Joey Hoser]

It's insane to think the Leafs are just wasting away a year or more of Carlyle, or another coach, just to wait for a coach that is employed.

I can't imagine a respected executive thinking this way. If Shanahan is waiting for one guy to be his coach, then I seriously really question his hockey IQ.

If Carlyle isn't the right coach, get rid of him and search for that coach that will be the right one. Was Babcock not an up and coming coach at one point? Was Boudreau not toileting in the AHL for ever until a team thought he should get a chance, and now he's regarded as one of the best.

I can't seriously think Shanahan is thinking this way.

Is that worse than just taking one of the 3-5 guys who happen to be available at the time and calling him your guy?

 

[indigobuffalo]

Makes sense. Don't really see why he (Carlyle) was given an extension though, false confidence in Carlyle? Would of been easier to let him burn off the year and let him go the next if that special coach Shanny wants is available, instead of firing him and paying another year's salary. But its MLSE, their made of money so, what do i Know

It's considered good form for an organization (especially one like Toronto) to give coaches extensions even if the plan is to get rid of them earlier.

It's an unofficial severance package.

I'm quite sure that if Carlyle brings us to the ECF next year, it's also going to put him in a position of legitimately earning the right to keep his job.

Similarly to Ron Wilson's extension and firing.

 

[SprDaVE]

Is that worse than just taking one of the 3-5 guys who happen to be available at the time and calling him your guy?

It is. Much much worst. But there are a lot more then 3-5 available guys.

 

[Mess]

Carlyle is Shanny's interim coach during roster upheaval and then disposable once the dust settles.

He isn't going to bring in his new coach and then pull the rug out from underneath him by sending vets packing, that would be setting him up for failure.

 

[indigobuffalo]

It's insane to think the Leafs are just wasting away a year or more of Carlyle, or another coach, just to wait for a coach that is currently employed. It makes no sense.

I can't imagine a respected executive thinking this way. If Shanahan is waiting for one guy to be his coach, then I seriously really question his hockey IQ.

If Carlyle isn't the right coach, get rid of him and search for that coach that will be the right one. Was Babcock not an up and coming coach at one point? Was Boudreau not toileting in the AHL for ever until a team thought he should get a chance, and now he's regarded as one of the best.

I can't seriously think Shanahan is thinking this way.

There are plenty of candidates out there that could be upgrades. Don't be lazy and do your job. They extended Carlyle, fine, but this better not be some sort of ploy to wait for a specific coach. You extended Carlyle because you think he's a good coach... and leave it at that. Don't let a coach annihilate players or fans just because this one coach may become available. **** that.

Read Friedman's article, he extrapolates on what you're saying, but the Cliffs Notes version is that, basically, an executive only gets some many new coaches before he's run the clock out on his own job, so it gives Shanahan more time to settle in before actually being under the miscroscope.

Additionally, and more importantly, if Shanahan fires Carlyle, hires an interim coach, and then Babcock is available the next year, that's 3 coaches in 2 years.

It looks bad for the organization, and, similarly to all the moronic trade threads where fans just don't care about the human element of sports (which I can assure you, coaches and players certainly do care about it), it matters how the organization acts with regards to it's personnel and how it behaves ethically with regards to trades/hirings.

As much as I hate the Senators due to the rivalry, that is a classy organization.

They let so many front office people go the last few years (Chiarelli, Murray, etc.) and even when the "blew it up" and dealt a lot of their veterans like Mike Fisher, they sent them to the players' preferred destination, even if there were better offers elsewhere.

Players and coaches, and GMs, take note of those things, and it's an integral part of a team being able to buy into the team mantra, believing that the sum is greater than it's parts.

Something the Leafs sorely lack.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Carlyle is Shanny's interim coach during roster upheaval and then disposable once the dust settles.

He isn't going to bring in his new coach and then pull the rug out from underneath him by sending vets packing, that would be setting him up for failure.

Well said, Mess.

It makes even less sense to fire Carlyle to appease the fans, and hire another guy to keep the chair warm while Shanny waits for a guy he really wants.

Shanahan's clearly a smart guy, who knows how good organizations are run.

It's interesting that this runs against the grain of Leaf fans so much... we've been a disastrous organization for so long, people shun actually smart decision like Butthurt Dwellers shun the scorching rays of sunlight creeping in through their mothers' basement windows.

 

[SprDaVE]

Read Friedman's article, he extrapolates on what you're saying, but the Cliffs Notes version is that, basically, an executive only gets some many new coaches before he's run the clock out on his own job, so it gives Shanahan more time to settle in before actually being under the miscroscope.

Additionally, and more importantly, if Shanahan fires Carlyle, hires an interim coach, and then Babcock is available the next year, that's 3 coaches in 2 years.

It looks bad for the organization, and, similarly to all the moronic trade threads where fans just don't care about the human element of sports (which I can assure you, coaches and players certainly do care about it), it matters how the organization acts with regards to it's personnel and how it behaves ethically with regards to trades/hirings.

As much as I hate the Senators due to the rivalry, that is a classy organization.

They let so many front office people go the last few years (Chiarelli, Murray, etc.) and even when the "blew it up" and dealt a lot of their veterans like Mike Fisher, they sent them to the players' preferred destination, even if there were better offers elsewhere.

Players and coaches, and GMs, take note of those things, and it's an integral part of a team being able to buy into the team mantra, believing that the sum is greater than it's parts.

Something the Leafs sorely lack.

Ironically, the Senators went through a lot of coaches in a short period of time because they didn't work out. They basically went through almost a coach a year for 5 to 6 years before MacLean.

They didn't deliver and they couldn't bring the most out of players. They didn't extend a poor coach because the one they wanted wasn't available. They weren't doing their job to the fullest extent and finally found one through extensive searches.

A great executive doesn't keep a coach that isn't doing good because the guy he wants isn't available. A great executive sets out to basically find the find the best of what's available. The next Babcock is just right there to be found.

Now I can accept keeping Carlyle because they say he's the a good coach and that's what they've said. Fine, whatever. I just find it pretty insane and kamikaze-like to keep a coach simply because the one you want isn't available. You don't think he's good enough? Fire him. Simple. Very simple actually.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Ironically, the Senators went through a lot of coaches in a short period of time because they didn't work out. They basically went through almost a coach a year for 5 to 6 years before MacLean.

They didn't deliver and they couldn't bring the most out of players. They didn't wait for a coach, and extended a coach they thought was just not getting to the players and what ever they wanted to achieve. And now they seem to have found a coach that seems to be a great one.

A great executive doesn't keep a coach that isn't doing good because the guy he wants isn't available. A great executive sets out to basically find the find the best of what's available.

Now I can accept keeping Carlyle because they say he's the a good coach and that's what they've said. Fine, whatever. I just find it pretty insane and kamikaze-like to keep a coach simply because the one you want isn't available. You don't think he's good enough? Fire him. Simple. Very simple actually.

Gotta agree - with everything you said.
Makes no sense to wait for 'your guy' who may or may not become available, and may choose to go somewhere else
Heck Big Lou in NJ would go behind the bench himself if he had too

Firing RC isn't about appeasing the fans, it's about getting rid of a guy who was terrible and had no answers. Go with an interim if you have to.

How do we know Shannahan knows what he's doing and will be any better than what we've had in the past!? No track record

 

[pspot]

[To MODS: Sorry if this was already discussed in a previous thread]

Here's the link to the full article.



Later in the article, Friedman speculates that Shanny's past experience with Detroit may suggest Mike Babcock, or Todd McLellan.

The Red Wings board has had threads in the recent past around the idea Babcock has started to run dry in Motown.

Also, there is this article, where Babcock had this leading statement:



I know it's not a Neon Light sign, but clearly Babcock, who only has one year left on his contract in Detroit, has family ties that make it easier to uproot to a new city in one year's time (when his daughter graduates highschool). Detroit is also very close to Toronto, so it's not a cross-country relocation.

Does anyone else think this is who Shanahan has in mind for the next coach of the Leafs? And if so, would it not make sense to try and bring in assistant coaches that Babcock will like?

So will he build/rebuild the team under the vision/style of this other coach or Carlyle?

Does this suggest blowing it / rebuild more then compete now?

 

[Mess]

Well said, Mess.

It makes even less sense to fire Carlyle to appease the fans, and hire another guy to keep the chair warm while Shanny waits for a guy he really wants.

Shanahan's clearly a smart guy, who knows how good organizations are run.

It's interesting that this runs against the grain of Leaf fans so much... we've been a disastrous organization for so long, people shun actually smart decision like Butthurt Dwellers shun the scorching rays of sunlight creeping in through their mothers' basement windows.

I admire Shanny even more for not caving to public opinion and pressure for a coaching change and doing it his way.

It shows despite being new on the job that public pressure even in Toronto media frenzy market will not effect his decision making.

A coach can be replaced in a minutes notice should Shanny have his guy available and signed to come in. Firing Carlyle bring in a new coach but not Shanny's choice and then firing him shortly thereafter and replacing him reflects poorly on Brendan as being reactive and not someone that is in full control.

If I was about to take a machete to the Leafs roster and ship players out, I wouldn't want to expose my new coach to trying to win under the conditions of change and roster flux.. I think its actually promising that Carlyle is staying for now because he is already on borrowed time and if he fails to get success not one will care if he is fired down the road.

 

[ShaneFalco]

You admire Shanny for keeping Carlyle even though his team played like an expansion club defensively and he (RC) had absolutely no answers!? Shannahan even wants him to change his defensive style.

Doing it his way doesn't mean it's a good idea necessarily.
Either RC is right for the team or he isn't. Other teams fire the guy who isn't working out and go with an interim if they have to . The Leafs extend them

 

[pspot]

[To MODS: Sorry if this was already discussed in a previous thread]

Here's the link to the full article.



Later in the article, Friedman speculates that Shanny's past experience with Detroit may suggest Mike Babcock, or Todd McLellan.

The Red Wings board has had threads in the recent past around the idea Babcock has started to run dry in Motown.

Also, there is this article, where Babcock had this leading statement:



I know it's not a Neon Light sign, but clearly Babcock, who only has one year left on his contract in Detroit, has family ties that make it easier to uproot to a new city in one year's time (when his daughter graduates highschool). Detroit is also very close to Toronto, so it's not a cross-country relocation.

Does anyone else think this is who Shanahan has in mind for the next coach of the Leafs? And if so, would it not make sense to try and bring in assistant coaches that Babcock will like?

So will he build/rebuild the team under the vision/style of this other coach or Carlyle?

Does this suggest blowing it / rebuild more then compete now?

 

[ACC1224]

Makes sense. Don't really see why he (Carlyle) was given an extension though, false confidence in Carlyle? Would of been easier to let him burn off the year and let him go the next if that special coach Shanny wants is available, instead of firing him and paying another year's salary. But its MLSE, their made of money so, what do i Know

Perhaps Carlyle was made aware of this and the extension was part of it.

Although if the Leafs overachieve next year would they be able to fire Carlyle?

 

[ShaneFalco]

So will he build/rebuild the team under the vision/style of this other coach or Carlyle?

Does this suggest blowing it / rebuild more then compete now?

The fact that Shannahan indicated he wanted Bolland back and stands behind Phaneuf would suggest compete now

 

[pspot]

The fact that Shannahan indicated he wanted Bolland back and stands behind Phaneuf would suggest compete now

Confusing isn't it

 

[ShaneFalco]

And it Carlyle has a say in the assistant coaches, I guess the new guy is just.....stuck with what he gets!?

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, but it's hard to be optimistic these days. Shannahan or no Shannahan

 

[indigobuffalo]

Ironically, the Senators went through a lot of coaches in a short period of time because they didn't work out. They basically went through almost a coach a year for 5 to 6 years before MacLean.

They didn't deliver and they couldn't bring the most out of players. They didn't extend a poor coach because the one they wanted wasn't available. They weren't doing their job to the fullest extent and finally found one through extensive searches.

A great executive doesn't keep a coach that isn't doing good because the guy he wants isn't available. A great executive sets out to basically find the find the best of what's available. The next Babcock is just right there to be found.

Now I can accept keeping Carlyle because they say he's the a good coach and that's what they've said. Fine, whatever. I just find it pretty insane and kamikaze-like to keep a coach simply because the one you want isn't available. You don't think he's good enough? Fire him. Simple. Very simple actually.

Well basically we can agree by saying that Shanahan probably feels that Carlyle is the best coach of all the coaches currently available (and putting ethical behaviour ahead of "hoping to find that diamond in the rough"), and that the potential to bring in Babcock also outweighs the value of taking a risk on a new incumbent.

So it's not a stupid decision to keep Carlyle as interim.

 

[Mess]

You admire Shanny for keeping Carlyle even though his team played like an expansion club defensively and he (RC) had absolutely no answers!? Shannahan even wants him to change his defensive style.

Doing it his way doesn't mean it's a good idea necessarily.
Either RC is right for the team or he isn't. Other teams fire the guy who isn't working out and go with an interim if they have to . The Leafs extend them

If Shanny wants Carlyle to play the kids (Marlies) in prime development roles then you can't have a lame duck coach in a position to try and save his own job on an expiring contract..

If you extend the coach with the understanding that those are the expectations win or lose and the coach has a contract for the following year then shortsighted Win Now decision can be avoided.

I anticipate that Shanny plans on moving out small, soft weak defensive players and replace them with bigger , more physical players, turning the Leafs from a rush team to a puck possession team. Shanny isn't trying to get ultimate results with this roster now. So its not about RC being right for this team as it stands now.. We're talking new coach down the road when the roster is improved.

 

[thewave]

Sounds overall like, Randy we respect you and you have a year to prove you're still viable to a team after next year or you can retire. Plan now.

 

[Ramboshaw]

I didn't know Scotty Bowman wasn't available?
Getter done, Shanny.