News Article: Friedman: Shanahan's Coach Not (Currently) Available

[indigobuffalo]

The fact that Shannahan indicated he wanted Bolland back and stands behind Phaneuf would suggest compete now

Bolland is a young player with the experience of an ancient silverback.

How many times are you going to have a chance to get a competent, two-way, 2/3C with multiple Stanley Cups and Stanley Cup winning goal experience?

It's integral to have these types of guys in the organization. Shanahan recognizes it, so having Bolland is a no-brainer, but getting him at a cap cost that the team can work with, may not be as easy, but that can be sorted out too.

Phaneuf, like him or not, fills a gigantic hole that is, based on the current organizational structure, irreplaceable.

We don't have anyone on or off the roster in this organization, nor the assets to trade for one, that replaces what Phaneuf brings to the table if you trade him.

So unless Shanahan wanted to come in and have a team with 4 consecutive 1st OA draft picks, trading Phaneuf is a definite no-go. As much as fans may want a detonation to occur, Shanahan would not have been brought in for a tank job.

 

[pspot]

If Shanny wants Carlyle to play the kids (Marlies) in prime development roles then you can't have a lame duck coach in a position to try and save his own job on an expiring contract..

If you extend the coach with the understanding that those are the expectations win or lose and the coach has a contract for the following year then shortsighted Win Now decision can be avoided.

I anticipate that Shanny plans on moving out small, soft weak defensive players and replace them with bigger , more physical players, turning the Leafs from a rush team to a puck possession team. Shanny isn't trying to get ultimate results with this roster now. So its not about RC being right for this team as it stands now.. We're talking new coach down the road when the roster is improved.

some core players that would fit in to that small/soft weak defensive description

 

[Mess]

some core players that would fit in to that small/soft weak defensive description

Carlyle stated in his season ending PC that he "wants players to play big and physical and that does not mean just fighting" .. "He wants players that block shots, take a hit to make a play, aggressively forecheck and diligently backcheck and be a team that is hard to play against".

That sounds like a team that Shanny would like to see also and so Carlyle as his coach for now will do, as he moves out players that are not capable of fitting the style of play or system.

If Carlyle had more players capable of doing as he desires he might actually get more success on the ice. Ron Wilson's pond hockey players are not a good fit to play as the Team desires to be a puck possession team and control the puck and the clock better.

 

[indigobuffalo]

some core players that would fit in to that small/soft weak defensive description

There's definitely one too many words in your post, but if you're asking who those players would be, I can say it casts doubt on Kessel/Bozak staying with the club, Gunnarsson (though hard to say if the hip issue that's been on-again, off-again for two and a half years plays a big role in that), Kadri (though I think he can still grow into that role, and warrants further time), Lupul...

Not sure who else. Think it also makes a strong case for the Leafs to bring back Komarov.

IMO the top project on Shanahan's list will be moving out Joffrey Lupul.

It'll be the easiest to do while still being strong enough to send a message to the rest of the team.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Bolland is a young player with the experience of an ancient silverback.

How many times are you going to have a chance to get a competent, two-way, 2/3C with multiple Stanley Cups and Stanley Cup winning goal experience?

It's integral to have these types of guys in the organization. Shanahan recognizes it, so having Bolland is a no-brainer, but getting him at a cap cost that the team can work with, may not be as easy, but that can be sorted out too.

Phaneuf, like him or not, fills a gigantic hole that is, based on the current organizational structure, irreplaceable.

We don't have anyone on or off the roster in this organization, nor the assets to trade for one, that replaces what Phaneuf brings to the table if you trade him.

So unless Shanahan wanted to come in and have a team with 4 consecutive 1st OA draft picks, trading Phaneuf is a definite no-go. As much as fans may want a detonation to occur, Shanahan would not have been brought in for a tank job.

Bolland is an injury prone player who has never put up 50 points. Over the past 5 seasons he's played in just 62% of his team's games.
The Leafs traded (3 picks) for a player they should've known is likely to get at least $4.5 million - $5 million on a relatively long term deal. If that was going to be a problem, why acquire him?
The only way that trade looks even worse is if the Leafs overpay just to keep him around.

As for Phaneuf - Nonis said it himself: "If you're signing players because you don't have anyone to replace them you're making mistakes,"

 

[Cor]

So they are going to throw this upcoming season away in hopes Babcock will come here next summer?

Things have been getting worse and worse under Carlyle, and he has no idea, or answers of how to fix things. Chances are this trend will continue.

Also, teams will line up for Mike Babcock. Pittsburgh most likely will want him. Why would he come here instead of going to coach Crosby?

I just think it's foolish to put all your eggs in one guys basket.

If say, we finish bottom 5 again this season, get that top center (which there are 3 or 4 in next seasons draft) AND get Mike Babcock, then it worked.

 

[Diatomic]

Perhaps Carlyle was made aware of this and the extension was part of it.

Although if the Leafs overachieve next year would they be able to fire Carlyle?

Based on the statistics, this year was a huge over achievement alone and we finished as the 8th worst team in the NHL. If we could magically replicate something like that next year without collapsing and making the playoffs, lets just say it would be a miracle.

 

[indigobuffalo]

As for Phaneuf - Nonis said it himself: "If you're signing players because you don't have anyone to replace them you're making mistakes,"

The Leafs didn't sign him because they didn't have anyone to replace him, they signed him because they feel he is the right player for the job.

And that wasn't my point either. I was saying that it, if the organization felt Phaneuf wasn't the right guy, then they needed to get rid of him before taking on Shanahan. And Shanahan would've recognized this too, so he would not have come on-board if the team needed to unload a guy like Phaneuf.

I'm not disagreeing with what Nonis said, but it doesn't apply to my argument.

Clearly, the organization sees him as an answer, and not a problem. Focus your mental energies accordingly.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Makes sense. Don't really see why he (Carlyle) was given an extension though, false confidence in Carlyle? Would of been easier to let him burn off the year and let him go the next if that special coach Shanny wants is available, instead of firing him and paying another year's salary. But its MLSE, their made of money so, what do i Know

Everyone has such a close minded view of the extension.

The assistants he wanted back were fired.

The coach(es) they clearly want are unavailable.

Carlyle told them for him to come back under the conditions of him hiring their assistance coaches then he would need a 2 year extension to have some stability. They gave him 1 year with a team option for a 2nd.

If he gets fired there's likely a round amount set in his deal as severance for missing the year(s) left.

It does nothing to change the plan here other then the fact that the media would eat a lame duck coach with assistants that are not his alive in this market.

Not sure why it's even a topic of conversation here considering how irrelevant it is in the grand scheme of things, but focusing insane amounts of time on pointless topics are what drive this fan base for some reason.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Based on the statistics, this year was a huge over achievement alone and we finished as the 8th worst team in the NHL. If we could magically replicate something like that next year without collapsing and making the playoffs, lets just say it would be a miracle.

The statement you made is misleading.

The end result of the season was exactly (more or less) what the Adv Stats suggested should occur.

The only oddity was the extreme variance during the course of the season.

What you're trying to make the advanced stats say, is that the Leafs are in fact worse than they finished, apparently by a notable margin. Which is simply not true.

Furthermore, I think it's very interesting that people seem to trot out advanced stats with such aplomb without considering how relatively easy it might be to "fix" the team so that they produce advanced stats that are "good".

I think people assume that bad stats means multiple years of tanking required, blow it all up.

 

[Cor]

After finding out his whole staff was being fired, Carlyle said the only way he was coming back was if he got more term, so they added an extra guaranteed year on to his contract.

Nothing more then that. Had nothing to do with results. It was just to get him to come back.

 

[ShaneFalco]

We don't have anyone on or off the roster in this organization, nor the assets to trade for one, that replaces what Phaneuf brings to the table if you trade him.

Is what you said. All I pointed out was Nonis didn't sign him for that reason.
But like you said, I guess thye think he's part of the solution here.
The culture change continues!

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Makes sense,

I swear if this were another team, they would've canned Randy and brought in a interim.

I would have brought up Spott and let him know that he is interim until the end of next year; at which time we would reassess everyone.

That would leave us with the opportunity to instill fresh blood (Spott and his graduating AHLers) and leave an opening to move in whatever direction.

However, as it stands - we are looking to run even more stale with Randy. IMO he gets canned 2 months in anyway and Spott comes in as a Interim.


At the end of the day we get where we are at anyway; but I'd personally give Spott the reins from the get go.

 

[indigobuffalo]

So they are going to throw this upcoming season away in hopes Babcock will come here next summer?

Things have been getting worse and worse under Carlyle, and he has no idea, or answers of how to fix things. Chances are this trend will continue.

Also, teams will line up for Mike Babcock. Pittsburgh most likely will want him. Why would he come here instead of going to coach Crosby?

I just think it's foolish to put all your eggs in one guys basket.

If say, we finish bottom 5 again this season, get that top center (which there are 3 or 4 in next seasons draft) AND get Mike Babcock, then it worked.

We can bring this back up when the 2015-16 season starts and see if you were right.

 

[Mess]

The fact that Shannahan indicated he wanted Bolland back and stands behind Phaneuf would suggest compete now

Shanny wants character players, with leadership and playoff experience and success and at 27 is not an old player..

These are proven winner types that can be parts of winning teams. Bolland is the type of player that can support Dion in the leadership role. Bolland might even be the type of player that could potentially wear the C in the future even if Phaneuf was traded.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Everyone has such a close minded view of the extension.

The assistants he wanted back were fired.

The coach(es) they clearly want are unavailable.

Carlyle told them for him to come back under the conditions of him hiring their assistance coaches then he would need a 2 year extension to have some stability. They gave him 1 year with a team option for a 2nd.

If he gets fired there's likely a round amount set in his deal as severance for missing the year(s) left.

It does nothing to change the plan here other then the fact that the media would eat a lame duck coach with assistants that are not his alive in this market.

Not sure why it's even a topic of conversation here considering how irrelevant it is in the grand scheme of things, but focusing insane amounts of time on pointless topics are what drive this fan base for some reason.

And how do you know this? So if the leafs stumble out of the block, they fire Carlyle and then...... hire an interim until their guy becomes available!?
Skip the middle step. Keeping RC around after a disaster of a season isn't a pointless topic.
The decisions this organization makes over and over again are what drives the fan base crazy. Well some anyway.

 

[ACC1224]

Shanahan was quoted as saying he wanted "Bolland back"?

Backing Phanuef is what any Team exec would do publicly, whether he believes it or not.

 

[Diatomic]

The statement you made is misleading.

The end result of the season was exactly (more or less) what the Adv Stats suggested should occur.

The only oddity was the extreme variance during the course of the season.

What you're trying to make the advanced stats say, is that the Leafs are in fact worse than they finished, apparently by a notable margin. Which is simply not true.

Furthermore, I think it's very interesting that people seem to trot out advanced stats with such aplomb without considering how relatively easy it might be to "fix" the team so that they produce advanced stats that are "good".

I think people assume that bad stats means multiple years of tanking required, blow it all up.

Advanced stats say were the worst team in the NHL during the 2013-14 regular season. Were the worst team in terms of Corsi, Fenwick, shots against etc. The fact that we finished as the 23rd worst team instead of 30th is an over achievement.

 

[egd27]

The statement you made is misleading.

The end result of the season was exactly (more or less) what the Adv Stats suggested should occur.

The only oddity was the extreme variance during the course of the season.

What you're trying to make the advanced stats say, is that the Leafs are in fact worse than they finished, apparently by a notable margin. Which is simply not true.

Furthermore, I think it's very interesting that people seem to trot out advanced stats with such aplomb without considering how relatively easy it might be to "fix" the team so that they produce advanced stats that are "good".

I think people assume that bad stats means multiple years of tanking required, blow it all up.

Don't you just dump the bad corsi guys and replace them with good corsi guys?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Shanny wants character players, with leadership and playoff experience and success and at 27 is not an old player..

These are proven winner types that can be parts of winning teams. Bolland is the type of player that can support Dion in the leadership role. Bolland might even be the type of player that could potentially wear the C in the future even if Phaneuf was traded.

Tying up big money in Bolland doesn't make sense with Bozak making $4.2M and Kadri in line for a similar figure on his next contract in 2015. That's a lot of money invested up the middle without having even close to an elite center on the team.

But in typical Leafs fashion, they'll probably trade Kadri to re-sign Bolland

 

[Cor]

Ya know, I was just reading the comments, and it sorta shows how a complete mess this organization is

We have no identity, no clear direction, no clear management team other then Shanahan. Will Nonis be here long-term? Will Carlyle even last until christmas? There are rumblings Leiweke wants to leave sooner rather then later.

We went from taking the Boston Bruins to the edge of their playoff lives in Game 7, to back in the basement of the league and no reason to believe it will get any better, and when you look at the advanced stats, (and I am totally not an "advanced stat guy") there is actually significant reason to believe it will be worse next season.

Management is rumored to be talking about trading Nazem Kadri, Jake Gardiner, Dion Phaneuf, 3 players you would assume would be apart of our long-term plans.

Just craziness really.

 

[ShaneFalco]

We have no identity, no clear direction, no clear management team other then Shanahan. Will Nonis be here long-term? Will Carlyle even last until christmas? There are rumblings Leiweke wants to leave sooner rather then later.
.

So true!

 

[Mess]

Don't you just dump the bad corsi guys and replace them with good corsi guys?

If you want to turn on on the weakest defensive teams into one of the best that is certainly what one would do to cut 50 goals against.

This isn't solely about coaching here, and Carlyle has proven its not possible with this roster to do. So roster changes first and then new coach to direct them when your guy is available makes sense.

Carlyle might even find success with better 2-way players with size and puck possession abilities.

 

[Cor]

Getting rid of Franson alone would take away 50 goals against

(Sadly, I'm not even joking. It's true)

 

[Stats01]

It's insane to think the Leafs are just wasting away a year or more of Carlyle, or another coach, just to wait for a coach that is currently employed. It makes no sense.

I can't imagine a respected executive thinking this way. If Shanahan is waiting for one guy to be his coach, then I seriously really question his hockey IQ.

If Carlyle isn't the right coach, get rid of him and search for that coach that will be the right one. Was Babcock not an up and coming coach at one point? Was Boudreau not toileting in the AHL for ever until a team thought he should get a chance, and now he's regarded as one of the best.

I can't seriously think Shanahan is thinking this way.

There are plenty of candidates out there that could be upgrades. Don't be lazy and do your job. They extended Carlyle, fine, but this better not be some sort of ploy to wait for a specific coach. You extended Carlyle because you think he's a good coach... and leave it at that. Don't let a coach annihilate players or fans just because this one coach may become available. **** that.

They're not just wasting a year...if Shanny's guy isn't available it's better to have your current coach then to fire this one and hire someone that really isn't your top choice. If Babcock is Shanny's choice then they'll wait a year and go after him. Until then life moves on and we carry on with the off-season. You don't fire the coach and go after option #2 and #3 before you even had a chance at #1. Carlyle clearly isn't Shanny's guy at all.

Being lazy would be firing the coach and trying to quicken everything up by going after the best options at this time rather than the main guy you truly want.