Free Agents and Trade Thread - Offseason Part II

[kb]

It's all about the specific prospect and not villanizing player types... No to Nick Ritchie, but yes to Tom Wilson.

But what if Wilson tops out at a 4th line goon? That very well could have happened. He was drafted after scoring 9 goals in 49 games.

No one knew what he was going to be until he became what he was. And right now he's at home watching the playoff games like the rest of us.

 

[Antropovsky]

A lot of chatter that the Leafs could be offering some kind of package involving Liljegren, Johnsson and the 15th for Colton Parayko. I could get behind it in principle but I think Toronto would need a little more coming back.

Seems like a bad deal for St Louis on paper.... but more a medium risk, high reward.

Also im not sure of Parayko... i think he could end up being a bit of a phaneuf. Where someone has been hyped alot in his first few seasons but falls off the earth.

I mean if you have a 6'6, 230 lb RH defenseman....you usually don't trade them away at any cost

 

[kb]

Seems like a bad deal for St Louis on paper.... but more a medium risk, high reward.

Also im not sure of Parayko... i think he could end up being a bit of a phaneuf. Where someone has been hyped alot in his first few seasons but falls off the earth.

I mean if you have a 6'6, 230 lb RH defenseman....you usually don't trade them away at any cost

St Louis can't afford $21 million worth of RD.

 

[Stephen]

But what if Wilson tops out at a 4th line goon? That very well could have happened. He was drafted after scoring 9 goals in 49 games.

No one knew what he was going to be until he became what he was. And he's watching the playoff games like the rest of us.

For sure it's a risk, and maybe to mitigate that you'd only ever take a chance on a player of that type if you have multiple firsts or something like that, or you don't pick them till the 2nd.

I guess all I'm saying is the Burke era drafting resulted in a lot of dislike for certain player types like big checking forwards, grinders, defensive defensemen (which are useful), but if you never draft, sign or trade for them, you'll just never have them.

 

[Stephen]

Seems like a bad deal for St Louis on paper.... but more a medium risk, high reward.

Also im not sure of Parayko... i think he could end up being a bit of a phaneuf. Where someone has been hyped alot in his first few seasons but falls off the earth.

I mean if you have a 6'6, 230 lb RH defenseman....you usually don't trade them away at any cost

Yeah, that would be my hesitation as well. The package is quite significant and I don't know if Parayko is that significant of a defenseman despite the reputation. Dougie Hamilton was also rumored to be available for cap related reasons, and he has some question marks from his past too. Same size, doesn't address some of the purely defensive needs of the team but would likely be a pound for pound more talented defenseman.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Tyler Biggs laughs.

Let's not forget Burke traded up with Anaheim from 30th to 22nd in 2011 to select Biggs. The picks he gave up Anaheim used them to select Rickard Rakell 30th overall and John Gibson 39th overall.

 

[kb]

For sure it's a risk, and maybe to mitigate that you'd only ever take a chance on a player of that type if you have multiple firsts or something like that, or you don't pick them till the 2nd.

I guess all I'm saying is the Burke era drafting resulted in a lot of dislike for certain player types like big checking forwards, grinders, defensive defensemen (which are useful), but if you never draft, sign or trade for them, you'll just never have them.

I don't dislike those type of players. It's just if you look at where players like that are drafted, it's usually much lower. Lucic 3rd round, Benn 5th round, Anderson 4th round, etc. No issues at all taking a flyer on some of those types on occasion in the middle to lower rounds.

There are literally only a handful of those types anymore. The power forward is rapidly becoming extinct because they need to be able to play at a high level, and most can't. That is why there are so few, and you can't predict the ones that will be able to play at the highest level.

 

[Leafs1991]

if we save another 1.75 million and get another second then yes you do that trade all day IMO provided we can sign him.

Not for Brassard though of all players.

 

[kb]

Let's not forget Burke traded up with Anaheim from 30th to 22nd in 2011 to select Biggs. The picks he gave up Anaheim used them to select Rickard Rakell 30th overall and John Gibson 39th overall.

Yup. That is what gets away when you chase a "type".

 

[Walshy7]

Yup. That is what gets away when you chase a "type".

but burke had tunnel vision for the big pwf types so I highly doubt we would have drafted gibson and rakell. Most likely scenario is we are here talking about 2 busts instead of one bust

edit: I guess it would be 3 busts instead of 2 I forgot about Stuart Percy there too

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yup. That is what gets away when you chase a "type".

In Burke's defense who Anaheim selected with those picks wasn't going to be as obvious when Boston selected Tyler Seguin 2nd overall in 2010. Although the success of Rakell and Gibson makes trading up for Biggs even worse. Plus there was a report that Detroit would have selected Biggs 24th and it's why he made the trade, so it was after that when Detroit traded out of the 1st round.

 

[Stephen]

Yup. That is what gets away when you chase a "type".

I'm actually kind of curious why Biggs flamed out so completely and thoroughly the way he did. I saw him once live at the Ricoh Coliseum and he looked great. Skated well, hit, did all the things you'd think a young power forward in the making should be doing at the minor pro level (at least that one game). He even scored this goal which might be one of the few he ever scored at the AHL level:



Maybe just enough flashes for a junior scout to think there was something there. Or maybe he flamed out for other reasons. Who knows.

 

[Dreakmur]

St Louis can't afford $21 million worth of RD.

That Justin Faulk contract was sooooo bad.

 

[Big Muddy]

Toronto
Nylander
Andersen
2nd round pick

Carolina
Hamilton
Mrazek(1.5 retained)
Foegele
Geekie
Our first round pick back

Carolina might have interest in a goalie and maybe Andersen. But, that package seems kinda light.

 

[kb]

That Justin Faulk contract was sooooo bad.

Terrible. What were they thinking?

 

[Big Muddy]

Brassard is not really a legit 3C anymore. He is more of Spezza now... Passable bottom 6 RW who can still win draws and play on the 2nd PP. If you need a guy in a pinch, then he could be fine, but you would have to be pretty desperate to have him as a full-time 3C.

Delete. Thought you were talking about Brassard as a RW, but now think you were probably talking about Spezza.

 

[LeafsNation75]

That Justin Faulk contract was sooooo bad.

Maybe Doug Armstrong is getting a pass since the Blues won the Cup in 2019. However using the logic others said about Dubas signing John Tavares since he had to re-sign Matthews, Marner, and Nylander. He knew that Pietrangelo contract was coming up soon and he trades for Justin Faulk and then signs him to a 7 year contract extension worth $6.5 million AAV. So how is that any different then what Dubas was doing?

 

[dubplatepressure]

Yeah, that would be my hesitation as well. The package is quite significant and I don't know if Parayko is that significant of a defenseman despite the reputation. Dougie Hamilton was also rumored to be available for cap related reasons, and he has some question marks from his past too. Same size, doesn't address some of the purely defensive needs of the team but would likely be a pound for pound more talented defenseman.

He is. He's very good. Would be a fantastic compliment to our defense and is and should be among the top5 "reasonable" targets for us for good reason.

The reason why STL trades him is so they can prevent Pietrangelo from walking for free and get strong assets for the future out of Parayko who they won't extend. Once they make that call, this summer his value will likely be higher than next with another season played and 1 left on contract, so it makes more sense to eat it and trade him now.

As for the deal, I would so much rather give up ONE of Lilly / Sandin and the 15th that both.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Nylander and Dermott for Dumba + 9OA, or Nylander for Severson, Zacha/Wood, and 15OA?

Imagine either one of those land, and Andy + a 2nd or 3rd does end up going to CAL for Sam Bennett + Rittich + the 19th OA.

3 picks in the top 20, a legit C prospect, and a top4 RHD, in need of a goalie. We could still flip AJ, Lilly and the 19th OA to STL for Parayko. What a wild offseason that would be.

 

[Stephen]

He is. He's very good. Would be a fantastic compliment to our defense and is and should be among the top5 "reasonable" targets for us for good reason.

The reason why STL trades him is so they can prevent Pietrangelo from walking for free and get strong assets for the future out of Parayko who they won't extend. Once they make that call, this summer his value will likely be higher than next with another season played and 1 left on contract, so it makes more sense to eat it and trade him now.

As for the deal, I would so much rather give up ONE of Lilly / Sandin and the 15th that both.

Which raises the question, if St. Louis thinks they can be the team to sign Pietrangelo and pocket the Leafs package by moving the Parayko cap hit, why can't we keep our package and sign Pietrangelo?

 

[Stephen]

Maybe Doug Armstrong is getting a pass since the Blues won the Cup in 2019. However using the logic others said about Dubas signing John Tavares since he had to re-sign Matthews, Marner, and Nylander. He knew that Pietrangelo contract was coming up soon and he trades for Justin Faulk and then signs him to a 7 year contract extension worth $6.5 million AAV. So how is that any different then what Dubas was doing?

Maybe he was planning for life without Pietrangelo?

 

[dubplatepressure]

Which raises the question, if St. Louis thinks they can be the team to sign Pietrangelo and pocket the Leafs package by moving the Parayko cap hit, why can't we keep our package and sign Pietrangelo?

Because he extended with St Louis? Lol

 

[Leafs1991]

Nylander and Dermott for Dumba + 9OA, or Nylander for Severson, Zacha/Wood, and 15OA?

Imagine either one of those land, and Andy + a 2nd or 3rd does end up going to CAL for Sam Bennett + Rittich + the 19th OA.

3 picks in the top 20, a legit C prospect, and a top4 RHD, in need of a goalie. We could still flip AJ, Lilly and the 19th OA to STL for Parayko. What a wild offseason that would be.

I really like that 1st trade. The 2nd one I'd do if it is Wood comnig back. I really like him. That's tough giving up Nylander though but I think it would be worth it. I think that CGY would have happened by now if it had any weight behind it. I know there are reservations (supposedly) of Rittich but that shouldn't stop that trade. Maybe they are trying to flip him first before accepting the trade?

I'd be down for both those trades and then signing Markstrom if he manages to make it to FA

 

[Cappuccino]

Let's not forget Burke traded up with Anaheim from 30th to 22nd in 2011 to select Biggs. The picks he gave up Anaheim used them to select Rickard Rakell 30th overall and John Gibson 39th overall.

To make things a bit worse, who did Anaheim select in round 6 that year (with the Leafs pick) ?

And Demelo went even later that round.

 

[kb]

Dumba isn't what the Leafs need....at all.