GDT: Free Agent Frenzy

[Detroit Knights]

One contract does not set a precedent for an entire league. Copp's contract is way worse than a one year $7M deal to Tank who's currently rejecting $6M multi-year contracts, Not to mention Klingberg's $7M contract with the Ducks last season. NO TEAM is throwing out big bucks to Klingberg or anyone else just because he got overpaid for one year. And he was traded at the deadline with 50% retention.

So the Wings can do the same with Tank, sign him for one year at the money he wants. Then if the Wings aren't in the position to make the playoffs, trade him at 50% retention.

The reason why Tank fired his agent and hasn't signed is because he wants more money. Pay him what he wants, but just for a year then it buys both parties time to re-assess the cap situation next season. Rumor is that he's already got $6M offers, so what's the big deal about upping that by $1M, especially when Copp is being overpaid by at least that much per season on a 5 year contract?

NHL Rumors: Vladimir Tarasenko and Filip Zadina - NHL Rumors

New agents for Vladimir Tarasenko and his free agent situation. Could the Detroit Red Wings terminate Filip Zadina's contract?

nhlrumors.com

I agree and disagree all at the same time...lmao.

No, I don't think it truly sets precedence, but at the same time, when people are negotiating you always go high while the others go low. If someone is getting a 7mil contract, now people will start asking for 8mil and settle between 7-8. So that does have an effect.

If someone averages 50 points and tank averages 60 points getting 7 mil (just examples/hypothetical), then the 50 point player is going to negotiate higher than the 5 or so mil he should be getting. "well if a 60 point forward makes 7mil why can't I make 6.5mil?

This is obviously conjecture and I or you could be completely off base since we are not in the rooms, but it is interesting to think about. Klingberg screwed himself, but at the same time, I honestly don't think there was as big of a market as people think. He is a knock-off of Karlsson when it come to points, but he is worse at defense (or the same...they are just so bad at it). So, I think teams realized that and said we aren't going to pay 7+mil for a defenseman that can't play defense.

 

[Gniwder]

I agree and disagree all at the same time...lmao.

No, I don't think it truly sets precedence, but at the same time, when people are negotiating you always go high while the others go low. If someone is getting a 7mil contract, now people will start asking for 8mil and settle between 7-8. So that does have an effect.

If someone averages 50 points and tank averages 60 points getting 7 mil (just examples/hypothetical), then the 50 point player is going to negotiate higher than the 5 or so mil he should be getting. "well if a 60 point forward makes 7mil why can't I make 6.5mil?

This is obviously conjecture and I or you could be completely off base since we are not in the rooms, but it is interesting to think about. Klingberg screwed himself, but at the same time, I honestly don't think there was as big of a market as people think. He is a knock-off of Karlsson when it come to points, but he is worse at defense (or the same...they are just so bad at it). So, I think teams realized that and said we aren't going to pay 7+mil for a defenseman that can't play defense.

UFAs get overpaid all the time, look at Copp, Compher, and Chiarot. It;s the nature of the market.

Overpaying Tank by a mil for one year is NOT a big deal, besides, he's one season removed from being a point per game player, and look at what PLD got. So I'm not sure it's even an overpayment, it all depends on if last season was an anomaly or the start of a downtrend. That's why his ask is higher than what the market is willing to bear right now. One year deal makes sense for both.

 

[Henkka]

Player A
68 games, 18 goals, 32 assists = 50 points. (0.72 ppg) 16:48 ice-time.
Asking for 6-7 million.

Player B
66 games, 21 goals, 25 assists = 46 points. (0.70 ppg) 11:25 ice-time.
Signed for 2 million.

For the ice-time difference, you can use another player for 5:23 to score 10-15 extra points.

 

[Detroit Knights]

UFAs get overpaid all the time, look at Copp, Compher, and Chiarot. It;s the nature of the market.

Overpaying Tank by a mil for one year is NOT a big deal, besides, he's one season removed from being a point per game player, and look at what PLD got. So I'm not sure it's even an overpayment, it all depends on if last season was an anomaly or the start of a downtrend. That's why his ask is higher than what the market is willing to bear right now. One year deal makes sense for both.

compher was projected to get 5.5 or something AAV and he got 5.1.

To say he was overpaid right now is premature. Yeah, he won't be playing with the same stars he was playing with in colorado, but that doesn't mean his game hasn't been elevated. We just do not fully know.

I'm also semi biased because I wanted the wings to get him this year and have said as much around these boards. So maybe I'm clouded, but for 5 years at 5.1, his contract is going to seem meaningless in two years as the cap is going to dilute his contract like crazy.

That is why I think Stevie is sending out 3-5 year contracts with these types of cap hits. These AAV's are very manageable and can be traded to contenders if we just suck that badly. It's low risk high reward. Our salary cap is not in any danger while adding cup winners and players from playoff contenders. That experience is valuable and is priced into the AAV.

Chiarot...idk what to tell you. For what he is actually good at, yes he is overpaid. He should be our 3rd pair staple but at almost 5 mil its annoying; HOWEVER, he had a 4 year contract, so we could sell him off soon enough when Ed/ALJO/Wallinder make the jump. Say hello to chicago!

 

[Gniwder]

compher was projected to get 5.5 or something AAV and he got 5.1.

To say he was overpaid right now is premature. Yeah, he won't be playing with the same stars he was playing with in colorado, but that doesn't mean his game hasn't been elevated. We just do not fully know.

I'm also semi biased because I wanted the wings to get him this year and have said as much around these boards. So maybe I'm clouded, but for 5 years at 5.1, his contract is going to seem meaningless in two years as the cap is going to dilute his contract like crazy.

That is why I think Stevie is sending out 3-5 year contracts with these types of cap hits. These AAV's are very manageable and can be traded to contenders if we just suck that badly. It's low risk high reward. Our salary cap is not in any danger while adding cup winners and players from playoff contenders. That experience is valuable and is priced into the AAV.

Chiarot...idk what to tell you. For what he is actually good at, yes he is overpaid. He should be our 3rd pair staple but at almost 5 mil its annoying; HOWEVER, he had a 4 year contract, so we could sell him off soon enough when Ed/ALJO/Wallinder make the jump. Say hello to chicago!

OK, let's ignore Compher's contract....

I still dunno why "overpaying" Tank for one year is a big deal. I'm not even sure $7M is overpayment, he could wind up playing over that contract. I'd go as high as $8M, but that would mean trading or burying someone. Tank could very well go 1 PPG in the right situation.

The team has cap space, they should use it. If anything to break the playoff drought streak. If they don't make the playoffs this season, they're tied for #6 longest ALL TIME, with some awesome companions like the expansion Capitals and Cleveland Barons.

To me, getting Cat then not spending to the cap is half assing it.

 

[letsgowings9999]

Anyone know what the hell d'angelo's done now to get bought out?? Lol

Im sure itll be something really bad otherwise I'd be pushing yzerman hard to sign him x1 yr. Hes actually someone who can put up stats and get a 1st back at the deadline

 

[Detroit Knights]

OK, let's ignore Compher's contract....

I still dunno why "overpaying" Tank for one year is a big deal. I'm not even sure $7M is overpayment, he could wind up playing over that contract. I'd go as high as $8M, but that would mean trading or burying someone. Tank could very well go 1 PPG in the right situation.

The team has cap space, they should use it. If anything to break the playoff drought streak. If they don't make the playoffs this season, they're tied for #6 longest ALL TIME, with some awesome companions like the expansion Capitals and Cleveland Barons.

To me, getting Cat then not spending to the cap is half assing it.

I wouldn't say its a big deal, but I also am not sure how much I would want tarasenko on the makeup of this current team.

I will say that I am ignorant about some aspects of taraenko's game, so I don't know if he is good defensively or not, I would suspect he isn't, so that is where I would be hesitant. We have Debrincat to do the scoring and although it would be great if tarasenko was great at scoring and semi-two way play, then sign me up. But adding another pure goal scorer that doesn't play defense would be rough.

All this to say, I wouldn't mind tarasenko. I would just think that his linemates need to understand that they will have to make up for his defensive play and do you think copp (for example) would be willing to do that all the time? I honestly don't know, just thinking out loud.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Anyone know what the hell d'angelo's done now to get bought out?? Lol

Im sure itll be something really bad otherwise I'd be pushing yzerman hard to sign him x1 yr. Hes actually someone who can put up stats and get a 1st back at the deadline

I think it’s just the Flyers going scorched earth. Their roster is looking worse than 19-20 Detroit. They’re trying to clear as much space and don’t care how they do it.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Anyone know what the hell d'angelo's done now to get bought out?? Lol

Im sure itll be something really bad otherwise I'd be pushing yzerman hard to sign him x1 yr. Hes actually someone who can put up stats and get a 1st back at the deadline

Probably a combination of:

-Briere pushing the Flyers into a rebuild

-If the type of game Tortorella wants his players to play is water, then TDA is pretty much oil

-With TDA's history/reputation, despite his production he's probably always going to have low value in trades. I think I saw somewhere that few teams were interested in DeAngelo even with the Flyers willing to retain 50%, so a buyout was the next best alternative after they got a 2nd buyout window.

 

[Gniwder]

I wouldn't say its a big deal, but I also am not sure how much I would want tarasenko on the makeup of this current team.

I will say that I am ignorant about some aspects of taraenko's game, so I don't know if he is good defensively or not, I would suspect he isn't, so that is where I would be hesitant. We have Debrincat to do the scoring and although it would be great if tarasenko was great at scoring and semi-two way play, then sign me up. But adding another pure goal scorer that doesn't play defense would be rough.

All this to say, I wouldn't mind tarasenko. I would just think that his linemates need to understand that they will have to make up for his defensive play and do you think copp (for example) would be willing to do that all the time? I honestly don't know, just thinking out loud.

IF he's signed, yeah, Cat and Tank might need to be on different lines. I don't see that as a big issue. I'd almost be inclined to put Cat on the second line, not Tank.

Let's blow Chris' money like drunken sailors on shore leave, because I wanna see the team score.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I don't why, but every time I look at the Wings D on Cap Friendly, I get the feeling that between now and the start of the season Yzerman is going to add another right hand D. But it'll be something real minor like bringing in Bear or Foote at league minimum or bringing back Pysyk on a two-way.

 

[Frk It]

I don't why, but every time I look at the Wings D on Cap Friendly, I get the feeling that between now and the start of the season Yzerman is going to add another right hand D. But it'll be something real minor like bringing in Bear or Foote at league minimum or bringing back Pysyk on a two-way.

I think our right side might be pretty set as Seider/Ghost/Holl. Lindstrom as the 7th D.

I think Yzerman said after free agency that Ghost played about 50% of the year on the right side last year.

I could see Maatta/Ghost being a good middle pair for us similar to Maatta/Hronek last year:

 

[GreatGordie9]

I see would like to see another goal scorer in the line up.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I think our right side might be pretty set as Seider/Ghost/Holl. Lindstrom as the 7th D.

I think Yzerman said after free agency that Ghost played about 50% of the year on the right side last year.

I could see Maatta/Ghost being a good middle pair for us similar to Maatta/Hronek last year:

I think part of it is knowing that Yzerman also usually likes to carry 8D and 13 forwards on his rosters and doesn't like putting young guys in spots where they won't regularly play. So the opening is more for a warm body to keep Lindstrom and whoever #13F is company in the press box.

Ideally maybe one of the younger D makes the opening roster and pushes Chairot or Holl to the pressbox (or in Holl's case GR), but with their contracts I don't think that happens this season.

 

[Gniwder]

I see would like to see another goal scorer in the line up.

Tank, Tats, and Parise are the only ones left, hence Tank getting multiple mentions.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I think part of it is knowing that Yzerman also usually likes to carry 8D and 13 forwards on his rosters and doesn't like putting young guys in spots where they won't regularly play. So the opening is more for a warm body to keep Lindstrom and whoever #13F is company in the press box.

Ideally maybe one of the younger D makes the opening roster and pushes Chairot or Holl to the pressbox (or in Holl's case GR), but with their contracts I don't think that happens this season.

Why would Holl's case be grand rapids? I don't think he can be sent down without waivers or am i mistaken?

I would like Ed or ALJO earn an opening night roster spot over Chiarot and keep him as the alternating D until traded to a team like chicago/arizona/anaheim. To get a 2nd or 3rd round pick for chiarot would be phenomenal and most contenders this coming year probably can't afford his contract, especially with the additional years. So that is why I said those 3 teams.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

Why would Holl's case be grand rapids? I don't think he can be sent down without waivers or am i mistaken?

I would like Ed or ALJO earn an opening night roster spot over Chiarot and keep him as the alternating D until traded to a team like chicago/arizona/anaheim. To get a 2nd or 3rd round pick for chiarot would be phenomenal and most contenders this coming year probably can't afford his contract, especially with the additional years. So that is why I said those 3 teams.

Chiarot is not going anywhere and neither is Holl. If there is someone who is moved out for Ed, it's going to be Maatta. I know it's hard for us to accept, but Chiarot and Holl (who hasn't played a minute for us yet despite earning Lebda status), are valued by the Wings and probably valued by other teams as well.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Chiarot is not going anywhere and neither is Holl. If there is someone who is moved out for Ed, it's going to be Maatta. I know it's hard for us to accept, but Chiarot and Holl (who hasn't played a minute for us yet despite earning Lebda status), are valued by the Wings and probably valued by other teams as well.

Not sure if you are lumping me in with others, but I actually believe Holl is going to be a good player for us. Every team has a scapegoat player that everything gets blamed on and for the maple leafs it was Holl. Even though they have players like Tavares and Mathews and Marner who 1, 2, or all 3 disappear when they are needed the most.

For us, it was probably zadina to most. Holl, I believe, is going to be a good player for us that is going to have the same effect as Maatta did this past year. I always liked Maatta and was happy we got him. I don't see Maatta being moved over Chiarot (unless it is a pure return thought process. Maatta would get more of a return than chiarot, but you have to outweight the pros/cons with his contract as well), but I am in no way upset we got Holl.

Regardless of anyone's feelings on Chiarot, he is the odd man out from a contract - to - value stand point. It would be in the best interest in the red wings to trade chiarot over maatta in this line of thinking but maatta is going to have a higher return in value to the wings. Just depends on which way Yzerman goes I suppose.

If it were me and a rookie forces a lineup change, my ideal defensive pairings with our lineup is:

Walman - Seider
Maatta - Ghost
Rookie (ALJO/Ed) - Holl

Then, the next guy to go for a healthy return (as long as he is producing like he is known for) would be ghost. I wanted ghost when he was on the flyers and thought getting him in his last year there (where his numbers were just getting worse) was the best time to get him. But, with a 4 mil contract that the wings could retain 50% on for the 1 year deal for a trade, we would get a massive return to a contender because they could figure out a way to make 2-2.5 mil work. To be fair, massive return to me is a 1st + 3rd-5th pick. But that is of course depending on his offensive output at that point, since that is what he is known for. If he has more powerplay points than 5v5 points, he will get a 1st from someone who has a mid-level powerplay that should be going to the playoffs.

 

[Gniwder]

I think part of it is knowing that Yzerman also usually likes to carry 8D and 13 forwards on his rosters and doesn't like putting young guys in spots where they won't regularly play. So the opening is more for a warm body to keep Lindstrom and whoever #13F is company in the press box.

Ideally maybe one of the younger D makes the opening roster and pushes Chairot or Holl to the pressbox (or in Holl's case GR), but with their contracts I don't think that happens this season.

Those warm bodies could be the AHL vets on two way contracts, they get extra money for being on the NHL roster, for example Hirose. I'm hoping for one more forward UFA though.

I think Chiarot and Holl could be OK, but Lalonde needs to put his foot down on those 2 and treat them the same way he treats the younger kids.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

Not sure if you are lumping me in with others, but I actually believe Holl is going to be a good ... will get a 1st from someone who has a mid-level powerplay that should be going to the playoffs.

I think you and I are very much on the same wavelength here. I do believe that Holl was basically the easy guy to blame for the Leafs and their fanbase. Despite it all, I think he could be a very solid, simple two-way guy eating minutes with the right partner is a far less pressure situation like Toronto. Playing the steady man on the right side, seems like a near ideal spot.

I don't think that Chiarot has found his footing here in DET, and I hope that him and Holl together, playing a 2nd/3rd pair stay-at-home, and far less offensively aggressive game allows them to just keep focused and be very good complement to one another. I don't see anything wrong with either physically, they both have good speed, strength, power, passing, etc. Hopefully a new coach (Boughner), a simpler more defensively geared system, and better chemistry between them turn them into a "sum greater than the parts.." kind of deal.

That being said, I think the hold here is still waiting at least another year and if the kid forces the issue, great, but I don't get the impression that they are in any rush to push Ed up. I said last year I think AlJo gets his foot in the door sooner than he does and I don't think either become fixtures pre-2024. As the same thing with Leddy when everyone wanted to light him on fire for being the worsest worse ever on the worst defense ever and he should just be cut:

Veteran defenseman who can play minutes, aren't total offensive black holes (i.e. have more than 15pts a season), still have their legs/joints/hips/etc. , and are under 5M a season are always highly coveted. Always. So despite us not loving Chiarot, he will be worth assets back at some point and having him in the lineup now probably means a lot more to Stevie and Lalonde than we want to admit as well. Which is why I sooner see them sending off Mattaa (positionally sound, lots a step, 28, cheaper deal, less term, doesn't have a M-NTC) to free up some space on the Left side - over moving Chiarot who can play both, still has three years, etc.

But I am rooting for a good Chiarot - Holl pairing and think they are going to surprise folks this next year

 

[odin1981]

I think Holl kinda gets a bad rap because he isn't a top pairing d but was in To. If he is on a second pair because of injuries or being a steady stay at home 3rd pairing he is fine. He was a defender put into the position without a actual top pairing guy in that organization. I see him kinda like big rig on the Wings if he was never higher than second pair without #5 you wouldn't notice him. And for a Def d that's the best compliment.

It wasn't his fault he was thrust into a situation he couldn't perform to expectations.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Justin Holl is a less Swedish Jonathan Ericsson.

Some guys just get a reputation as being a dogshit player (because they're used for too much time or too high up in the lineup) and they never shake it because people don't like re-evaluating their biases.

For as smart as so many people on this site want to portray themselves... they're really f***in stupid and close-minded when it comes to players that aren't stars or who they think made a half million too much per contract.

For instance, Darren Helm was never anything but a really good NHL body. The type of player that teams win with. But he got a 5x3.85M deal from Kenny Holland and then everyone hated him forever... until he came back into the Finals as a bit player on the Avs making a bottom 6 salary.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Why would Holl's case be grand rapids? I don't think he can be sent down without waivers or am i mistaken?

I'm joking because I think Holl is going to be even worse than Chiarot and will likely gain scapegoat status very quickly.

The Lebda comparison is interesting.... Holl is also a late blooming college Dman where the stars aligned and just doing a couple things right earned a termed extension before he had even played a full season so he'd be a cheap piece on a contender. Then spent those years continually getting put in the lineup in spots above his pay grade making boneheaded gaffes while his team's fans collectively said "why does the coach keep playing this guy?". Then he became a free agent, got a decent raise and some term from a different team and the rest of the hockey world went "Wait? Why?"

Actually the best fit for Holl would probably be to get the 13-14 minutes a night as a #6/7 guy like Lebda did. But you can probably get that for $900k on a 1-year deal

He would indeed need waivers to go down and, given his contract, would at least easily clear.

Plus (and I'm not saying it's the case here) I'm getting a headache from looking like Raiden from Mortal Kombat every time I see YzerDrones on social media praise the Holl signing because "rEmEmBeR lArRy MuRpHy" ....when in reality they're going to be lucky to get a wish.com Jamie Macoun.

Those warm bodies could be the AHL vets on two way contracts, they get extra money for being on the NHL roster, for example Hirose. I'm hoping for one more forward UFA though.

Yea, I get that but they really don't have two-way vets that fit the bill on D. Rafferty seems more like a guy that'll be an anchor to the top pair in GR, next in line would be McIsaac and Newpower but they don't really seem like guys you'd keep on the NHL roster for some extended period.

I guess it's possible Yzerman's planning to go 14F and 7D. That or he's got an NHL spot earmarked for when Edvinsson is healthy, but wants to see where he's at in camp before he decides if he needs to make some Alex Biega like depth move in the interim.

But I am rooting for a good Chiarot - Holl pairing and think they are going to surprise folks this next year

I hope you're right. Right now, Chiarot-Holl immediately makes me think of Krupp(mostly)-Fischer in the 2002 playoffs

 

[Detroit Knights]

I'm joking because I think Holl is going to be even worse than Chiarot and will likely gain scapegoat status very quickly.

The Lebda comparison is interesting.... Holl is also a late blooming college Dman where the stars aligned and just doing a couple things right earned a termed extension before he had even played a full season so he'd be a cheap piece on a contender. Then spent those years continually getting put in the lineup in spots above his pay grade making boneheaded gaffes while his team's fans collectively said "why does the coach keep playing this guy?". Then he became a free agent, got a decent raise and some term from a different team and the rest of the hockey world went "Wait? Why?"

Actually the best fit for Holl would probably be to get the 13-14 minutes a night as a #6/7 guy like Lebda did. But you can probably get that for $900k on a 1-year deal

He would indeed need waivers to go down and, given his contract, would at least easily clear.

Plus (and I'm not saying it's the case here) I'm getting a headache from looking like Raiden from Mortal Kombat every time I see YzerDrones on social media praise the Holl signing because "rEmEmBeR lArRy MuRpHy" ....when in reality they're going to be lucky to get a wish.com Jamie Macoun.

Ah okay. I was confused on that lol. Not sure if it would clear waivers easily though. There are some teams out there that need to get more contracts on the team (anaheim as example because of their cap floor too).

But I see what your saying.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I think you and I are very much on the same wavelength here. I do believe that Holl was basically the easy guy to blame for the Leafs and their fanbase. Despite it all, I think he could be a very solid, simple two-way guy eating minutes with the right partner is a far less pressure situation like Toronto. Playing the steady man on the right side, seems like a near ideal spot.

I don't think that Chiarot has found his footing here in DET, and I hope that him and Holl together, playing a 2nd/3rd pair stay-at-home, and far less offensively aggressive game allows them to just keep focused and be very good complement to one another. I don't see anything wrong with either physically, they both have good speed, strength, power, passing, etc. Hopefully a new coach (Boughner), a simpler more defensively geared system, and better chemistry between them turn them into a "sum greater than the parts.." kind of deal.

That being said, I think the hold here is still waiting at least another year and if the kid forces the issue, great, but I don't get the impression that they are in any rush to push Ed up. I said last year I think AlJo gets his foot in the door sooner than he does and I don't think either become fixtures pre-2024. As the same thing with Leddy when everyone wanted to light him on fire for being the worsest worse ever on the worst defense ever and he should just be cut:

Veteran defenseman who can play minutes, aren't total offensive black holes (i.e. have more than 15pts a season), still have their legs/joints/hips/etc. , and are under 5M a season are always highly coveted. Always. So despite us not loving Chiarot, he will be worth assets back at some point and having him in the lineup now probably means a lot more to Stevie and Lalonde than we want to admit as well. Which is why I sooner see them sending off Mattaa (positionally sound, lots a step, 28, cheaper deal, less term, doesn't have a M-NTC) to free up some space on the Left side - over moving Chiarot who can play both, still has three years, etc.

But I am rooting for a good Chiarot - Holl pairing and think they are going to surprise folks this next year

Agree and ROR even recently said he had to get out of toronto. It is interesting how toronto fans/media know they are extra hard on them, yet complain that they can't sign players or can't explain why players won't resign.

I have been under the impression that ALJO was getting called up before Ed and Yzerman/Horcoff have even said as much. This was at the time of ALJO's injury, which pushed Ed up more as the #1 in GR (i'm assuming) and he got more exposure/TOI while ALJO was gone and took advantage.

In all honesty I haven't see ALJO play as much because I tend to just stay with NHL, but if there are multiple management people saying ALJO was getting called up before Ed in the most likely scenario, and I have watched far more of Ed than ALJO and know he is going to be an absolutely great player, then I cannot do anything but be excited for training camp to watch ALJO.