Free Agency XII | All Pens FA News, Legit FA Rumors, Trade Ideas Here

[Honour Over Glory]

You are a strange poster. Calling people out for talking about trading for Kane, yet posting lineups with Kapanen for 2 months and defending Fleury's honor by arguing against ghosts.

All I said about Kapanen is that he has a chance, people already have him back at home playing for his team in their mind, I just want to see how he does in camp.

Apparently that annoyed people. Wanting to see a kid at camp and see if he earns a shot. I never said the entire year, if he did make it, just that he could make it, after that, it'd be on him to be able to stick.

That's all it was.


And regarding Kane - He's their winger with the most potential and the only KIND of winger they have. They don't have another Kane type in their system or even on their roster. They also have a lot of solid young defense prospects. But all I see is people forcing the idea of moving a young defenseman for Kane, creating a huge hole for that team..I mean, it has to make sense to discuss, no?

Otherwise, let's just sit and talk about how Craig Adams' leadership and the fact that he has more cup rings than Ovechkin means we should be able to trade him for Ovy (or any winger really) with salary retained, I mean, you think it's stupid, I say why not.

Logical?

We've had discussions about how so and so is lazy, then someone wants a player that is lazy, because well...insert any odd rationalization.

Semin = Garbage, lazy.
Stewart = God's gift to productivity.

Just an example.

 

[Shady Machine]

It didn't matter who was in net, because the system was just so flawed. It's hilarious to me when people pop up the Vokoun example.

It was documented, the fact that Bylsma had to adjust to the Islanders speed and their system and that he finally did, as well as pull Fleury and put in Vokoun, so we never saw Fleury get that opportunity to play behind that team with adjustments, something that may have boosted his confidence, instead, we saw him get shafted to the side when he struggled and the golden opportunity was given to Vokoun and it was great to see him get a shot no matter what.

We saw Fleury come into the game in Boston and give up a back breaking goal right after Sutter scored to get some momentum back. I think we saw enough of Fleury in the 2013 playoffs to know he wasn't bouncing back.

 

[sf expat71]

Fleury sucks, but he is our starter. Let's move on.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We saw Fleury come into the game in Boston and give up a back breaking goal right after Sutter scored to get some momentum back. I think we saw enough of Fleury in the 2013 playoffs to know he wasn't bouncing back.

After how many games was that?

I mean, jeez...he sat for how long after his coach yanked him, changed the system, had him basically marinate in thinking he hurt his team and their chances, then throws him a bone in the Eastern ****ing Conference Finals...yeah, no pressure to get back into a groove.

I mean...

Really?

And in case anyone is really missing the point and it seems to be the case with the replies to my comment...

It didn't matter who was in net, the problem was coaching (and later, the GM). Bizarre rationalization with "accountability" for prospects vs veterans, inability to adapt, and constant line-up changes were huge problems. I think no matter what, with Bylsma there, the team was boned. You could have had the hottest goaltender in the game in net, it would not have made a difference. The team had massive problems in each of those 5yrs.

If it wasn't Sid or Geno getting off of their game and turning the puck over or whatever, it was Neal disappearing, Kunitz turning into a 4th line scrub, it was Martin being hot garbage one year with Michalek, then it was Letang, then it was Fleury getting rattled because the team gave up playing defense against a cross state rival, etc...it all points to the coach not being able to understand "change" and reigning his players in. Accountability, it was painfully absent. Players looked lost. And yes, like the entire team, Fleury also sucked. No doubt in that.

I mean, no one here is giving MAF credit for the first few games against the Rangers or anything, because how dare a goaltender play well when his team in front of him plays well and doesn't hang him out to dry, then when it does, it's all pointed at MAF, and recently, Crosby getting more heat even though Neal was also garbage and most of the team with the coach not being able to figure out what was going wrong.

I hope no one is choked at the discussions though. Besides the last couple of pages, I enjoy asking you lot questions and discussing things.

 

[Shady Machine]

All I said about Kapanen is that he has a chance, people already have him back at home playing for his team in their mind, I just want to see how he does in camp.

Apparently that annoyed people. Wanting to see a kid at camp and see if he earns a shot. I never said the entire year, if he did make it, just that he could make it, after that, it'd be on him to be able to stick.

That's all it was.


And regarding Kane - He's their winger with the most potential and the only KIND of winger they have. They don't have another Kane type in their system or even on their roster. They also have a lot of solid young defense prospects. But all I see is people forcing the idea of moving a young defenseman for Kane, creating a huge hole for that team..I mean, it has to make sense to discuss, no?

Otherwise, let's just sit and talk about how Craig Adams' leadership and the fact that he has more cup rings than Ovechkin means we should be able to trade him for Ovy (or any winger really) with salary retained, I mean, you think it's stupid, I say why not.

Logical?

We've had discussions about how so and so is lazy, then someone wants a player that is lazy, because well...insert any odd rationalization.

Semin = Garbage, lazy.
Stewart = God's gift to productivity.

Just an example.

I'm not really sure what you are saying anymore. My only point was that it's odd that you call out other people for being "illogical" while trying to excuse away all of Fleury's failures. Why is it so hard to say he sucked in the 2013 playoffs, regardless of any system issues?

 

[Shady Machine]

After how many games was that?

I mean, jeez...he sat for how long after his coach yanked him, changed the system, had him basically marinate in thinking he hurt his team and their chances, then throws him a bone in the Eastern ****ing Conference Finals...yeah, no pressure to get back into a groove.

I mean...

Really?

Poor Fleury. Maybe they should have put up another "Fleury, Fleury" chant on the jumbo-tron to make him feel better. Maybe Dan should have **** on Vokoun during the off season to prop up their head case goalie. Oh wait, he did.

I have nothing personal against Fleury. He seems like a really nice guy and is very talented. But I can admit when he sucks and he was absolutely brutal in 2012 and 2013 playoffs. Regardless of system, he was an issue. He had an average to above average season last year and I hope he improves on that.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm for moving Fleury, but not for some other problem that people refuse to see (for some time, people really wanted Miller and Niemi...no thanks).

And yeah, he was bad against the Flyers, but I think the rest of the time, the entire team sucked, including Fleury. The biggest problem being the coaching.

Apparently the fact that the entire team sucked and not just blaming 1 single player, is what people keep refusing to accept.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

To change the topic.


Anyone think Spaling maybe might be used on Malkin's LW and given more of an opportunity to be the mucker on his line?

 

[cygnus47]

To change the topic.


Anyone think Spaling maybe might be used on Malkin's LW and given more of an opportunity to be the mucker on his line?

On NHL 14 Spaling ends up better than Hornqvist so.....

 

[Honour Over Glory]

On NHL 14 Spaling ends up better than Hornqvist so.....

I can't stand the game, it takes forever to load at times and when you "sim" it's rather annoying to continuously send your scout on 6 week excursions to where for scouting. But yeah, I did notice he gets pretty good in that game, haha.

I could see him being tried in the top 6.

Something like (I wish)...

Kunitz, Crosby, Bennett
Spaling, Malkin, Hornqvist
Dupuis, Sutter, Downie
Comeau, Goc, Megna

(I typed in Vitale on the 4th line on instinct...it was sad remembering that he's not a Penguin anymore).

 

[WayneSid9987]

Would love a Scuds for Upshall swap.
Maybe as the season moves along and Maata comes back, something like that comes to fruition.

This type of move, swapping money from the back and spending it up front needs to happen.

Would definitely throw out a try out invite to Malone. Maybe Tocchet can get him to come here instead of NY for camp.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Just because FLeury wasn't the only problem doesn't mean he wasn't a problem. Vokoun had better numbers because he played better than Fleury. We still lost because the other problems were still there.

 

[vikingGoalie]

Fleury shook off some of his demons last season. Here's hoping he continues in that vein.

Still I am in disbelief that Adams will even be in the locker room this upcoming season. I mean it's well known now that he was a mole and Blysma's pet. I've also heard that he is a total A-hole. So how the heck can he even be in the same room with the rest of the guys? Something has to happen before the regular season starts you would think. Either press box, or send him to WBS. There is no way that Billy G. Or Tocchett want a guy like that around.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

To change the topic.


Anyone think Spaling maybe might be used on Malkin's LW and given more of an opportunity to be the mucker on his line?

I mean, as long as they don't have some crazy notion to put Dupuis there, that'd be fine.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

If the Pens can move Fleury I'm sure they will, cause let's be honest it's his last season signed and I don't think he get's an extension unless he plays lights out this year which I doubt. If he can be moved then ship him out of town!!!

 

[Zbynek]

And regarding Kane - He's their winger with the most potential and the only KIND of winger they have. They don't have another Kane type in their system or even on their roster. They also have a lot of solid young defense prospects. But all I see is people forcing the idea of moving a young defenseman for Kane, creating a huge hole for that team..I mean, it has to make sense to discuss, no?

Of course Winnipeg wants to keep Kane. All 30 teams would want to keep Evander Kane given the situation. But this is a guy who's been about as vocal as possible about getting out of Winnipeg. Simply put, he doesn't want to be there. Even Winnipeg fans have accepted this.

Cheveldayoff hasn't made a player trade yet. He eventually will with Evander Kane. If you think Evander Kane finishes his career in Winnipeg (or his current contract, even), you're wrong.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Yea Kane definitely wants out. Said as much on his own twitter. Problem is he seems to really like the Flyers and they're much better trading partners. I'd be very surprised if he was traded to the Pens.

With Fleury, i just think JR didn't view him as a pressing concern. Played satisfactory in the playoffs last year and JR didn't want to spend more on goaltending right now with much bigger holes up front.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You'd think the Flyers would be more concerned about shoring up their defense, especially considering the rather grim news about Timonen (which sucks, by the way -- Flyer or not). But man... it would be a kick in the teeth to have Kane in the Metro. Especially in orange and black.

The Flyers also invited Penner and Malone to camp. So who knows. They are a tough team to nail down. Especially lately.

 

[Shady Machine]

If the Pens can move Fleury I'm sure they will, cause let's be honest it's his last season signed and I don't think he get's an extension unless he plays lights out this year which I doubt. If he can be moved then ship him out of town!!!

They will not move their starting goalie during the season. Even if he sucks and loses the starting job, a playoff team doesn't hand the keys over to Greiss and Zatkoff. Fleury may not be re-signed but he certainly won't be traded.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Fleury shook off some of his demons last season. Here's hoping he continues in that vein.

Still I am in disbelief that Adams will even be in the locker room this upcoming season. I mean it's well known now that he was a mole and Blysma's pet. I've also heard that he is a total A-hole. So how the heck can he even be in the same room with the rest of the guys? Something has to happen before the regular season starts you would think. Either press box, or send him to WBS. There is no way that Billy G. Or Tocchett want a guy like that around.

is it well known? Were there ever any real sources?

 

[Shady Machine]

is it well known? Were there ever any real sources?

We talked about it a lot. Does that count?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Didn't DK corroborate the entire "Adams is a snake" thing a few weeks back?

Could be wrong.

I've pretty much resigned myself to the idea that Adams will be on the roster. It could just be a "give him enough rope to hang himself with" thing but I don't think it means nothing that he was referenced by name by the new head coach in two different articles the last 24ish hours. In one he was lumped in with the "leadership core."

 

[Shady Machine]

Those weren't direct quotes though (unless I missed the other one). How do we know the writer didn't just pick the oldest guys and called them veterans?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

From the Trib (Mackey):

Johnston pointed to the team's existing group of leaders, naming forwards Pascal Dupuis, Chris Kunitz and Craig Adams, as well as defensemen Paul Martin and Kris Letang. He said Malkin and goaltender Marc-Andre Fleury are full of “energy and humor†and will “balance the group out a little bit.â€

Not a direct quote, I guess. But unless Mackey is blatantly mischaracterizing what Johnston said... I think that's pretty solid.

From the PG (Molinari):

"I know [Chris] Kunitz and Crosby play well together, so that's a good pair," Johnston said. "Both Jokinen and Neal are gone, so I've got to find a good fit for [second-line center Evgeni Malkin]. That will be very important early.

"Also, a good fit for [No. 3 center Brandon] Sutter. I want to make sure that he has somebody with him who's sort of a stable guy, which gives him at least one stable guy on his line that he can play with.

"There are lots of guys -- not a lot, but there's four or five guys -- who could go into any of those spots up top. You've got [Steve] Downie, you've got [Marcel] Goc. [Craig] Adams can move around.

"You've got Dupuis, obviously, coming back. He can play anywhere in the lineup. He certainly has played well with Sid before. Can he play well with [Malkin]? That's what we've got to see.

I lumped in a few other cringe-worthy snippets there, too.

 

[HMPens]

Those weren't direct quotes though (unless I missed the other one). How do we know the writer didn't just pick the oldest guys and called them veterans?

There is also a little video of Mike Johnston's interview yesterday on the Trib website. He does mention those guys by name, but I don't think necessarily as leaders, but mentions that he liked their character. I'm always glad when there is video that is the basis for an article, especially with the Trib, since they tend to put their own little spin and speculation into their stories.

http://triblive.com//x/pittsburghtrib/sports/penguins/