Free Agency and Trades Thread: Post deadline wasteland

[ToneDog]

Was hoping JT would sign for $10m but I'd be in on JT for $10.5. I don't buy "wants nothing to do with the media cauldron that is Toronto", especially with Babs being here. If it is true, he is not a player we want on our team going forward.

What you need to know about the Islanders-John Tavares situation

By Andrew Gross
[email protected] @AGrossNewsday
Updated April 14, 2018 7:10 PM

What it’ll cost

It’s believed Tavares will garner around $10.5 million annually. There will be no hometown discount after completing a six-year, $33-million deal with the Islanders.

Possible landing spots for Tavares

Put another way, which team wouldn’t want Tavares? However, Tavares’ salary cap hit, his presumed preference for being as low key as possible and his stated desire to play for a winner would seem to eliminate some destinations. The Sharks, always in the playoff hunt, seem like a logical landing spot as a Joe Thornton replacement. The chance to play with Vladimir Tarasenko with the Blues may also be very attractive. The expansion Vegas Golden Knights are doing pretty well so far but, based on how far they get in the playoffs, could envision Tavares as a final piece to a Stanley Cup team. The Red Wings are likely to be active bidders as well and the Canucks, losing Henrik and Daniel Sedin to retirement may try to woo Tavares also.
Places Tavares won’t go

Much like Stamkos last year, way too much has been written about Tavares, from Mississauga, Ontario, wanting to play for his hometown Maple Leafs. Beyond the fact the Maple Leafs must set aside money for Auston Matthews, Tavares likely wants nothing to do with the media cauldron that is Toronto. Ditto for Montreal. And, sorry Rangers fans, Tavares isn’t headed to Broadway.


What to know about the Isles-Tavares situation

 

[Nylanderthal]

In fairness to Nylander, Pasta has been given lots of ice whereas the Bruins are not giving Willie much. However Pasta is not allergic to the front of the net, whereas Willie might be.

At the end of the day, it proves that Ehlers <= Nylander <= Marner < Pasta. This should stop the Willie is worth north of $7M posters in their tracks ... finally.

They can come in and Use all the buzzwords and fancy stats they want until they’re blue in the face, eye test and traditional stats show that pasta is significantly better.

 

[SprDaVE]

They can come in and Use all the buzzwords and fancy stats they want until they’re blue in the face, eye test and traditional stats show that pasta is significantly better.

"Fancy stats" are just putting "traditional" stats together. There's nothing fancy about them.

No one ever said in the existence of man kind that the eye test isn't important.

 

[Nylanderthal]

"Fancy stats" are just putting "traditional" stats together. There's nothing fancy about them.

No one ever said in the existence of man kind that the eye test isn't important.

Fully aware of how they’re compiled, and yes there are some around here who would rather tell you someone’s Corsi or deployment percentage than actually look at what the player does out there shift by shift.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Can’t see us not taking a huge run at Kovalchuk his off season the way this team has been playing in the post season. Big body who can play physical.

 

[Nithoniniel]

However Pasta is not allergic to the front of the net, whereas Willie might be.

That's not even an issue with Nylander. He's been in front of the net a lot, even in this series.

At the end of the day, it proves that Ehlers <= Nylander <= Marner < Pasta.

Two games prove who was best in those two games. Nothing else.

yes there are some around here who would rather tell you someone’s Corsi or deployment percentage than actually look at what the player does out there shift by shift.

No there is not. Some people like to do both, that's all.

Edit: Actually, there might be one.

 

[justafan22]

1st rounder + b prospect for tanev
sign kovy

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

Don't really want to get into a newthread about it but do you think we should try to let Zaitsev re-establish himself next season or try to trade him this summer?

The return can't be pretty at this point.

I really hate criticizing Leaf players and I have a soft spot for Z because he really liked Toronto and wanted to play for the Leafs.

Having said that, I think the return you're looking for at this point is similar to Phaneuf - i.e. not having to be responsible for his salary/cap hit for the rest of his deal.

 

[Judas Tavares]

My question is how the series changes the thinking of management. Let's say the next 2 games aren't pretty either. Would that change management's thinking compared to bowing out in a close 7 game series?

 

[SprDaVE]

Fully aware of how they’re compiled, and yes there are some around here who would rather tell you someone’s Corsi or deployment percentage than actually look at what the player does out there shift by shift.

Context is always important. Some teams will tell you until they are blue to the face that Roman Polak and Leo Komarov are very good and effective players. It goes both ways.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Sign Tavares. You can then move assets for a dman. You can also move some O off your dcore for some D. It would help if Zaitzev put on some muscle in the off season. He looks like that skinny kid on the beach that gets his ass kicked by the big bully.

That was clear last off-season but nothing was done.

I have no idea how the Leafs can improve their defense but that's why we have Lamoriello, right? He's got all the connections and he's the mastermind of negotiations, or so I'm told.

Not sure how signing Tavares has any real connection or anything to do with improving our blueline?

It seems like some are saying that Lou isn't the mastermind that we make him out to be. We haven't addressed our requirement to strengthen our blueline despite what we might think (or hope) Lou can do. Seems like this could be a valid point, although it does appear that there isn't a lot of really strong and viable options regardless of who your GM is.

 

[SprDaVE]

Not sure how signing a d-man has any real connection or anything to do with improving our blueline?

It seems like some are saying that Lou isn't the mastermind that we make him out to be. We haven't addressed our requirement to strengthen our blueline despite what we might think (or hope) Lou can do. Seems like this could be a valid point, although it does appear that there isn't a lot of really strong and viable options regardless of who your GM is.

Negotiations happen in trades and signings...

Plenty of defenseman exchanged teams over the past year. Some of them didn't cost an arm and a leg to acquire. Good GMs find ways to make their team better.

They probably expected a lot better from Zaitsev though. Signing Polak was completely unnecessary.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I kept waiting and waiting for them to acquire a dman at the TDL and then stand pat on the D and trade for a corpse.

It seems likely to me that there isn't many options. If you don't draft and develop your own stud defender, landing a stud defender is a very expensive proposition. Many/most of the ideas floated around here are not realistic. If it was that easy, we would have surely fixed the problem some time ago.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Negotiations happen in trades and signings...

Plenty of defenseman exchanged teams over the past year. Some of them didn't cost an arm and a leg.

They probably expected a lot better from Zaitsev though. Signing Polak was completely unnecessary.

Sure I agree with that point. I fixed an error in my 1st post - I meant to say "not sure how signing Tavares has any real connection or anything to do .....".

Post #1438 better explains the point I was trying to make. Having said that, my view of Lou may be more down to earth than the god-like status that some have.

 

[shaner8989]

Just like everyone has said all year... the defense is a joke

Polak is echl material
Zaitsev is possibly worse
Gardiner is brain dead
Carrick doesn’t play
Hainsey is so over used.. he was good and now god awful
Reilly is a stud but been shit when it matters

Andersen isn’t good. He’s been trash for 2 months now

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Negotiations happen in trades and signings...

Plenty of defenseman exchanged teams over the past year. Some of them didn't cost an arm and a leg to acquire. Good GMs find ways to make their team better.

They probably expected a lot better from Zaitsev though. Signing Polak was completely unnecessary.

Several trades were made for defenders in 2017. BTW - I'm hoping this is a discussion versus what typically happens here. I've tried to be as comprehensive as possible.

Category A - Good defenders/clear upgrades
There weren't many trades involving quality defenders that would be a clear upgrade imho. In this category there is McDonagh, Sergachev, Hjalmarsson, Vatanen and perhaps Hamonic. Footnote - I debated putting Hjalmarsson, Vatanen and Hamonic in this category. Perhaps they belong in Category B.

Category B - Fair to midland defenders (but not really good)
Perhaps some would argue that maybe Demers, Scandella, Holden, TVR, Cole were decent trade targets. In my mind, we made a move like this with Hainsey.

Category C - Other defenders
Otherwise, in the next bucket of average or not-so-good defenders you have Reilly, Morrow, Davidson, Phaneuf, Jerabek, Redmond

Doesn't appear like there were very many Category A defenders (note my Footnote). The price for McDonagh & Sergachev was high.

Category B might work, but I don't see that kind of defender as being a huge upgrade or really making the team "significantly" better.

Note - The Expansion Draft produced additional and increased trade activity this year, but that is not a persistent year-to-year trend.

 

[Menzinger]

My question is how the series changes the thinking of management. Let's say the next 2 games aren't pretty either. Would that change management's thinking compared to bowing out in a close 7 game series?

Eh, it might, but this management group has been pretty stable/consistent in its decision making. I’m not sure they’re the type for big reactionary moves.

 

[Menzinger]

RE: Lucic, hell no.

In terms of a KHL return, he'd have to break the contract officially, go on waivers etc. Loaning him doesn't erase the cap hit.

If management said “we’re not going to play you” it might convince him.

Though that’s easier said than done wotr so much term left. If he only had a couple years left it would be one thing be he’s got a lot more than that.

I’m hoping he’s a guy who can rebound for the Leafs given very sheltered usage.

 

[ToneDog]

It seems likely to me that there isn't many options. If you don't draft and develop your own stud defender, landing a stud defender is a very expensive proposition. Many/most of the ideas floated around here are not realistic. If it was that easy, we would have surely fixed the problem some time ago.

I had no hope for a stud dman (OEL, McDonagh wasn't happening). I would have been happy with anybody better than Polak. The Bruins landed Miller from the Rangers and he has been solid. With Hainsey out of gas, Z playing like a AAA player, Polak slow as molasses, Rielly playing the worst D of his career, it simple to see why we are being lit up.

I thought our D would elevate their game in the playoffs but I was wrong.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Several trades were made for defenders in 2017. BTW - I'm hoping this is a discussion versus what typically happens here. I've tried to be as comprehensive as possible.

Category A - Good defenders/clear upgrades
There weren't many trades involving quality defenders that would be a clear upgrade imho. In this category there is McDonagh, Sergachev, Hjalmarsson, Vatanen and perhaps Hamonic. Footnote - I debated putting Hjalmarsson, Vatanen and Hamonic in this category. Perhaps they belong in Category B.

Category B - Fair to midland defenders (but not really good)
Perhaps some would argue that maybe Demers, Scandella, Holden, TVR, Cole were decent trade targets. In my mind, we made a move like this with Hainsey.

Category C - Other defenders
Otherwise, in the next bucket of average or not-so-good defenders you have Reilly, Morrow, Davidson, Phaneuf, Jerabek, Redmond

Doesn't appear like there were very many Category A defenders (note my Footnote). The price for McDonagh & Sergachev was high.

Category B might work, but I don't see that kind of defender as being a huge upgrade or really making the team "significantly" better.

I think scandella and demers would of provided quality enough upgrades to the blue line to investigate, I agree with the assessment on the rest though. Hopefully management figures it out in the offseason or we’re going to waste the last year of Matthews and Marner elc as well

 

[Cor]

I do think people are being a tad harsh on Zaitsev.

Like he's been bad this year, but he had a good year last season, and wouldn't be the first player to struggle in year 2 and rebound in year 3.

Here's what I do;

- I think Liljegren very well could be on the team next year. A Hainsey-Liljegren 3rd pairing intriques me.
- Morgan Rielly needs a partner. Can't be Hainsey, Liljegren won't be ready, and we won't be able to trust Zaitsev there. So is that Jake Gardiner? Numbers suggest a Rielly-Gardiner pairing could be effective as their stints together were good. If not, I think we look at moving Gardiner for a RHD.
- The second pairing is fairly easy. Travis Dermott. Nikita Zaitsev. Eventually, that should become Dermott-Liljegren.
- Borgman should be one spare, who can swap in for Hainsey when needed. This season has shown that Hainsey can be a very effective player when he is kept fresh, we can't play him top minutes and 82 games next season. 60 games and bottom pairing will let him be 100% for the playoffs, which is the ultimate goal. Carrick is my other spare, but can see him moved and us signing an FA

Rielly - Gardiner/Acquired Player
Dermott - Zaitsev
Hainsey - Liljegren
Borgman - Carrick/UFA

Nothing extreme, other than potentially moving Gardiner for a different top 4 d-man. However, we get a bit more quality in LIljegren, Dermott for a full-season, hopefully a better Zaitsev, and everyone is where they realistically should be.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I had no hope for a stud dman (OEL, McDonagh wasn't happening). I would have been happy with anybody better than Polak. The Bruins landed Miller from the Rangers and he has been solid. With Hainsey out of gas, Z playing like a AAA player, Polak slow as molasses, Rielly playing the worst D of his career, it simple to see why we are being lit up.

I thought our D would elevate their game in the playoffs but I was wrong.

I think Boston acquired Holden not Miller. Kevan Miller has always been a Bruin I think and started with their farm team in Providence, RI.

I am trying to make a distinction between a (minor) upgrade versus a trade that significantly improves the team (and/or our blueline). Hope that makes it clearer.

 

[ToneDog]

That's not even an issue with Nylander. He's been in front of the net a lot, even in this series.


Two games prove who was best in those two games. Nothing else.


No there is not. Some people like to do both, that's all.

Edit: Actually, there might be one.

I think Pasta has done it for more than 2 games. More like 2+ seasons. Willie spends much more time around the perimeter than in front of the net. Was thinking Willie plays similar to Kessel so it may not be a bad thing. Kessel has been a playoff beast for most of his career. Only Chara was able to neutralise him.

 

[ToneDog]

I think Boston acquired Holden not Miller. Kevan Miller has always been a Bruin I think and started with their farm team in Providence, RI.

I am trying to make a distinction between a (minor) upgrade versus a trade that significantly improves the team (and/or our blueline). Hope that makes it clearer.

Sorry you are right on all fronts.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Eye test and traditional stats will tell you otherwise though. Those two have been bad bad bad all year and sore points for the entire fan base Pretty much universally

Context is always important. Some teams will tell you until they are blue to the face that Roman Polak and Leo Komarov are very good and effective players. It goes both ways.