Free Agency and Trades Thread: Post deadline wasteland

[Canada4Gold]

I think Boston acquired Holden not Miller. Kevan Miller has always been a Bruin I think and started with their farm team in Providence, RI.

I am trying to make a distinction between a (minor) upgrade versus a trade that significantly improves the team (and/or our blueline). Hope that makes it clearer.

Miller, also known as the guy Boston protected instead of Colin Miller.

Man Boston is really good because they've done a LOT of things right. But holy jumpin' they could be so much better it's not even funny. Add Barzal(13th overall) and Chabot/Boeser/Hamilton*, Colin Miller, and Seguin to this team. All players they could reasonably** have had on the team without subtracting anyone as the pieces they've gotten for them aren't here yet/anymore.

*Hamilton trade for a 1st, 2nd, 2nd, could keep Hamilton(IIRC he wouldn't sign though) or use the 1st to draft Chabot/Boeser, neither 2nd in the NHL yet.

** Reasonably meaning in the draft picking guys ranked around that pick and not some ridiculous logic to add stupid hindsight draft picks to the team.

 

[weems]

My answer to that: Because its more or less a pipe dream to expect to find top pairing (or #3 guys) for cheap.

I'd at least attempt this route in year 3 of the Matthews/Nylander/Marner era before going overboard and overpaying to fill some hole.

Trading Nylander for a D should be done as a last resort and if anything doing it a few years down the road when his value will definitely be higher (he might be a C at the point) would make more sense.

You also have to factor in that although we get this D and he will improve our D, our offense also takes a hit subtracting Nylander and hes a great offensive player and definitely opens up space for Matthews with his speed and great zone entry ability.

You take Nylander and JVR off this roster and all the sudden we might not have such a great offense and everyone will be saying "Man we need another elite forward".

Dermott could take a big step forward next year and Liljegren should see some playing time at some point next season.

I know its not fun but being patient in this spot I think will be our best play longterm.

 

[MyBudJT]

I'd at least attempt this route in year 3 of the Matthews/Nylander/Marner era before going overboard and overpaying to fill some hole.

Trading Nylander for a D should be done as a last resort and if anything doing it a few years down the road when his value will definitely be higher (he might be a C at the point) would make more sense.

You also have to factor in that although we get this D and he will improve our D, our offense also takes a hit subtracting Nylander and hes a great offensive player and definitely opens up space for Matthews with his speed and great zone entry ability.

You take Nylander and JVR off this roster and all the sudden we might not have such a great offense and everyone will be saying "Man we need another elite forward".

Dermott could take a big step forward next year and Liljegren should see some playing time at some point next season.

I know its not fun but being patient in this spot I think will be our best play longterm.

I don't really disagree with this. I'm not suggesting to trade anyone for the sake of doing so, so don't confuse my suggestion for that... BUT IF the right opportunity comes for a quality D-man, and they need Nylander ++... you'd have to consider it.

I'm also not as high on Nylander as many here on HFboards are. I found it really discouraging that his productoin took a steep dip with Matthews out of the lineup. We have yet to witness Nylander become the main driver of his line... So when you label him as an 'elite' forward, I'm not convinced. Is he a 20G scorer version of 'Bobby Ryan' calliber player (His first 3 seasons he 30+G and on pace for 65+ point seasons), or is he someone much better? I was going to suggest Nicklas Backstrom, but even Backstroom had 69, 88 and 101 point seasons in his ELC years. Nylander is nowhere near that.

But yeah, my ideas of trading Nylander are largely founded on signing some elite talent this offseason... IE: Johnny Tavares. I know its a pipe dream, but it would be awesome to have two franchise Cs on this team.

No need for knee-jerk reactions, but our issues at D can't go understated either.

 

[Stephen]

One thing Boston does well is development. Just look at defensemen that have come up in their system.

Colin Miller, Torey Krug, Kevan Miller, Adam McQuaid, Matt Hunwick, Matt Bartkowski, Johnny Boychuk, Matt Grzelcyk, they just build these guys like an assembly line. Contrast that with the mid round garbage the Leafs churn out.

 

[showtime8]

One thing Boston does well is development. Just look at defensemen that have come up in their system.

Colin Miller, Torey Krug, Kevan Miller, Adam McQuaid, Matt Hunwick, Matt Bartkowski, Johnny Boychuk, Matt Grzelcyk, they just build these guys like an assembly line. Contrast that with the mid round garbage the Leafs churn out.

Everything looks better when you're winning and looks worse when you're not.

Morgan Rielly is better than all of those players. Travis Dermott is near the top of that list too.

Will Liljegren be the next guy?

 

[Zippy316]

Would the Leafs have any interest in Severson?

After the Vatanen trade, I could see him becoming the odd man out on the right side depending on who the Devils add. Just trying to gauge where other teams are at and how much interest there would be.

From a Devils perspective, I'd say the most realistic trade involving him would be for a young RW and/or picks. Everywhere else we either have bodies for or we need to keep space open for younger guys.

 

[Legion34]

Would the Leafs have any interest in Severson?

After the Vatanen trade, I could see him becoming the odd man out on the right side depending on who the Devils add. Just trying to gauge where other teams are at and how much interest there would be.

From a Devils perspective, I'd say the most realistic trade involving him would be for a young RW and/or picks. Everywhere else we either have bodies for or we need to keep space open for younger guys.

I would for sure. I didn’t see much jersey this year but if he hasn’t just completely lost it 100 percent the kind we are looking for.

What would t cost????

 

[Stephen]

Everything looks better when you're winning and looks worse when you're not.

Morgan Rielly is better than all of those players. Travis Dermott is near the top of that list too.

Will Liljegren be the next guy?

Yeah but those are all non first or second round picks. I haven't even mentioned McAvoy, Carlo, Hamilton yet.

Point is, when we have guys like Justin Holl, Rinat Valiev, Viktor Loov, they often don't turn out to be much. That has to change.

 

[showtime8]

Yeah but those are all non first or second round picks. I haven't even mentioned McAvoy, Carlo, Hamilton yet.

Point is, when we have guys like Justin Holl, Rinat Valiev, Viktor Loov, they often don't turn out to be much. That has to change.

It's fair that you'd want to hit on the mid-late round picks. So at the moment, the Leafs 6 defensemen are a 1st round pick in Rielly, a solid veteran in Hainsey (1st round pick), a 1st round pick in Gardiner (Leafs essentially developed him), Zaitsev - undrafted and a decent contributor (has struggled after injury), Dermott (2nd round pick with top 4 potential) and Polak a veteran that should be your typical #6.

So what are you looking for in terms of roster development? Who comes out of the line-up and who gets shifted around?

IMO, Hainsey looks to be worn down at this point and could be shifted down the line-up. But other than that, I'm not sure what there is to gripe about. You've filled your roster positions with the best possible rounds of the draft.

 

[Zippy316]

I would for sure. I didn’t see much jersey this year but if he hasn’t just completely lost it 100 percent the kind we are looking for.

What would t cost????

If I were Shero, I would look to target a right-handed shooting RW. Leafs have a ton which makes them an ideal trade partner. If Toronto hires Chiarelli, then maybe Marner or Nylander?

In all seriousness, the most realistic options are Brown and Kapanen. Kapanen is probably the ideal target unless the Devils seriously think Brown will produce with more opportunity.

The tough part is I think Severson is somewhere in the gap between Marner/Nylander and the next group of RWs the Leafs have. I'm not sure if Kapanen is enticing enough to the Devils to move Severson.

 

[WTFMAN99]

If I were Shero, I would look to target a right-handed shooting RW. Leafs have a ton which makes them an ideal trade partner. If Toronto hires Chiarelli, then maybe Marner or Nylander?

In all seriousness, the most realistic options are Brown and Kapanen. Kapanen is probably the ideal target unless the Devils seriously think Brown will produce with more opportunity.

I think the Leafs could do Brown and Carrick (gives you a RHD that is cheap coming back) for Severson. Will miss Brownie but give to get.

 

[Zippy316]

I think the Leafs could do Brown and Carrick (gives you a RHD that is cheap coming back) for Severson. Will miss Brownie but give to get.

Devils wouldn't need Carrick. Santini would get a spot, Mueller would get a spot, and Lovejoy would hold down the 6/7 role. Plus I think this only occurs if the Devils somehow add a defender (hoping it's Carlson).

The more I think about it, Kapanen would likely be the main target, but it's still tough to commit to a deal like this with the gap in experience between the two. I'm not sure Brown offers much more than the Devils can get from Coleman or Noesen and whatever the gap is it makes little sense to add another similar player.

 

[Stephen]

It's fair that you'd want to hit on the mid-late round picks. So at the moment, the Leafs 6 defensemen are a 1st round pick in Rielly, a solid veteran in Hainsey (1st round pick), a 1st round pick in Gardiner (Leafs essentially developed him), Zaitsev - undrafted and a decent contributor (has struggled after injury), Dermott (2nd round pick with top 4 potential) and Polak a veteran that should be your typical #6.

So what are you looking for in terms of roster development? Who comes out of the line-up and who gets shifted around?

IMO, Hainsey looks to be worn down at this point and could be shifted down the line-up. But other than that, I'm not sure what there is to gripe about. You've filled your roster positions with the best possible rounds of the draft.

We need more of guys like Rasanen, Mattinen, Greenway, Holl, Lindgren, Nielsen, etc. to become players. Pretty obvious statement.

 

[Stephen]

I think the Leafs could do Brown and Carrick (gives you a RHD that is cheap coming back) for Severson. Will miss Brownie but give to get.

Yeah I'd give up Brown pretty easily. I think he's pretty tapped out in terms of potential. He just doesn't offer any outstanding anything in terms of speed, skill, size, energy. He's an intelligent player and versatile, but I'd like to get something else in that spot.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Devils wouldn't need Carrick. Santini would get a spot, Mueller would get a spot, and Lovejoy would hold down the 6/7 role. Plus I think this only occurs if the Devils somehow add a defender (hoping it's Carlson).

The more I think about it, Kapanen would likely be the main target, but it's still tough to commit to a deal like this with the gap in experience between the two. I'm not sure Brown offers much more than the Devils can get from Coleman or Noesen and whatever the gap is it makes little sense to add another similar player.

Wouldn't Mueller go on the left side of defense?

Yeah I'd give up Brown pretty easily. I think he's pretty tapped out in terms of potential. He just doesn't offer any outstanding anything in terms of speed, skill, size, energy. He's an intelligent player and versatile, but I'd like to get something else in that spot.

RE: Both posts, main motivation for Brown over Kappy moving is the salary cap. I think Brown has more to give, he's either been on the 4th line or baby sitting JVR and Bozak defensively at 5v5, one of our better PKers still and likely good for 15-20 goals a year in the top 9 with any PP time.

Severson is a bit concerning though, 55% zone start and yet not even 50% corsi.

 

[Stephen]

Wouldn't Mueller go on the left side of defense?



RE: Both posts, main motivation for Brown over Kappy moving is the salary cap. I think Brown has more to give, he's either been on the 4th line or baby sitting JVR and Bozak defensively at 5v5, one of our better PKers still and likely good for 15-20 goals a year in the top 9 with any PP time.

Severson is a bit concerning though, 55% zone start and yet not even 50% corsi.

In terms of Brown, I just see his poor mobility and scrawny frame as limiting factors.

 

[WTFMAN99]

In terms of Brown, I just see his poor mobility and scrawny frame as limiting factors.

I think he's pretty average for speed, he wins his fair share of foot races.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think he's pretty average for speed, he wins his fair share of foot races.

The guy definitely is not slow. Maybe on our team he's average but that's being average on at the very worst a top 5 team in terms of speed.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Yeah I'd give up Brown pretty easily. I think he's pretty tapped out in terms of potential. He just doesn't offer any outstanding anything in terms of speed, skill, size, energy. He's an intelligent player and versatile, but I'd like to get something else in that spot.

He still has a lot more to offer. The guy is stuck doing pretty much all of the jobs nobody wants to do and never complains about it. He was nearly 20-20 in his rookie year when he got to play with Kadri and Komarov. Imagine giving him Marleau and Kadri... He'd easily get there again, if not reach 25-25.

 

[Dragao6]

Target Muzzin and Tanev finally solidify that back end and allow our attack to attack

Rielly-Tanev
Muzzin-Zaitsev
Dermot-Hainsy

Im also not against a look at evander kane to play on that top line, move hyman to third line where he belongs

 

[Legion34]

I’ve said from the start. Jay beagle would be be perfect for the 4th line.

Beyond that washington only has 15 mill to spend (80 mill cap)

With.....
Carlson
Wilson
Beagle
Bowey
Grubauer to sign. Among others.

Figure 7.5 for Carlson

That gives 7.5 for the rest.... could we get Wilson?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Target Muzzin and Tanev finally solidify that back end and allow our attack to attack

Rielly-Tanev
Muzzin-Zaitsev
Dermot-Hainsy

Im also not against a look at evander kane to play on that top line, move hyman to third line where he belongs

What do these trades look like? I am skeptical.

I’ve said from the start. Jay beagle would be be perfect for the 4th line.

Beyond that washington only has 15 mill to spend (80 mill cap)

With.....
Carlson
Wilson
Beagle
Bowey
Grubauer to sign. Among others.

Figure 7.5 for Carlson

That gives 7.5 for the rest.... could we get Wilson?

Beagle has been my guy for a while, I think they get out of the Orpik deal to keep Wilson though.

 

[WTFMAN99]

You know when you're on night shift and it's dead? Having 1 of those nights so decided to get stupid with Capfriendly's armchair GM. I feel the top 9 is fairly interchangeable.

• Toews at 7M cap hit and Hawks 2nd for 1st, Nylander, Zaitsev, Leivo
• Pysyk and McGinn for Brown, Carrick and Martin
• McBackUp to Colorado for a 6th - Figure Bernier is going to depart for $

Re-sign Johnsson 1 year 850k
Re-sign Gauthier 1 year 700k
Sign Beagle 2 years 2M
Sign Hansen 1 year 1.9M
Sign Reaves 1 year 1.05M
Sign Pateryn 1 year 950k
Sign Carlson 7 years 7M

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Johnsson-Toews-Kapanen
Marleau-Kadri-McGinn
Grundstrom-Beagle-Hansen
Gauthier-Reaves

Gardiner-Carlson
Rielly-Pysyk
Dermott-Hainsey
Pateryn

Andersen
Sparks

10.7M cap space

Johnsson, Gathier, Hansen, Reaves, Pateryn, Kapanen, MAtthews, Marne, McGinn, Hainsey Pateryn and Sparks expire.

So should be plenty of room for the important guys to get re-signed. Toews is pretty much never getting moved

 

[Dragao6]

What do these trades look like? I am skeptical.



Beagle has been my guy for a while, I think they get out of the Orpik deal to keep Wilson though.

Yes that is the hard part right and am not sure. Where Lou earns his money.
Im thinking vancouver would want picks and prospects

LA...Gardiner would be involved. He must have good value with a 50+ season and his points have been increasing. He creative and unpredictable which i like and can skate but im tired of his mistakes

I dont think with this defence babcock could mess it up...his kind of guys?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Yes that is the hard part right and am not sure. Where Lou earns his money.
Im thinking vancouver would want picks and prospects

LA...Gardiner would be involved. He must have good value with a 50+ season and his points have been increasing. He creative and unpredictable which i like and can skate but im tired of his mistakes

I dont think with this defence babcock could mess it up...his kind of guys?

Gardiner would need to be extended...not sure what they'd want on top of him or if it's worth going on the deal if it's more then straight up. He had a good year

Tanev is likely a 1st and then ??? on top. Most Vancouver fans want Liljegren