Free Agency and Trades Thread: Post deadline wasteland

[Barilko14]

Why would the Leafs be forced to pay Nylander more then what similar players are being paid???? Makes no sense.

So that means if the cap goes higher again Matthews could get paid more then McDavid??? On what basis. Love the kid, great player....but no McDavid!!!!

I don't buy that players will get paid more because of a cap increase. JVR will get a contract similar to Oshie and for what Marleau signed for. Why??? Because that is the type of player he is.

Both Nylander and Marner will sign for what similar players signed for prior to them. Not a penny more because the cap increases.

You really don't understand the concept of salaries increasing because of the cap increasing?

Ever or year over year?

Will a $6m player today still be $6m 10 years from now?

 

[81Leafs50]

I must be missing something. Not much of a cushion especially with the assumptions that Nylander and Marner will only get $6m/year AAV, and that we will banking on Rosen and two other prospects with little or no NHL experience on our blueline. Seems like it wouldn't take much to see that model fall apart?

Leafs have rookies in the roster now and are having a good season. Also Leafs had rookies last season and were successful as well. What makes you think its not doable next season or in following seasons?

what about The bonuses that are rolled over from the previous year potentially? right now that could be as much as 3.7 million according to cap geek, you also missed the 1.2 million in retained salary to Kessel and Seattle wont be in the NHL by the 19-20 season so that 85 million number is all speculation.

Kessel's salary is already included. ALSO in my numbers I am using all of Hortons $5.25M contract where as the Leafs dont have to and can use some of it for bonuses. $85M is guaranteed not next year, but for the following season because of Seattle.

 

[81Leafs50]

Horton does not give us anymore Cap Space, we are allowed to exceed the cap by his amount but Horton's contract still counts against our Cap. so with or without him we don't get anymore cap space.

also in the 19-20 year we already have 38.2 million locked up in 9 players add another 24 million for Matthews/Marner/Nylander(unless they bridge 1 or 2), and were up to around 62 million with 12 guys signed, meaning we would roughly have 23ish million(horton 5.3) depending on the upper limit to sign the other 11 players to make up a 23 man roster. so unless we move salary out not sure we can afford more. if you add a tavares at 10 then you need 10 more players for 13 million. or Doughty/Karlsson same thing.

you are wrong. Having Horton absolutely gives us more to work with.

 

[ToneDog]

Interesting how some of the media think they have not signed JVR because they can't fit him under the cap once the big 3 are signed. Makes me wonder how some of them even have jobs. I don't have any insight but the Marleau signing indicated that JVR was not in their future plans and why they have not signed him and are probably not going to. This management team has a plan to replace their UFAs. Maroon might be a LWer who could be a cheaper, grittier JVR light. Replace TyBo with a more responsible C and we are no further behind. Add a solid #4 dman and with continued growth from the kids and I see that lineup being stronger. How much stronger depends on the C that replaces TyBo and how much #34, #29, #16, #28 and #23 get better.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

JVR is making half this board look stupid, night after night. We have to try and bring him back, and replace Bozak with a more responsible centre.

 

[Maplebeasts]

JVR is making half this board look stupid, night after night. We have to try and bring him back, and replace Bozak with a more responsible centre.

I think most of us are cool with JVR coming back, so long as the contract isn't awful. The term ether needs to be short or the cap hit needs to be tradeable.

 

[ToneDog]

JVR is making half this board look stupid, night after night. We have to try and bring him back, and replace Bozak with a more responsible centre.

My claim and it could be a dream is that plan A is Tavares (and now Maroon) and Plan B or C is JVR and a more responsible centre.

 

[ToneDog]

JVR is making half this board look stupid, night after night. We have to try and bring him back, and replace Bozak with a more responsible centre.

Claimed that JVR would be playing for a contract since first couple of the weeks of the season. Glad to see those that asked "when ?" are now eating crow. Having said that I am happy to see him walk if we can sign Tavares.

 

[Walshy7]

You really don't understand the concept of salaries increasing because of the cap increasing?

Ever or year over year?

Will a $6m player today still be $6m 10 years from now?

as long as they are a leaf and him earning $6M ensures all our salaries fit into a perfect cost range that means we get a elite player cheap and also room to add. I don't understand people undervaluing Matthews contract and to a lesser extent Marner and Nylander although $6M isn't too out of reality for Nylander this offseason. But the posters who are adamant Matthews wont break $10M I find funny, A: why set yourself up for guaranteed disappointment and B: why are they so desperate to pretty much rip off our franchise C? I don't get it

 

[ToneDog]

as long as they are a leaf and him earning $6M ensures all our salaries fit into a perfect cost range that means we get a elite player cheap and also room to add. I don't understand people undervaluing Matthews contract and to a lesser extent Marner and Nylander although $6M isn't too out of reality for Nylander this offseason. But the posters who are adamant Matthews wont break $10M I find funny, A: why set yourself up for guaranteed disappointment and B: why are they so desperate to pretty much rip off our franchise C? I don't get it

With Eichel getting $10m Lou's argument to Matthews is that if he takes less, it means he can play with better players. Ask for the moon and it might mean we have to move a key piece. Although less than 10 is possible, he is worth as much or more than Eichel.

 

[Walshy7]

With Eichel getting $10m Lou's argument to Matthews is that if he takes less, it means he can play with better players. Ask for the moon and it might mean we have to move a key piece. Although less than 10 is possible, he is worth as much or more than Eichel.

For sure he is, so I go into thinking he is getting $11.5 maybe $12M if he signs for less ill be ecstatic but if he signs for that much I will think about what I expected. Some posters a few weeks ago were almost tearing Matthews down in order to justify why they think he will only get $9M comparing him the draisaitl. I would never begrudge a player holding out for what he is worth, the expectation that players should take a discount in order to have good teams only helps the owners. If it becomes too hard to keep talent then owners should start looking at increasing the cap and decreasing their % of the pie, players shouldn't be guilted into this

Im going in thinking
Matthews $11.5
Marner $7
Nylander $7

$25.5 for 3 elite players really wont be the end of the world, it obviously means no JVR level players and put more emphasis on hitting on draft picks but it wont cripple us. If even one of those guys signs for less than that, long term of course, then we come out winners.

 

[ToneDog]

For sure he is, so I go into thinking he is getting $11.5 maybe $12M if he signs for less ill be ecstatic but if he signs for that much I will think about what I expected. Some posters a few weeks ago were almost tearing Matthews down in order to justify why they think he will only get $9M comparing him the draisaitl. I would never begrudge a player holding out for what he is worth, the expectation that players should take a discount in order to have good teams only helps the owners. If it becomes too hard to keep talent then owners should start looking at increasing the cap and decreasing their % of the pie, players shouldn't be guilted into this

Im going in thinking
Matthews $11.5
Marner $7
Nylander $7

$25.5 for 3 elite players really wont be the end of the world, it obviously means no JVR level players and put more emphasis on hitting on draft picks but it wont cripple us. If even one of those guys signs for less than that, long term of course, then we come out winners.

I think/hope your numbers are on the high side. Nylander has not earned 7 this year IMO but Mitch might if he has a good year next year. Then again, Lou could arrange a pow-pow and come up with something to their satisfaction and allows us to dip into the free agency pool. If not, we cannot take the next step to be serious contenders next year.

 

[Menzinger]

When they're as young as they are, I don't mind betting long term on them, even if things don't work out, teams are usually willing to gamble on youth. We took a chance on JVR and it worked out alright.

I lean towards the long term option myself.

Looking at Nylander’s even strength production + the fact he’s almost guaranteed to see a boost in PP production next season and beyond, Leafs management have the opportunity to lock him up at a fantastic deal before he starts to put up major numbers.

 

[Menzinger]

Re JVR - just look at how Babcock has cut down on his usage this season. Not exactly a great indication they plan on resigning him....

Beyond next season the Leafs don’t have the cap space to spend 12ish million on two depth wingers (Marleau-JVR).

For sure he is, so I go into thinking he is getting $11.5 maybe $12M if he signs for less ill be ecstatic but if he signs for that much I will think about what I expected. Some posters a few weeks ago were almost tearing Matthews down in order to justify why they think he will only get $9M comparing him the draisaitl. I would never begrudge a player holding out for what he is worth, the expectation that players should take a discount in order to have good teams only helps the owners. If it becomes too hard to keep talent then owners should start looking at increasing the cap and decreasing their % of the pie, players shouldn't be guilted into this

Im going in thinking
Matthews $11.5
Marner $7
Nylander $7

$25.5 for 3 elite players really wont be the end of the world, it obviously means no JVR level players and put more emphasis on hitting on draft picks but it wont cripple us. If even one of those guys signs for less than that, long term of course, then we come out winners.

I suspect your salary predictions are spot on.

 

[meefer]

It's the same mentality as housing prices though. If you buy a house this year, 2 years from now the value will have appreciated regardless of the cap or not.

Is Erik Karlsson and Kevin Shattenkirk worth the same amount? Shattenkirk actually makes 50k more than him.

So while it is important to dish out deals similar to others around the league, that shouldn't dictate the end all and be all.

What sort of comparables would the Leafs look at when signing both Nylander and Marner?

You're obviously of an age that has never lived through a housing crash

 

[DatSnipeMatthews]

For sure he is, so I go into thinking he is getting $11.5 maybe $12M if he signs for less ill be ecstatic but if he signs for that much I will think about what I expected. Some posters a few weeks ago were almost tearing Matthews down in order to justify why they think he will only get $9M comparing him the draisaitl. I would never begrudge a player holding out for what he is worth, the expectation that players should take a discount in order to have good teams only helps the owners. If it becomes too hard to keep talent then owners should start looking at increasing the cap and decreasing their % of the pie, players shouldn't be guilted into this

Im going in thinking
Matthews $11.5
Marner $7
Nylander $7

$25.5 for 3 elite players really wont be the end of the world, it obviously means no JVR level players and put more emphasis on hitting on draft picks but it wont cripple us. If even one of those guys signs for less than that, long term of course, then we come out winners.

Nylander ain't getting 7 million after this season. He will be anywhere from 5.5 to 6.5 long-term.

 

[DatSnipeMatthews]

You're obviously of an age that has never lived through a housing crash

LOL it's like people don't understand how prices can fall at any time.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

LOL it's like people don't understand how prices can fall at any time.

Any time there is a bubble, there is a burst in its future.

 

[Walshy7]

Nylander ain't getting 7 million after this season. He will be anywhere from 5.5 to 6.5 long-term.

right, but since when has a player been forced to sign long term? if he thinks he let his value down he can take a shorter contract and bank on himself too no?

 

[Boutette]

Nylander ain't getting 7 million after this season. He will be anywhere from 5.5 to 6.5 long-term.

And if next year is a repeat of this one Matthews (given his repeated time on the DL) might get less and Marner might end up with more than people expect (Although without JVR to feed his number next year might go down).

 

[The CyNick]

I think Nylander will take a bridge deal at this point. He likely thinks he's better than his numbers have shown this year. Wouldn't be surprised at a 2 or 3 year deal in the $5.5 range.

I'll be interested to see if Matthews and Marner are locked up early. Previously I thought they would be, now I'm not so sure.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I think Nylander will take a bridge deal at this point. He likely thinks he's better than his numbers have shown this year. Wouldn't be surprised at a 2 or 3 year deal in the $5.5 range.

I'll be interested to see if Matthews and Marner are locked up early. Previously I thought they would be, now I'm not so sure.

true. Matthews might want a full (dominant) year to negate this one (esp with the Leafs basically not missing too much of a step with him gone).

 

[IWD]

My claim and it could be a dream is that plan A is Tavares (and now Maroon) and Plan B or C is JVR and a more responsible centre.

This is how I'm leaning as well. I think that Tavares is a higher priority, albeit lower probability, than JVR. I like JVR, and I'd be happy to bring him back. I just think that he's easier to replace by committee if you can land a Tavares-calibre player.

 

[WTFMAN99]

right, but since when has a player been forced to sign long term? if he thinks he let his value down he can take a shorter contract and bank on himself too no?

I think Bobby Ryan with the Ducks wanted a shorter term contract but Ducks wanted to go longer. He ended up signing a long term extension, that's just going by memory. Most players will take a long term deal if the money is right though, you can get hurt every time you go on the ice so if the money is there they will typically grab it.

 

[Walshy7]

I think Bobby Ryan with the Ducks wanted a shorter term contract but Ducks wanted to go longer. He ended up signing a long term extension, that's just going by memory. Most players will take a long term deal if the money is right though, you can get hurt every time you go on the ice so if the money is there they will typically grab it.

for sure you can, but if the ducks didn't get close to Ryan's lowest price he would take long term they couldn't force him to sign. Same goes with Nylander, not saying he would or should but unless its close and he can live with earning that much he doesn't have to take it