News Article: Former players tell The Athletic about CBJ as an organization

[CalBuckeyeRob]

I mean, you can't knowingly overpay players and expect to have a competitive team.

It's all about fitting as much talent as possible under the cap. Sure, you can identify a few players who you are willing to overpay a bit, but those players have to be gamechangers. That means a player like Panarin or maybe Jones. But the rest? You gotta go with what the metrics and comparables show.

The key is to show loyalty other ways. Spending off the ice is a major factor as well as making sure guys feel comfortable here and have a social life.

The team needs to really push in a number of directions. They need to push local companies to market the players more. They also need to try to push the league to raise this team's profile more.

Also, I don't know why attracting free agents is such a point of concern for other players. Free agents almost always are overpaid and not a real recipe for success. You can add a few to bolster positions, but the key pieces need to come from drafting and developing. You can then trade those draft pieces for additional help.

I agree. Do as many things as possible for their family. Fly them in and treat them like royalty from time to time. Try to set up those side deals that can get the guy a free loaner car or other perks that make them feel special. Clearly for some the RFA experience is their lasting impression and that is not good.

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

Now that we have some quotes, any guesses who’s who?

I have some thoughts about the quotes too but I don’t have time to posts them right now.

Just spitballin' here.

1. Calvert
2. Dubinsky
3. Hartnell

 

[Monk]

A couple more snippets (in the order they appear in the article):

What was your experience like with the Blue Jackets?

Player 3: I was surprised by the fan support. You play there and you hear the cannon. It seems similar to a lot of other places in the league. But then you get on a run and you get in the playoffs, and you realize, “Wow, people are really fired up about this and it’s loud.” That was unexpected for me. It reminded me of a football atmosphere, actually. You go to a football game and people are very passionate about the home team. They’ve got chants and it’s loud. Any little thing happens and there’s a reaction. In some cities you have to work harder to get a reaction from the fans. but the crowds there, I thought, were really into it, and that part of it, to me, was really cool.

When you come into Columbus as part of another team, there’s not a lot of action downtown, right? So the assumption is, then, there’s not a lot to do. But living there you realize there is. There’s a lot of redeeming qualities about living there and playing there that you don’t know about until you actually play there.
Player 2: You have to actually live there to realize how nice it is. You’re not going to change that (to the rest of the world) because you’re not comparing it to Cincinnati when you’re talking NHL cities. It’s being compared to Miami and New York and Los Angeles and Chicago. Is Columbus ever going to be seen with those cities? Maybe not, but it can still be a great city compared to say, Cleveland. The question has to be, as an organization, how can we change to make up for that? The weather, the nightlife … not great. But my wife and I, we loved going to German Village. It’s so cool. So awesome. We loved it.

Player 1: It’s funny, but when people ask me about Columbus, it’s probably framed a certain way, like, “Really, you liked it? You actually liked it?” I totally enjoyed my time there. The guys were great. Our team had some sucky seasons, but we had some fun seasons, too. And we had Torts, who was really hard, really demanding, but it was fun hockey to play because we were playing the right way. Everything is good when you’re winning.

What are your thoughts on how/why the Blue Jackets keep losing top players, either to free agency or forced trades?

Player 2: Young kids would rather get drafted somewhere else. Maybe this is overgeneralizing, but a lot of the younger guys want to go where they’re rock stars — Toronto, New York, Boston. They want to go hang out with hot chicks in Miami and Arizona and L.A. They want to try to wheel girls in Montreal. That’s what they want to do. So there has to be some other draw that Columbus has, right? There has to be something else. “We have a great team and a great culture and we’ll pay you.” Or, “We really value this (aspect) in you and we want you to stay and we’ll make sure you stay no matter what the cost.”
When we talked contract it was, “Where do you want to be?” And we said “X” amount, they immediately said, “Nope, no chance.” And we were like, “Well, that’s where we’re at and there are like six other teams willing to go there.” They expected me to give up a ton of money to play there, like they were the only team in the league. When you’re a (restricted free agent) they play hard, hard, hardball, which is unfortunate, because then as soon as a guy gets a chance to get out there, he’s like “f*** this, I’m gone.” It’s tough to treat players as nothing more than assets and then try to get undying loyalty from them as people.

Player 3: I’m not really surprised, I hate to say. I wanted to stay there, but I never got the sense it was possible. If guys want to be there and you have a winning culture, you have to do everything you can to keep it together. I have a ton of respect for Jarmo, but I feel like Columbus always has their eye on the future, what they can build, without maybe recognizing what they already have. I’ll never forget our exit meetings after my last season there. We had a great season. We were so excited about the future. And then after a bunch of us players had our (exit) meetings, we were sitting around in the room just kind of stunned. “Wait. Am I going to be back? Shouldn’t we all be back?” And a bunch of us kind of realized that was it, we were moving on. I was sad as hell, to be honest.
I get why they’re so hard on their RFAs. You have to keep your numbers down when you can. But also, the way that generation is, you have to make them feel like you really like them and value them, and I don’t think they really do that. I just know how the negotiations worked with me and it was like, “Shit, they don’t want me at all.”

Is negotiating a contract different with Kekalainen and the Blue Jackets than it is with other clubs?

Player 2: Jarmo is really good, but he’s really tough on guys. He wants to get a good deal, which, in his defense, isn’t that different from other GMs in the league. They all want guys for below market value, if they can. I loved it there. The city, the team, Torts … I would have loved to come back. That being said, they wanted to get me below market value. When it comes down to it … teams want undying loyalty from all their players, but then as soon as you don’t play well or there’s a hiccup of there’s somebody else, you’re gone. Right like that. I think it’s a little unfair for teams to ask players to take hometown discounts — “Oh, you like it, well take less money, stay here.” To me, if this is going to be a transactional relationship, let’s keep it as such.

Player 1: Listen, Jarmo’s a great hockey mind, right? He’s been a really good scout for years. He’s done a great job of bringing in players who want to be there. Yes, he’s demanding on contracts and things like that, but that’s what he’s paid to do. He’s paid to save every penny for the owners and put out the best product he can. I think he’s done a heck of a job with what he’s been able to do.

Player 3: I’ve played in places where they would tell you stuff and it was just a complete fabrication, a lie. In Columbus it was always “Here it is, here’s how it’s going to be, we have young players coming up … ” Very matter-of-fact, blunt. I appreciate that they have their eye on the future and the cap and how much you have to pay guys later in their career … I understand that all. But you keep the group together and build from there and guys end up wanting to stay. Guys love to win, almost more than anything.

If you were hired by the Blue Jackets in an executive position, where would you start? What changes would you make?

Player 2: It’s tough. You’re still fighting an uphill battle with the city of Columbus. I say this as somebody who really liked the city of Columbus. I just think generally speaking guys don’t love the city of Columbus, as a whole. When you are trying to sign guys, you might have to fly them in, wine and dine them, show them ‘Hey, this is actually a really great city! Let’s show you around.’ I don’t know if they do that, and I don’t know if they do that enough to entice people. Not to say you’re going to have to overspend on everyone, but if you want to get guys or your want to keep certain guys, you’re going to have to spend money. You’re going to have to land some big players and hold onto your best players when they hit their UFA years to change the perception that the Blue Jackets are a team that won’t pay. Get good players. Draft them, surround them, make them love it and love being there.

Player 1: This is anonymous, right? (laughs) I would say fire the coach, for sure, and I love Torts. I wish I would have had Torts at Dubois’ age, to learn how to be a pro the right way — how to work, how to play, how to focus. I’d love to have him as a coach when I was 20 years old. But I think he’s probably worn out his welcome, and guys have tuned him out. I think you need a coach that wants to bring guys together, play a fun system, score goals … that’ll lead to wins. They have the players, in my opinion, everybody’s just kind of stymied with him.

Player 3: It’s a tough one. You have to establish who wants to be there and who really doesn’t and try to build around that. If you get the sense that there are players who don’t want to be here long-term, even if you like them, you have to find a way to get valuable pieces for them. The guys who are there, make sure you’re doing everything you can to make sure they love it there and that they’re part of the long-term solution. It’s easier said than done. If you’re the GM of the New York Rangers, the job is easier. I understand that. Some states have tax situations that are really good so guys sign for less and still make more money. Or they’re treated really well and have a chance to win.
Right now in Columbus, you don’t get a sense that they really have a chance to win right away. It’s a smaller market. But when you have it together and going, you should try to keep it together as long as you can. And it’s not all a money thing, either. You need to let guys know, “Hey, listen, we love you here. You’re a huge part of things. This is what we want for you, and this is how we envision your career here, but this is all we can pay based on our salary-cap outlook.” I would have signed in Columbus for less than I got on the market. That didn’t matter to me. What mattered to me was having a chance to win and having a good role. If you’re going to try to sign free agents, you need to overpay. But when you have guys who are there and love it there — a lot of guys who are there love it — you have to keep it together and make them feel like they’re part of something.

 

[Monk]

My current guesses are Hartnell, Foligno and Duchene.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Just spitballin' here.

1. Calvert
2. Dubinsky
3. Hartnell

See Monk's post about criteria. Dubi and Matty don't meet it.

 

[DarkandStormy]

We had several stipulations to these interviews:

• the players would be granted full anonymity so that they could speak freely
• the players must have played in Columbus during the Kekalainen/Tortorella era
• the players needed to have played in multiple other cities during established NHL careers
• the players must have left the organization on good terms, with no ax to grind and no agendas

Player 3 - my guesses are Sam Gagner, Ian Cole, or Matt Duchene, though he does say he wanted to stay, so that probably rules out Duchene.
Player 2 - my guesses are Thomas Vanek or Ian Cole
Player 1 - my guesses are Scott Hartnell or Brandon Saad

But could be a lot of guys based on the criteria. No axe to grind is also hard to know for sure - does Matt Calvert have an axe to grind because Torts compared him to a toilet seat (EDIT - if Calvert met all the other stipulations, as noted above)?

Without giving too much away...
Player 3: surprised by the fan support and how loud the arena was (compared it to a football game in the playoffs; not surprised by Columbus losing top free agents, wanted to stay but never got the sense it was possible, was surprised by his last exit meeting when a bunch of players realized they wouldn't all be coming back; appreciates the honesty and directness of Torts // seems like it was someone who walked in free agency after being lowballed, but not 100% sure
Player 2: He and his wife (so...married while in Columbus) loved German Village, thinks young guys want to be rock stars and they aren't likely to get that in Columbus and that young kids want to get drafted elsewhere; says when they want to talk contract extension they mentioned they had six other teams willing to go to a certain # and Columbus wouldn't go there, says that when you're an RFA, the Jackets play hardball (hard to tell if he's speaking from personal experience); found Torts' honesty completely refreshing and says he'd call out Bob, Panarin, or Cam the same way he would Lukas Sedlak; laments the lack of marketing // seems like someone who played at least between 2017-2019 (Panarin / Sedlak crossover) and then walked in free agency, also probably 30+ given the references to "younger guys."
Player 1: says when he was in Columbus they had some sucky seasons but some fun ones too, doesn't sound like he still lives in Columbus; speaks of 2019 as if he was not on that team; says Jarmo is a great hockey mind; says team should fire Torts even though he loves Torts and that he wishes he had Torts as a coach when he was PLD's age (~20) // to me it seems like this player was gone before the '18-'19 season, didn't negotiate with the FO - Hartnell makes the most sense, I think...unless being bought out = axe to grind

If I've divulged too much info from behind a paywall, please delete.

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

See Monk's post about criteria. Dubi and Matty don't meet it.

Thanks.

I'm pretty convinced that Hartnell is one of them though. I debated between 1 and 3 for him.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Thanks.

I'm pretty convinced that Hartnell is one of them though. I debated between 1 and 3 for him.

It's kinda fun sleuthing it. I tend to agree Hartnell is in there. D&S makes s0ome nice guesses, too, although I have to say some of those guys weren't here very long and it diminishes how I react to the comments, for example Vanek versus Letestu.

Anyway, I think there's a lot of discussion - sadly, most of it also speculation - about the content of what was said and not just who said it. Again, I have some thoughts but I want to try and post something that makes sense.

 

[Long Live Lyle]

Duclair's not one of them either since Player 1 mentioned "our team had some sucky seasons", Player 2 mentioned "my wife and I" (unless he's married, but I'm 95% sure he's not, and was probably even less likely to be two years ago) and Player 3 mentioned "But then you get on a run and get in the playoffs..." None of those apply to Duclair, who was only here for one (good) season, but traded before the TDL and didn't experience the playoffs.

One of player 3's quotes makes it sound like he wasn't drafted by the organization and played for at least one other team prior to CBJ, although theoretically he could've been speaking about other players's in the league's assumptions, not his own ("When you come into Columbus as part of another team, there's not a lot of action downtown, right? So the assumption is, then, there's not a lot to do. But living there you realize there is. There's a lot of redeeming qualities about living there and playing there that you don't know about until you actually play there.") Plus, given the "multiple teams" requirement, I don't think there are many players who played in the Torts/Kek era who were drafted by the CBJ and have played for multiple teams since (I think it's more likely the "multiple teams" requirement is filled by guys that played for one (or more) teams pre-CBJ and have played for one team since.) Speaking of...

As mentioned, the "multiple" other teams requirement would eliminate quite a few guys, including Murray, Nutivaara, Wennberg, Calvert, Dubinsky (who I'm not sure would say anything anyway since he's still under contract with CBJ).

I kinda agree that I think Hartnell is one of them, not from anything specific I've figured out yet based on the quotes, but he fits the criteria in many ways for the interview, and is a national analyst now who isn't afraid to do interviews. Just feels like he'd be one. Could also possibly see Letestu.

I'm going to try to do more prognosticating tomorrow when I have more time... although by then maybe we'll have figured all this out.

 

[Monstershockey]

Reading through this, it sounds to me like Torts was the least problem of anyone who played here. Funny since he seems to be the number one problem of people on here that never played for him.

I did laugh at the comment about Cleveland though. Maybe in the 70' and 80's that was true, but not anymore.

 

[Long Live Lyle]

Could maybe see Kinkaid being player 3, too (various statements eliminate 2 and 1 as possibilities for him). He's pretty active/funny on Twitter; seems like he wouldn't mind doing something like this.

 

[Maylo]

Player 3 is Ian Cole.

 

[Long Live Lyle]

Actually, I just noticed Player 3 says "after my last season there". Technically, you could be there for one season and still say that and not be lying, but that makes it sound like a guy that was there for at least two seasons. Which would eliminate my Kinkaid possibility and all of D&S's guesses (who I thought had pretty sound logic overall).

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I felt like the exit interview one was Letestu.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I felt like the exit interview one was Letestu.

Could be. He also had two stints with the Jackets, so "wanted to stay" could refer to after the '14-'15 season. But mentioning being surprised about his last exit interview...he played two games in '18-'19 in Columbus and spent most of that season in Cleveland. So...would that really apply? Hard to say.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Possibles?
Hartnell
Letestu
Duclair
Wisniewski
Johnson

I think Bobrovskiy.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Could be. He also had two stints with the Jackets, so "wanted to stay" could refer to after the '14-'15 season. But mentioning being surprised about his last exit interview...he played two games in '18-'19 in Columbus and spent most of that season in Cleveland. So...would that really apply? Hard to say.

Good point.

 

[GoJackets1]

I thought player 3 was Hartnell. He wasn't that bad, not considering his contract, in 2016-2017. He might've been somewhat surprised to have been bought out, especially with his locker room presence. I also wouldn't say he has an axe to grind, he's always spoken positively of Torts and Columbus and the team.

Good guesses from everyone. The Torts thoughts (good coach at getting the most out of his players, bad coach tactically) seem to line up with what a lot of us feel here today. Obviously I've been on the fire Torts train for quite awhile, so for me it's nice to have a somewhat educated opinion on the idea. With Torts not seeming to be getting the most out of the guys anymore, you could argue Torts, and by extension the entire staff, are an anchor to both player development and team success.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I thought player 3 was Hartnell. He wasn't that bad, not considering his contract, in 2016-2017. He might've been somewhat surprised to have been bought out, especially with his locker room presence. I also wouldn't say he has an axe to grind, he's always spoken positively of Torts and Columbus and the team.

Player 3 specifically mentioned negotiations for himself. Hartnell never negotiated a contract here and was bought out in June 2017.

 

[LJ7]

I think it's ridiculous that fans want Jarmo gone based on a season with new pieces and 0 training camp and minimal practices. Not to mention arguably the two best players on the team playing hurt for most of the season (Jones, Werenski). The absolute last thing this franchise needs is FO turnover while recovering from all the COVID wackiness. I'll never forget seeing "Jarmo Maclean" on this board. My only gripe with him is how he handles RFAs honestly. Either way I think years from now we'll look back and think "thank goodness we aren't paying albatross contracts x, y and z"

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I think it's ridiculous that fans want Jarmo gone based on a season with new pieces and 0 training camp and minimal practices. Not to mention arguably the two best players on the team playing hurt for most of the season (Jones, Werenski). The absolute last thing this franchise needs is FO turnover while recovering from all the COVID wackiness. I'll never forget seeing "Jarmo Maclean" on this board. My only gripe with him is how he handles RFAs honestly. Either way I think years from now we'll look back and think "thank goodness we aren't paying albatross contracts x, y and z"

The biggest gripe is how he handles all RFA and UFA players IMO. One of the players said it best is that he expects loyalty but when you start negotiating dollars you are nothing more than an asset. That piece of information in and of itself is more than enough to tear an organization apart because it shows how they values the players in the organization.

We always talk about the future and how much cap space we have for the future. The players that are here are what I pay to go see. I don't pay to watch cap space score goals and stop pucks while hearing Jarmo talk about prospect x or y like they are going to win a Calder Trophy next season. I'm frankly tired of prospect hype because it has disappointed us do many times.

I pay to watch players contribute to win games and not get driven away to be more successful with another team.

 

[LJ7]

The biggest gripe is how he handles all RFA and UFA players IMO. One of the players said it best is that he expects loyalty but when you start negotiating dollars you are nothing more than an asset. That piece of information in and of itself is more than enough to tear an organization apart because it shows how they values the players in the organization.

We always talk about the future and how much cap space we have for the future. The players that are here are what I pay to go see. I don't pay to watch cap space score goals and stop pucks while hearing Jarmo talk about prospect x or y like they are going to win a Calder Trophy next season. I'm frankly tired of prospect hype because it has disappointed us do many times.

I pay to watch players contribute to win games and not get driven away to be more successful with another team.

Can you name names? Who should Jarmo have paid in order to keep?

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Can you name names? Who should Jarmo have paid in order to keep?

You are going to get me blacklisted from Hop Singh's if I name names.

Let's start with Josh Anderson for 1. It seems we lowball and play hardball with virtually every contract negotiations. it's no secret Jarmo is proud to use his "hammer."

We frankly seem to be the youngest team in the league every year because Jarmo "hammers" all the young RFA and won't pay market value for any quality UFA on the market.

 

[Forepar]

Well, the Torts issue will be resolved this summer, so that's one thing off the list.
Jarmo and the front office would need to undergo a fundamental philosophy change regarding negotiations/overpaying, and I'm not sure they're prepared to do that.
The city thing is impossible to change, although maybe with a bit more marketing some guys will be happier/feel more appreciated.

So, not sure most of this will be fixed anytime soon?

I don't think the $$$ need to change that much - just negotiate without the continuing reference to the hammer. Good negotiations result in a win/win for both sides; Jarmo's philosophy (or ownership's/management's in general) seems to be that one party wins (the Club) at RFA and the player wins at UFA stage. It can be both.

I will say, however, that the result of CBJ not willing to pay Bobrovosky $10M for 8 years and moving on from Duchenne after 3 months are GOOD - damn GOOD. It's ok to negotiate aggressively and fairly based on the team's needs and values without bashing the other side. I'm glad those two players have moved on, but the tone could have been better, not for the sake of keeping those 2 but for the sake of attracting other players to stay/come.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

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