News Article: Former players tell The Athletic about CBJ as an organization

[Cowumbus]

Remember Carpool with the Captain sponsored by Huntington?
Do you know how many local ads feature Torts, Rimer, or Shelley? Now, how many feature a *current player?* (As you mentioned, a bit unclear if that falls under the team's purview or the agents.)
A bit hard to remember some stuff pre-covid -> things like attending a Crew or Clippers game (it's not really marketing, but more community involvement) or the Nationwide Children's Days. Not technically "marketing" but some community involvement type of stuff, which would maybe fall more into your #3.
Less of a player marketing thing, but do people remember the away game watch parties for the playoffs? Almost every other franchise does something cool, with thousands of people gathering somewhere to watch an away game. The Jackets? They had people go to Pins (bar). Just so utterly lame in comparison.
I'm not a marketing person, but it sounded like those guys were lamenting the fact that seemingly the only local ads that players have been in for the last decade were Dubinsky (Meyers Jewelers) and Wisniewski (come be a poker superstar at the casino!). Again, not a marketing person, so maybe I'm misunderstanding.

While we are talking about it, why did they never use the screen on the Arena District parking garage (in front of NWA) as a place to watch playoff games? Plenty of room out front and they could easily block off the street...

 

[EDM]

Duchene is Player Number 3. No doubt

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Don’t agents do that stuff?

I feel like the ‘don’t market’ thing is just a thing we say because in the 80s the NBA lucked into Magic-Bird and then Jordan and then it’s became super popular. And so now the NBA knows how to market and everyone else...

Mike Trout is the poster child for sports media guys going ‘I don’t know what he looks like blah blah blah’.

So I still feel like someone needs to explain this concept to me. As someone who’s only dabbled in formal marketing...

Agents would do personal marketing stuff. Team marketing would be the Meyers Jewlers stuff for example. It’s a team sponsor deal using a player versus Seth Jones CBD deal that has zero to do with the team.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Duchene is Player Number 3. No doubt

I don’t think so. Duchene wouldn’t have “stayed here for less” he had his eyes set on Nashville all day.

While we are talking about it, why did they never use the screen on the Arena District parking garage (in front of NWA) as a place to watch playoff games? Plenty of room out front and they could easily block off the street...

good idea but the only issue is the live play (as in whats going on in the arena beside you) is 3-5 seconds ahead of the screen in the history ive seen games on it. Meaning the people outside would be spoiled already. unless they were able to upgrade it to a live screen.

 

[majormajor]

I don’t think so. Duchene wouldn’t have “stayed here for less” he had his eyes set on Nashville all day.

More obviously he wouldn't be talking about his "last season in Columbus" like player #3 was.

I tried to puzzle it out and got confused. This is exhausting. There might have been some red herrings thrown in there.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

If anyone's still working on divining who's who, I did a little note-taking.

Player 1
*seems to have played here multiple seasons, "some sucky, some fun"
*seems to have played multiple other places before Columbus
*was glad for the lack of notoriety
*mentioned the old plane but that the travel sitch is improved and rest of off-ice amenities have kept up with rest of league
*used 'they' when talking about the 2019 team winning a playoff round
*perceived negatives about Jarmo and Torts were not really a big deal, although he would fire Torts not because he's a bad coach or a bad person but because it's time

Player 2
*used 'young guys' a lot to describe players not like himself it seemed
*talked contract, would have loved to have stayed but felt was lowballed in contract talks, said team expected a discount - seemed to suggest that was an attitude that could turn off younger players/RFAs as well
*no marketing - liked city but there is a perception problem, 'uphill battle'
*wife and he liked going to German Village - seemed to suggest that you have to learn how cool the city is
*mentioned Torts would call out Bob, Panarin, Cam, Sedlak so there are some teammates for you

Player 3
*things like 'last season' and 'exit meetings' suggests a player who was here for multiple seasons and who finished the season here
*played here with other teams before maybe, referenced cannon and crowds
*a player who would have liked to have stayed, and would have signed for less than what could get elsewhere, but was given the feeling that the team was moving on from him, in favor of younger guys
*said Jarmo seems to always have eyes on future, perhaps to detriment of present
*speak of young players as 'that generation'
*said guys need to feel a part of something

Does any of that help?

I keep trying to decipher this (thanks btw this was a nice little spread) and the comments as a whole to pin it who can be who. I think player 1 is the toughest cookie to crack. Could it be Jack Johnson? But he didn't play multiple places

Player 2 kinda seems like he was barely here. "From what I could tell they do no marketing" meaning he maybe wasn't around long enough to definitely say so but was making a general observation. Talks about PLD, Panarin, Jones, Sedlak. Talked contract with them and felt lowballed. I was thinking at first it was Vanek, but since he felt lowballed and Vanek only had one contract offer that summer (from Detroit). So to me this says Ian Cole, who had multiple suiters. However there is also reason to believe its not him since he reportedly turned down more money from us to sign with Colorado (IIRC). He also talks about being a RFA, which he never was here. but maybe he's talking RFA status about what other teammates (As in Josh Anderson maybe) told him?

Player 3 seems like Letestu or Calvert.

 

[majormajor]

Player 3 seems like Letestu or Calvert.

Not that I know but I doubt it.

Letestu's last season in the org was almost entirely with the Monsters, the exit interview story doesn't match that.

Calvert didn't play anywhere else first. Also the only guys who left that Spring with Calvert were Johnson and the rentals, and I just can't see them all being shocked in exit interviews like that. Johnson was benched all playoffs, that's partly why none of them seem like him - there was no negotiation.

Many others have suggested Hartnell, and it feels close but he was bought out and so none of them can be him. All of these players were disappointed in some kind of negotiation.

Edit: perhaps player #1 is speaking more hypothetically about being "willing to take less" to play in Columbus, and never left disappointed in an actual negotiation. So maybe Johnson or Hartnell.

Seriously this time I give up.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

There might have been some red herrings thrown in there.

I believe the story says something about edits to help protect anonymity? So yeah maybe that includes it only leaving stuff out but also inserting some ‘cover’ words?

 

[Halberdier]

So, basically, Jarmo is an ass in negotiations, Torts is tough but fair, we need to overpay to get free agents, the city isn’t great but not terrible, players aren’t marketed enough....nothing we don’t already know.

I didn't read anything like that about Jarmo in those interviews and pretty much absolutely nothing about Torts. Also at least the second one did love the city.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I keep trying to decipher this (thanks btw this was a nice little spread) and the comments as a whole to pin it who can be who. I think player 1 is the toughest cookie to crack. Could it be Jack Johnson? But he didn't play multiple places

Sure he did. L.A., Pittsburgh, and now New York. Not sure if he had axe to grind or anything, but he qualifies based on the rest of the stipulations.

Player 1 seems to be most likely Hartnell, but could be Johnson. I guess a really outside shot at Saad. But...multiple seasons (we had some sucky seasons, some fun ones too), left before 2019 (references "when they won in 2019...they got free dinners around town"), and didn't mention personal negotiations like Players 2 and 3 with the FO. I suppose Johnson did, a bit, if the reported seven year offer (remember that? LOL) was true in his final year here.

 

[MAHJ71]

The culture point in the article worries me the most.

For me it falls mostly on Jarmo (while not the only one responsible for it by my means) and the problem is I don’t see him revising his strategy with it this far in his tenure.

 

[majormajor]

The culture point in the article worries me the most.

For me it falls mostly on Jarmo (while not the only one responsible for it by my means) and the problem is I don’t see him revising his strategy with it this far in his tenure.

Can you be more specific?

I gathered that there was an issue where Jarmo was perceived as insufficiently loyal. Is that what you mean?

 

[majormajor]

A couple things strike me as going understated in this discussion.

- We've got three veterans here who were disappointed in their offers (or lack thereof) and are now talking about a loyalty problem. Well they would think so. I can think of several instances where I don't think Jarmo was sufficiently loyal, I believe it, but these might not be the best people to ask.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

A couple things strike me as going understated in this discussion.

- We've got three veterans here who were disappointed in their offers (or lack thereof) and are now talking about a loyalty problem. Well they would think so. I can think of several instances where I don't think Jarmo was sufficiently loyal, I believe it, but these might not be the best people to ask.

Indeed and thanks for bringing this up.

Assuming that either Sam Gagner or Ian Cole are among the three - and both have been hypothesized although not conclusively - then I'd think most of us were ok at the time with not breaking the bank to bring either back.

 

[majormajor]

A couple things strike me as going understated in this discussion.

- We've got three veterans here who were disappointed in their offers (or lack thereof) and are now talking about a loyalty problem. Well they would think so. I can think of several instances where I don't think Jarmo was sufficiently loyal, I believe it, but these might not be the best people to ask.

Here's the second point I was making (the website keeps crashing on me).

The article is putatively about explaining the turnover in Columbus. But there's only two big defections that have hurt the team - Panarin and Dubois. And these veterans don't have any explanation for that. Instead they offer a variety of things that can be improved. That's okay. Sometimes players make personal decisions that don't fit into our pet narratives about Torts or Jarmo's incompetence. Maybe we've just had shit luck.

I listened to Porty on the radio the other day and the hosts described the article as "confirming our worst fears about the team". And I'm baffled by that. I had bigger fears than this! I thought there might have been something deeper than this, and there isn't. If there was, these players would know about it, and by now so would we.

 

[Nanabijou]

Here's the second point I was making (the website keeps crashing on me).

The article is putatively about explaining the turnover in Columbus. But there's only two big defections that have hurt the team - Panarin and Dubois. And these veterans don't have any explanation for that. Instead they offer a variety of things that can be improved. That's okay. Sometimes players make personal decisions that don't fit into our pet narratives about Torts or Jarmo's incompetence. Maybe we've just had shit luck.

I listened to Porty on the radio the other day and the hosts described the article as "confirming our worst fears about the team". And I'm baffled by that. I had bigger fears than this! I thought there might have been something deeper than this, and there isn't. If there was, these players would know about it, and by now so would we.

Agreed. There are much worse fears that what was outlined here. Priest meddling in roster management like he used to do would be one example. And I agree that Panarin and Dubois are the two departures that hurt the team the most. It would have been nice to keep Calvert maybe too. Other than that, I can't really say there was someone I really wished Jarmo had kept around.

By the nature of this article, you are going to be interviewing people that left the organization and so it's hard to say they 'don't have an axe to grind'. Jarmo has shown loyalty to Bjork, Foligno, Dubi, Cam, etc and those negotiations seemed to go smoothly. Those players are not likely to do an interview like this, so you aren't going to get the view of those who were deemed part of the future.

There was a knock that he's always looking to the future - well, I think that trade deadline a couple of years ago showed Jarmo can focus on the present when he think the timing is right.

I thought it was an interesting article to read and discuss but I didn't see anything too damning in it. Perhaps Jarmo could soften his edges a bit more.

 

[CharlotteJacket]

Thinking about the article, First, I'm not sure what people want out of Jarmo. He could be soft and give that extra couple hundred thousand to keep the RFA's from grousing, but as those contracts add up, it could really put the team in a bind.
Second, I think when we talk about players not wanting to be in Columbus, we're not talking about the bottom 6 guys. To be honest, who cares what they think. I'm talking about the blue chips that drive the bus. Even though a lot of us didn't want to hear it, Panarin made it clear he wanted to be a "rock star" in New York so his re-signing was never going to happen. The damaging player to me was PLD. A player Jarmo took a chance on over the more promoted Puljujarvi and it looked like he made brilliant choice. I don't know when or how things went so sour with him because a year earlier, he talked about wanting to move into a leadership role on the team. Then he wanted out?? Columbus in their history haven't had too many game changer or celebrity type players, but they have had a few. Rick Nash, Jeff Carter, Adam Foote, Artemi Panarin, Seth Jones and PLD. What's our track record with them?

 

[majormajor]

Agreed. There are much worse fears that what was outlined here. Priest meddling in roster management like he used to do would be one example. And I agree that Panarin and Dubois are the two departures that hurt the team the most. It would have been nice to keep Calvert maybe too. Other than that, I can't really say there was someone I really wished Jarmo had kept around.

By the nature of this article, you are going to be interviewing people that left the organization and so it's hard to say they 'don't have an axe to grind'. Jarmo has shown loyalty to Bjork, Foligno, Dubi, Cam, etc and those negotiations seemed to go smoothly. Those players are not likely to do an interview like this, so you aren't going to get the view of those who were deemed part of the future.

There was a knock that he's always looking to the future - well, I think that trade deadline a couple of years ago showed Jarmo can focus on the present when he think the timing is right.

I thought it was an interesting article to read and discuss but I didn't see anything too damning in it. Perhaps Jarmo could soften his edges a bit more.

I'd like it if Jarmo was kinder and gentler. I want him to build a more familial organization. I'm also not sure how much it matters. Is anyone going to dare tell Lou Lamoriello to soften his edges?

Your list of players you wished we kept is shorter than mine. Panarin and Dubois didn't give Jarmo a choice, so they're in a separate category.

Start with Derek Mackenzie back in 2014. Remember Jarmo replacing the great 4th line he inherited with Campbell, Gibbons, Tropp, etc...?There's also the now infamous "hammer" laid on Anderson in 2017.

Then there are instances where Jarmo went along with Torts publicly insulting players or otherwise pushing them away. Calvert in 2018 was a senseless loss. Duclair the next year was never that big of a liability that Torts made him out to be. He'd be a huge add if we had him now.

I don't remember them all but there are a few.

 

[EDM]

AS someone else noted, Player Number 3 talked about the cannon and the large, football like crowd and how amazing it was. THAT IS DUCHENE.

Duchene gave that same EXACT quote in a Dispatch article during the playoff series win over Tampa. Player 3 also talked about winning the series against Tampa and how he was looking to keep building on it the following year but was shocked that he never received any kind of offer. Player 3 is Duchene. I am certain about that. The other two, I am not so sure. I thought one of them could be Vanek.

 

[MAHJ71]

Can you be more specific?

I gathered that there was an issue where Jarmo was perceived as insufficiently loyal. Is that what you mean?

Yes. That is part of it.

But --- culture can be defined as many different things when it comes to a hockey team. So I don't put it squarely on Jarmo but the current loyalty/negotiation strategy (if you will) doesn't help build culture in my mind. It creates division between management and players and leads to other issues like sour teammates (PLD?)

 

[CBJWerenski8]

AS someone else noted, Player Number 3 talked about the cannon and the large, football like crowd and how amazing it was. THAT IS DUCHENE.

Duchene gave that same EXACT quote in a Dispatch article during the playoff series win over Tampa. Player 3 also talked about winning the series against Tampa and how he was looking to keep building on it the following year but was shocked that he never received any kind of offer. Player 3 is Duchene. I am certain about that. The other two, I am not so sure. I thought one of them could be Vanek.

Player 3 says he feels like “jarmo has an eye on the future too much” and I don’t really think Duchene would know that considering he was here for two months.

Plus player 3 notes how they just had an excellent season and were excited for the future before the exit meetings, when the mood around the team after we lost to Boston was pretty grim when we knew Panarin was walking. To me this player was either referencing the Pittsburgh year in 2017 or the Washington year in 2018

 

[CharlotteJacket]

after we lost to Boston was pretty grim when we knew Panarin was walking.

Not that I care about these things, but Panarin is now 0-2 years in his Ranger play-off career. Granted the Rangers have a bright future if Dolan doesn't screw it up, but Artemi will also be 30 at the start of the next season. Not old, but he's on the back nine of his playing career with not a whole lot to show for it.

 

[MAHJ71]

Not that I care about these things, but Panarin is now 0-2 years in his Ranger play-off career. Granted the Rangers have a bright future if Dolan doesn't screw it up, but Artemi will also be 30 at the start of the next season. Not old, but he's on the back nine of his playing career with not a whole lot to show for it.

He's never struck me as overly concerned with winning...caring more about lifestyle, and he sure has that now with all those tall skyscrapers in NYC.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

He's never struck me as overly concerned with winning...caring more about lifestyle, and he sure has that now with all those tall skyscrapers in NYC.

Was thinking the same but it’s still ok to feel good that he hasn’t also had team success.

 

[MAHJ71]

Was thinking the same but it’s still ok to feel good that he hasn’t also had team success.

Yeah, I'd be lying if I said there was not a small part of me that roots against him now