News Article: Former players tell The Athletic about CBJ as an organization

majormajor

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Nothing revelatory here. There isn't any singular cause and there isn't really any massive ongoing problem either. The club has lost two key players in recent years, one who wanted to be a bigger star, and the other we still don't know why. None of these veterans knew why. If there was a big problem affecting multiple athletes, they, and we, would know about it.
 
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majormajor

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I did find it interesting that there seemed to be a theme of "make them feel loved", and I hope Jarmo works to improve that. It is his job to both see players as assets and to build long term relationships, and perhaps he's failed in the latter part. Some mistakes that come to mind: letting Derek Mackenzie go, hardballing Josh in 2017, and letting Calvert go. We do not have an infinite supply of character players who will surrender everything for the team. Jarmo has to recognize those gifts and reward and retain.
 

Cyclones Rock

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I did find it interesting that there seemed to be a theme of "make them feel loved", and I hope Jarmo works to improve that. It is his job to both see players as assets and to build long term relationships, and perhaps he's failed in the latter part. Some mistakes that come to mind: letting Derek Mackenzie go, hardballing Josh in 2017, and letting Calvert go. We do not have an infinite supply of character players who will surrender everything for the team. Jarmo has to recognize those gifts and reward and retain.
And now we have none. Save for , perhaps, Jenner. There is no leadership or character on this team now other than, maybe, a few organizational depth scrubs like Gerbe and Dalpe.

Jarmo's interpersonal skills suck. He's "built" an AHL team in 9 years and needs to go.
 
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majormajor

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And now we have none. Save for , perhaps, Jenner. There is no leadership or character on this team now other than, maybe, a few organizational depth scrubs like Gerbe and Dalpe.

Jarmo's interpersonal skills suck. He's "built" and AHL team in 9 years and needs to go.

Your estimation of Scott Howson must have improved over the years, since he left the team fully stocked with leaders and character players.
 

JacketsDavid

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Nothing revelatory here.

Except the fact that it's coming from actual players.
To this point many of us knew/suspected most of the stuff (just based on observing and what continually happened with the roster) but some folks on this board denied everything "quote it", "references", etc.

Again you are right it's not a "Torts is a prik who no one wants to play for" rather values effort over an offensive system and at times runs to the press, but he gets angry if the players let anything out of the room. It is about Jarmo asking for certain things out of his players and many times not giving them back the same thing and the players feeling like he is usually looking down the road and not at the present (and he needs to do both in his job but the players feel like he is always looking too far down the road). And it does certainly confirm that Columbus as a market can't compete with the big markets, but most of the players liked it. So comes back to the very young players like it (lot of colleges and young adults) and the couples seem to enjoy it, but the guys who are looking for the nightlife and rock star experience may be disappointed.
 
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Double-Shift Lasse

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Except the fact that it's coming from actual players.
To this point many of us knew/suspected most of the stuff (just based on observing and what continually happened with the roster) but some folks on this board denied everything "quote it", "references", etc.

As has been proven before, you do not understand this concept.

Again you are right it's not a "Torts is a prik who no one wants to play for" rather values effort over an offensive system and at times runs to the press, but he gets angry if the players let anything out of the room. It is about Jarmo asking for certain things out of his players and many times not giving them back the same thing and the players feeling like he is usually looking down the road and not at the present (and he needs to do both in his job but the players feel like he is always looking too far down the road). And it does certainly confirm that Columbus as a market can't compete with the big markets, but most of the players liked it. So comes back to the very young players like it (lot of colleges and young adults) and the couples seem to enjoy it, but the guys who are looking for the nightlife and rock star experience may be disappointed.

There is some oversimplification here but it serves as a decent sum-up - generally hits the mark big-picture.
 

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If anyone's still working on divining who's who, I did a little note-taking.

Player 1
*seems to have played here multiple seasons, "some sucky, some fun"
*seems to have played multiple other places before Columbus
*was glad for the lack of notoriety
*mentioned the old plane but that the travel sitch is improved and rest of off-ice amenities have kept up with rest of league
*used 'they' when talking about the 2019 team winning a playoff round
*perceived negatives about Jarmo and Torts were not really a big deal, although he would fire Torts not because he's a bad coach or a bad person but because it's time

Player 2
*used 'young guys' a lot to describe players not like himself it seemed
*talked contract, would have loved to have stayed but felt was lowballed in contract talks, said team expected a discount - seemed to suggest that was an attitude that could turn off younger players/RFAs as well
*no marketing - liked city but there is a perception problem, 'uphill battle'
*wife and he liked going to German Village - seemed to suggest that you have to learn how cool the city is
*mentioned Torts would call out Bob, Panarin, Cam, Sedlak so there are some teammates for you

Player 3
*things like 'last season' and 'exit meetings' suggests a player who was here for multiple seasons and who finished the season here
*played here with other teams before maybe, referenced cannon and crowds
*a player who would have liked to have stayed, and would have signed for less than what could get elsewhere, but was given the feeling that the team was moving on from him, in favor of younger guys
*said Jarmo seems to always have eyes on future, perhaps to detriment of present
*speak of young players as 'that generation'
*said guys need to feel a part of something

Does any of that help?
 
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Thoughts on the content, apart from my fascination in determining who's who...

1) Sounds like there's a disconnect with creating a culture, that there's a lot of focus to doing it on-ice but not that much for off-ice. Amenities are OK, the city's OK, and we know Nick's thing is to do guy stuff and family stuff with teammates. But there's something missing there. SOunds like Jarmo is a part of it but that it's above him too.

2) What is meant when we say 'marketing'? Players have agents who are supposed to be doing endorsements and commercials. The team used to do those player-as-bartender nights, and I suppose will do again someday. There's lots of social media, although the quantity of content outweighs the quality IMO. But what is it we mean when we say the players aren't marketed?

3) It does seem like the organization could work harder to ingrain guys into the city. I had a brief thought that Rick Nash should be helping with this but he does not seem to be a gregarious personality. There almost needs to be some sort of liaison between, like Experience Columbus and the team.
 

DJA

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3) It does seem like the organization could work harder to ingrain guys into the city. I had a brief thought that Rick Nash should be helping with this but he does not seem to be a gregarious personality. There almost needs to be some sort of liaison between, like Experience Columbus and the team.

This part is mind-boggling to me because I was almost certain that the team kept someone on staff who would drive new/potential players around the city and point out various neighborhoods and real estate/schools, and give players and their families a real good overview of the city and suburbs.
 

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This part is mind-boggling to me because I was almost certain that the team kept someone on staff who would drive new/potential players around the city and point out various neighborhoods and real estate/schools, and give players and their families a real good overview of the city and suburbs.

Right? And yet that person needs to understand more than COSI and golf courses and Bridge Park and campus area bars.
 
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DarkandStormy

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2) What is meant when we say 'marketing'? Players have agents who are supposed to be doing endorsements and commercials. The team used to do those player-as-bartender nights, and I suppose will do again someday. There's lots of social media, although the quantity of content outweighs the quality IMO. But what is it we mean when we say the players aren't marketed?

Remember Carpool with the Captain sponsored by Huntington?
Do you know how many local ads feature Torts, Rimer, or Shelley? Now, how many feature a *current player?* (As you mentioned, a bit unclear if that falls under the team's purview or the agents.)
A bit hard to remember some stuff pre-covid -> things like attending a Crew or Clippers game (it's not really marketing, but more community involvement) or the Nationwide Children's Days. Not technically "marketing" but some community involvement type of stuff, which would maybe fall more into your #3.
Less of a player marketing thing, but do people remember the away game watch parties for the playoffs? Almost every other franchise does something cool, with thousands of people gathering somewhere to watch an away game. The Jackets? They had people go to Pins (bar). Just so utterly lame in comparison.
I'm not a marketing person, but it sounded like those guys were lamenting the fact that seemingly the only local ads that players have been in for the last decade were Dubinsky (Meyers Jewelers) and Wisniewski (come be a poker superstar at the casino!). Again, not a marketing person, so maybe I'm misunderstanding.
 
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CharlotteJacket

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"Player 3: I was surprised by the fan support. You play there and you hear the cannon. It seems similar to a lot of other places in the league. But then you get on a run and you get in the playoffs, and you realize, “Wow, people are really fired up about this and it’s loud.” That was unexpected for me."

I remember Duchene almost word for word saying this. I'm not a clairvoyant, but he has to be in the running for Player 3
 
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CharlotteJacket

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This part is mind-boggling to me because I was almost certain that the team kept someone on staff who would drive new/potential players around the city and point out various neighborhoods and real estate/schools, and give players and their families a real good overview of the city and suburbs.
I would be shocked/stunned if this weren't the case. I really doubt when the CBJ acquires a player, they just say "see ya" and he's on his own. I've read they have a dedicated person to assist new personnel within minutes of a trade.
 
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majormajor

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This part is mind-boggling to me because I was almost certain that the team kept someone on staff who would drive new/potential players around the city and point out various neighborhoods and real estate/schools, and give players and their families a real good overview of the city and suburbs.

Last I heard - two years ago - Rick Nash had just been assigned that exact role.

"Player 3: I was surprised by the fan support. You play there and you hear the cannon. It seems similar to a lot of other places in the league. But then you get on a run and you get in the playoffs, and you realize, “Wow, people are really fired up about this and it’s loud.” That was unexpected for me."

I remember Duchene almost word for word saying this. I'm not a clairvoyant, but he has to be in the running for Player 3

I've heard several players say something just like that, though perhaps the wording gives away one in particular.
 

Long Live Lyle

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If anyone's still working on divining who's who, I did a little note-taking.

Player 1
*seems to have played here multiple seasons, "some sucky, some fun"
*seems to have played multiple other places before Columbus
*was glad for the lack of notoriety
*mentioned the old plane but that the travel sitch is improved and rest of off-ice amenities have kept up with rest of league
*used 'they' when talking about the 2019 team winning a playoff round
*perceived negatives about Jarmo and Torts were not really a big deal, although he would fire Torts not because he's a bad coach or a bad person but because it's time

Player 2
*used 'young guys' a lot to describe players not like himself it seemed
*talked contract, would have loved to have stayed but felt was lowballed in contract talks, said team expected a discount - seemed to suggest that was an attitude that could turn off younger players/RFAs as well
*no marketing - liked city but there is a perception problem, 'uphill battle'
*wife and he liked going to German Village - seemed to suggest that you have to learn how cool the city is
*mentioned Torts would call out Bob, Panarin, Cam, Sedlak so there are some teammates for you

Player 3
*things like 'last season' and 'exit meetings' suggests a player who was here for multiple seasons and who finished the season here
*played here with other teams before maybe, referenced cannon and crowds
*a player who would have liked to have stayed, and would have signed for less than what could get elsewhere, but was given the feeling that the team was moving on from him, in favor of younger guys
*said Jarmo seems to always have eyes on future, perhaps to detriment of present
*speak of young players as 'that generation'
*said guys need to feel a part of something

Does any of that help?

Player 2 has to have been either Ian Cole, Matt Duchene, or Vanek, with my guess is it being one of the first two. Literally don't think it could be anyone else. Married. Player had to have been here in at least one of 2017-18 or 2018-19 (or both) due to the Panarin reference. He was a guy who left UFA over money/generated a lot of interest on the market ("Well, that's where we're at and there are like six other teams willing to go there."; that would seem to eliminate someone like Vanek, although he did sign with Detroit for $3 million, so I could maybe see the CBJ throwing out wanting him to sign for something like $1.5 and there being a plethora of teams willing to go into that $2.5-3 range). Unfortunately, there was nothing really stated that could differentiate whether it was Cole or Duchene, unless you think Duchene was always set on Nashville, which would lean toward it being Cole.

Theoretically, Player 2 could be Dzingel, although he wasn't married at the time (although maybe he said "wife" referring to his at-the-time girlfriend). He also I think could be considered as having a bit of an "axe to grind" with the organization; his time here cost him a lot of money, which I think was mostly his fault, but maybe he'd blame Torts. Both of those make me think it's extremely, extremely unlikely it's him.

I kinda think Player 1 is Hartnell. Would have had to have been a player who was there in 2015-16 and probably pre-Torts in 2014-15, too (reference to some sucky seasons - plural. He did say fun seasons, also plural, which is my only hesitancy toward him since he was only here for one 'good' season, but theoretically, even the bad seasons could've been 'fun') and gone by the 2018-19 season. Also, the way he answered the questions in the article, not just what he said but how he said it totally comes across as Hartnell to me. But definitely not 'sure' about it.

Would need to think more about Player 3, could be a decent number of guys. I'd feel more confident that it was Letestu if it wasn't for his signing with the organization in 2018-19; if he had gone somewhere else after the 2017-18 season, I'd be more likely to think it was him.
 

Long Live Lyle

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Remember Carpool with the Captain sponsored by Huntington?
Do you know how many local ads feature Torts, Rimer, or Shelley? Now, how many feature a *current player?* (As you mentioned, a bit unclear if that falls under the team's purview or the agents.)
A bit hard to remember some stuff pre-covid -> things like attending a Crew or Clippers game (it's not really marketing, but more community involvement) or the Nationwide Children's Days. Not technically "marketing" but some community involvement type of stuff, which would maybe fall more into your #3.
Less of a player marketing thing, but do people remember the away game watch parties for the playoffs? Almost every other franchise does something cool, with thousands of people gathering somewhere to watch an away game. The Jackets? They had people go to Pins (bar). Just so utterly lame in comparison.
I'm not a marketing person, but it sounded like those guys were lamenting the fact that seemingly the only local ads that players have been in for the last decade were Dubinsky (Meyers Jewelers) and Wisniewski (come be a poker superstar at the casino!). Again, not a marketing person, so maybe I'm misunderstanding.

There was also Foligno with Papa John's, but that's pretty much it. I have no idea how Cam has never been front and center on some Cbus company's ads. CBJ lifer, popular, charismatic... I have no idea if that'd be the team's fault in any way or not, but it's very strange that Rimer does more commercials than a guy like Atkinson.
 

DarkandStormy

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"Player 3: I was surprised by the fan support. You play there and you hear the cannon. It seems similar to a lot of other places in the league. But then you get on a run and you get in the playoffs, and you realize, “Wow, people are really fired up about this and it’s loud.” That was unexpected for me."

I remember Duchene almost word for word saying this. I'm not a clairvoyant, but he has to be in the running for Player 3

Also Player 3:
I wanted to stay there, but I never got the sense it was possible. If guys want to be there and you have a winning culture, you have to do everything you can to keep it together. I have a ton of respect for Jarmo, but I feel like Columbus always has their eye on the future, what they can build, without maybe recognizing what they already have. I’ll never forget our exit meetings after my last season there. We had a great season. We were so excited about the future. And then after a bunch of us players had our (exit) meetings, we were sitting around in the room just kind of stunned. “Wait. Am I going to be back? Shouldn’t we all be back?” And a bunch of us kind of realized that was it, we were moving on. I was sad as hell, to be honest.

I would have signed in Columbus for less than I got on the market. That didn’t matter to me. What mattered to me was having a chance to win and having a good role.

Given that it seemed Duchene was only destined for Nashville, I don't think he is Player 3. I think Jarmo/the FO also leaked their offer to Duchene, which was more than he got in Nashville.

Player 3 does note that "a bunch of us kind of realized that was it, we were moving on," so I think player 3 left via free agency in a year in which multiple guys left the team. Gagner and Quincey left after the '17 season (had a "great season") that year...Gagner probably wanted to stay, but the "exit meetings after my last season" does seem to imply he was here for multiple seasons (could be word choice, though). Cole and Jack Johnson both left after 2018.
 

DarkandStormy

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There was also Foligno with Papa John's, but that's pretty much it. I have no idea how Cam has never been front and center on some Cbus company's ads. CBJ lifer, popular, charismatic... I have no idea if that'd be the team's fault in any way or not, but it's very strange that Rimer does more commercials than a guy like Atkinson.

Completely forgot Foligno's Favorite, tbh.
 

Cyclones Rock

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Thoughts on the content, apart from my fascination in determining who's who...

1) Sounds like there's a disconnect with creating a culture, that there's a lot of focus to doing it on-ice but not that much for off-ice. Amenities are OK, the city's OK, and we know Nick's thing is to do guy stuff and family stuff with teammates. But there's something missing there. SOunds like Jarmo is a part of it but that it's above him too.

My take as well. It seems like it's a job half done-but not in the sense that it's halfway done on it's way to being fully done.

Jarmo preaches culture and commitment but has played vicious hardball with RFAs-the younger types who-one would think- be key long term components of the "culture". After almost a decade, it's pretty clear that Jarmo isn't the guy who is going to build the type of environment which attracts/keeps players to/in a (perceived) lesser city like Columbus and builds a positive enduring culture.

The next GM (hopefully soon) can overcome this perception, I would think, quite easily. If Detroit and Pittsburgh don't give pause to players, then Columbus shouldn't either. I would think that a few key players who have likeable personalities could be the glue for building the culture, but it needs to be orchestrated from the top and Jarmo ain't the guy to do it.
 
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Double-Shift Lasse

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My take as well. It seems like it's a job half done-but not in the sense that it's halfway done on it's way to being fully done.

Jarmo preaches culture and commitment but has played vicious hardball with RFAs-the younger types who-one would think- be key long term components of the "culture". After almost a decade, it's pretty clear that Jarmo isn't the guy who is going to build the type of environment which attracts/keeps players to/in a (perceived) lesser city like Columbus and builds a positive enduring culture.

The next GM (hopefully soon) can overcome this perception, I would think, quite easily. If Detroit and Pittsburgh don't give pause to players, then Columbus shouldn't either. I would think that a few key players who have likeable personalities could be the glue for building the culture, but it needs to be orchestrated from the top and Jarmo ain't the guy to do it.

There is most definitely some Jarmo-ness to all of that, but most of the guys we're talking about as possibles for this article were around when Zito was here, and wasn't he the point person for contracts?
 
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Cyclones Rock

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There is most definitely some Jarmo-ness to all of that, but most of the guys we're talking about as possibles for this article were around when Zito was here, and wasn't he the point person for contracts?

I'm looking at the issue a little more broadly than contract negotiations. In any case, Zito reported to Jarmo and if there was a problem there it was Jarmo's to address.
 
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There was also Foligno with Papa John's, but that's pretty much it. I have no idea how Cam has never been front and center on some Cbus company's ads. CBJ lifer, popular, charismatic... I have no idea if that'd be the team's fault in any way or not, but it's very strange that Rimer does more commercials than a guy like Atkinson.

Don’t agents do that stuff?

I feel like the ‘don’t market’ thing is just a thing we say because in the 80s the NBA lucked into Magic-Bird and then Jordan and then it’s became super popular. And so now the NBA knows how to market and everyone else...

Mike Trout is the poster child for sports media guys going ‘I don’t know what he looks like blah blah blah’.

So I still feel like someone needs to explain this concept to me. As someone who’s only dabbled in formal marketing...
 

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