Former Canucks Thread 2023-24 Edition

[MS]

Linden was a bit of an underachiever in the regular season (although nothing major) but an absolute monster in the playoffs and I'm not sure how anyone who watched those playoff performances can't be a big fan of what he did as a player.

Was a plus skater with one of the best power moves to the net in the NHL early in his career but that aspect of his game never recovered after his 1997 knee injury.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Linden was a bit of an underachiever in the regular season (although nothing major) but an absolute monster in the playoffs and I'm not sure how anyone who watched those playoff performances can't be a big fan of what he did as a player.

Was a plus skater with one of the best power moves to the net in the NHL early in his career but that aspect of his game never recovered after his 1997 knee injury.

If you actually dig into his old highlights after not watching him for years and hearing it repeated again and again that he was a big body who could skate, his vision and puck skills stand out too. He did almost everything fairly well.

 

[MS]

If you actually dig into his old highlights after not watching him for years and hearing it repeated again and again that he was a big body who could skate, his vision and puck skills stand out too. He did almost everything fairly well.

Oh, absolutely. Prime Linden circa 1990-94 in particular was a very skilled player.

Once his legs went, he was able to play another 10 years because of those puck skills.

There are probably some alternate universes where he puts up a 90-100 point season or two. But he sometimes seemed to struggle for motivation and consistency over the long grind of an NHL regular season, the NHLPA stuff was a distraction, and he never really got the opportunity to play on a high-octane top line with star NHL players. When he was on the top line, it wasn't a very skilled top line, and then once Bure arrived Linden's line was usually the 2nd line.

The scoring splits in 1991-92 in particular are crazy/fascinating.

The first half of that season, Linden scored 50 points in 40 games - 100 point pace. His line was clearly the top line. But as that season went along, Bure exploded in the 2nd half to win the Calder and his line with Larionov became the de facto top line to close out the season. Linden's line becomes the 2nd line and Linden scores 25 points in the last 40 games.

 

[RobertKron]

Linden was a bit of an underachiever in the regular season (although nothing major) but an absolute monster in the playoffs and I'm not sure how anyone who watched those playoff performances can't be a big fan of what he did as a player.

Was a plus skater with one of the best power moves to the net in the NHL early in his career but that aspect of his game never recovered after his 1997 knee injury.

It may be unfair, but my assumption is usually that folks who talk about him in that way only knew the second-stint Linden.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

It may be unfair, but my assumption is usually that folks who talk about him in that way only knew the second-stint Linden.

The latter half of his career is part of why I say he's a bit overrated by Canucks fans. IMO, you have to take the full span of a player, not just a very specific segment.

He is one of my favorite players and, tbh, was what got me into hockey and the Canucks, but he was just a notch below other guys. It's not meant to denigrate him, either.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Oh, absolutely. Prime Linden circa 1990-94 in particular was a very skilled player.

Once his legs went, he was able to play another 10 years because of those puck skills.

There are probably some alternate universes where he puts up a 90-100 point season or two. But he sometimes seemed to struggle for motivation and consistency over the long grind of an NHL regular season, the NHLPA stuff was a distraction, and he never really got the opportunity to play on a high-octane top line with star NHL players. When he was on the top line, it wasn't a very skilled top line, and then once Bure arrived Linden's line was usually the 2nd line.

The scoring splits in 1991-92 in particular are crazy/fascinating.

The first half of that season, Linden scored 50 points in 40 games - 100 point pace. His line was clearly the top line. But as that season went along, Bure exploded in the 2nd half to win the Calder and his line with Larionov became the de facto top line to close out the season. Linden's line becomes the 2nd line and Linden scores 25 points in the last 40 games.

by the time i got to your third paragraph i was about to start in on his first half of the 91-92 season. but obviously you beat me to it.

new years day in 1992, linden was 10th in pts. he had 49 pts in 39 games. eventual hart trophy messier had 52 pts in 39. sakic had 51 in 38. oates had 49 in 38. the young pre-injury roenick had 48 in 40. recchi had 46 in 39. so this was the company he was keeping and he absolutely was thought to be breaking out as a true star.

does that mean he truly belonged in the conversation with those superstars? well no. that was linden in the best regular season stretch of his career, getting the best offensive opportunities. but it does show what he could do. in the second half, larionov and bure became the go to line, with larionov scoring at over a pt/game pace and bure scoring almost a goal a game doen the stretch. under different circumstances, linden could have produced like damphousse or brind’amour instead of being the 70-75 pt guy that he was.

to me, diminishing linden like he was andrew cassels or something is always the hottest take. what ppl who weren’t there don’t realize is everything ppl love about jt miller now, extremely powerful skater, excellent fundamentals, setting the tone physically, and just being a tower of strength when nothing else is working, that was young linden. not quite miller’s offensive upside, but those are all the same reasons people loved linden.

 

[Bubbles]

Ben Hutton quietly played his 500th NHL game last week. Not bad for a 5th rounder.

 

[MS]

by the time i got to your third paragraph i was about to start in on his first half of the 91-92 season. but obviously you beat me to it.

new years day in 1992, linden was 10th in pts. he had 49 pts in 39 games. eventual hart trophy messier had 52 pts in 39. sakic had 51 in 38. oates had 49 in 38. the young pre-injury roenick had 48 in 40. recchi had 46 in 39. so this was the company he was keeping and he absolutely was thought to be breaking out as a true star.

does that mean he truly belonged in the conversation with those superstars? well no. that was linden in the best regular season stretch of his career, getting the best offensive opportunities. but it does show what he could do. in the second half, larionov and bure became the go to line, with larionov scoring at over a pt/game pace and bure scoring almost a goal a game doen the stretch. under different circumstances, linden could have produced like damphousse or brind’amour instead of being the 70-75 pt guy that he was.

to me, diminishing linden like he was andrew cassels or something is always the hottest take. what ppl who weren’t there don’t realize is everything ppl love about jt miller now, extremely powerful skater, excellent fundamentals, setting the tone physically, and just being a tower of strength when nothing else is working, that was young linden. not quite miller’s offensive upside, but those are all the same reasons people loved linden.

Yeah, that half-season in 1991-92 is really the only time he got to be a 1st line player on a good team with good linemates.

I think he was more talented than Kirk Muller but Muller put up two 94-point seasons because his career and opportunities unfolded a bit differently.

I will say that there was always a percentage of the fanbase that hated Linden because he was the captain and he didn't get in fights, and constantly compared him negatively to the Neely/Shanahan crowd. I can distinctly remember a caller on one of the radio shows in the early-mid 1990s ranting that 'if your captain doesn't have 200 PIMs he's not a captain!'

 

[HairyKneel]

It may be unfair, but my assumption is usually that folks who talk about him in that way only knew the second-stint Linden.

I watched him play his entire career. He had some very good playoffs early on. Gave the team everything he had. That said to me his regular seasons were just ok imho. Contrast that to the twins, Bure, Miller, Pettersson.

 

[Scumbag Frank]

 

[MS]

Calgary gave Jurmo an ELC, so it will be interesting to see how that goes for a guy who was a depth/fringe Liiga player.

Edit - and missed the post above saying the same thing.

 

[Lindgren]

Perhaps the Canucks will regret trading off these players.

Or perhaps in signing them the Flames management will show their thinking to be somewhat similar to the Canucks under Benning: "We'll prove these are good players by signing them."

 

[McDavid is too whiny]

Perhaps the Canucks will regret trading off these players.

Or perhaps in signing them the Flames management will show their thinking to be somewhat similar to the Canucks under Benning: "We'll prove these are good players by signing them."

You absolutely know Jim Benning and John Weisbrod used to laugh about how the fans were stupid and didn't know any better anyway.

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

A buddy of mine just ran into BMo at the gym lolololol.

 

[Zippgunn]

He's had one 6 game hot streak in 2022 and one 5 game hot streak this year and managed to turn that into $2.3m. Otherwise he's performed at the level of an AHL backup throughout his career.

Of all NHL goalies in the last 3 seasons who have played as much as he has, he has the lowest save percentage. He's given up about 0.5 goals per game more than an average NHL goalie would.

Spencer Martin is not an NHL level goalie.



Can't remember a worse stretch of play by a Canucks' goalie in the last 20 years. That said, we've been blessed with some good goalies so his play seemed all the more shocking.

...during his initial "6 game "hot" streak" he went 3-3. Not really all that hot IMHO...

 

[rypper]

A buddy of mine just ran into BMo at the gym lolololol.

Was he doing weighted hip thrusts?

 

[F A N]

I thought the cycling was something Linden picked up later in his career? Beyond that, I'm not sure why you'd imagine he was cycling for hockey skill development.

I didn't say that at all.

FWIW, yeah the fitness freak shit was certainly an element, but IIRC Brind'amour also pretty much always played his career with a pretty heavy group of high-end players around him. Hull and Oates in St. Louis, Recchi, Lindros, et al in Philly. He's actually a decent example for what OP is talking about when you contrast that with the multifaceted heavy lifting Linden would be expected to do every night during his heyday with the Canucks.

Brind'Amour also had the benefit of not getting dumped straight into the NHL as a powerforward and franchise player in his D+1.

Edit: Yeah, Linden's wife got into cycling in the later 90s, and he got heavy into it over the 04 lockout. Bit of a weird post.

I recall reading that Linden was riding his bike in the offseason as that was what he liked to do. Mind you, we are talking about 1990s where teams were still in the midst of hiring their first ever strength and conditioning coach (the Canucks were actually ahead of the curve). Offseason training was certainly not as homogeneous as it is now.

Point is that there was a whole lot less training guidance and instructions for players in the 1990s. There's no one since fits all, but once Linden started losing his edge he didn't commit to improving his game, whether because the culture wasn't there or otherwise. If you look at Brind'Amour's training he spent a lot of time in the gym - some of the exercises he did would hold up today. Brind'Amour was doing what he loved but what he was doing helped him more than what Linden was doing.

Take the Sedins. They hired a skating coach in Sweden. They started doing one-legged squats. They did things meant to improve their game and they did.

Linden's size, skating, and skill level (with today's training) would allow him to play in any era. You can plant him in front of the net or in a bumper role on the PP and he would put up points today.

 

[TropicOfNoReturn]

Ben Hutton quietly played his 500th NHL game last week. Not bad for a 5th rounder.

How is he still in the league.

It's depressing to think that there was a time when he was seen as a glimmer of hope for the Canucks. That's how dark it looked. Man, he was terrible.

 

[MS]

How is he still in the league.

It's depressing to think that there was a time when he was seen as a glimmer of hope for the Canucks. That's how dark it looked. Man, he was terrible.

?

He was excellent until his career was nearly sunk by Travis Green and Erik Gudbranson.

There's a reason he's hung around for 500 NHL games even after his development was totally bungled by the organization.

 

[M2Beezy]

A buddy of mine just ran into BMo at the gym lolololol.

Banks running gyms seems odd to me

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

How is he still in the league.

It's depressing to think that there was a time when he was seen as a glimmer of hope for the Canucks. That's how dark it looked. Man, he was terrible.

Lol what? He's a good depth guy.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

How is he still in the league.

It's depressing to think that there was a time when he was seen as a glimmer of hope for the Canucks. That's how dark it looked. Man, he was terrible.

He was terrible in his last years here..He was out of shape ,and admitted as much.

He’s carved a career out as #6-7 in the league..Good for him.

 

[TropicOfNoReturn]

?

He was excellent until his career was nearly sunk by Travis Green and Erik Gudbranson.

There's a reason he's hung around for 500 NHL games even after his development was totally bungled by the organization.

Maybe I'm just so jaded from the awful team the Canucks were trotting out during his tenure here and I'm using him as a scapegoat.

I just remember thinking when he left Vancouver that he was done in the NHL.

Good for him though, making a solid career out of it

 

[Angry Little Elf]

Ben Hutton quietly played his 500th NHL game last week. Not bad for a 5th rounder.

Quietly roaring back

 

[MS]

Maybe I'm just so jaded from the awful team the Canucks were trotting out during his tenure here and I'm using him as a scapegoat.

I just remember thinking when he left Vancouver that he was done in the NHL.

Good for him though, making a solid career out of it

He absolutely screwed himself when he left Vancouver.

Montreal offered him 3 years/$9 million and he hesitated on it and then they pivoted to Ben Chiarot at roughly the same dollars ... and he got left without a chair and had to take the PTO with LA.

No arguments that he struggled in his last couple years here but it was terrible coaching and the insistence on playing him with the awful Gudbranson killed him. His results were great playing with anyone else and horrible with #44.