Former Canucks Thread 2023-24 Edition

[Zippgunn]

Poster zip gun confirmed furious

Possibly the worst goalie ever to play for the Canucks...

 

[I am toxic]

Good for Martin sticking around at the NHL level.

Those posts denigrating Martin, and referring to him as an AHL backup , didn't age well.

No surprise.

 

[RobertKron]

Possibly the worst goalie ever to play for the Canucks...

Poster zip gun confirmed first started watching Canucks during pandemic quarantine.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Before too many folks shit on Willy Desjardins, he was easily the best dancer behind the bench. The guy had some moves!

Trevor Linden crying at 28 in an NHL dressing room is hardly surprising.

Horrible take.

 

[MS]

Those posts denigrating Martin, and referring to him as an AHL backup , didn't age well.

No surprise.

He still sucks, and was waived by CBJ a month ago after being total ass there.

 

[Zippgunn]

Poster zip gun confirmed first started watching Canucks during pandemic quarantine.

Good God man he lost 10 games in a row. What other Canuck goalie has done that?

 

[Ernie]

Those posts denigrating Martin, and referring to him as an AHL backup , didn't age well.

No surprise.

He's had one 6 game hot streak in 2022 and one 5 game hot streak this year and managed to turn that into $2.3m. Otherwise he's performed at the level of an AHL backup throughout his career.

Of all NHL goalies in the last 3 seasons who have played as much as he has, he has the lowest save percentage. He's given up about 0.5 goals per game more than an average NHL goalie would.

Spencer Martin is not an NHL level goalie.

Good God man he lost 10 games in a row. What other Canuck goalie has done that?

Can't remember a worse stretch of play by a Canucks' goalie in the last 20 years. That said, we've been blessed with some good goalies so his play seemed all the more shocking.

 

[Lindgren]

Stecher has an assist tonight, his first point as an Oiler.

He needs ten more games the rest of the way to hit 500 for his career.

 

[I am toxic]

He's had one 6 game hot streak in 2022 and one 5 game hot streak this year and managed to turn that into $2.3m. Otherwise he's performed at the level of an AHL backup throughout his career.

Of all NHL goalies in the last 3 seasons who have played as much as he has, he has the lowest save percentage. He's given up about 0.5 goals per game more than an average NHL goalie would.

Spencer Martin is not an NHL level goalie.



Can't remember a worse stretch of play by a Canucks' goalie in the last 20 years. That said, we've been blessed with some good goalies so his play seemed all the more shocking.

Your post is clueless.

People in the NHL - and those who understand goaltending- understand why his numbers are what they are.

It's not a coincidence that both times he was put on waivers, he was claimed.

AHL backup my ass.

Wait, that didn't come out right.

 

[bandwagonesque]

It's not a coincidence that both times he was put on waivers, he was claimed.

That's a bit like saying that both times you vomited after drinking a bottle of Triple Sec from your mother's liquor cabinet, you made it to the bathroom.

 

[bandwagonesque]

AHL backup my ass.

 

[Ernie]

Your post is clueless.

People in the NHL - and those who understand goaltending- understand why his numbers are what they are.

It's not a coincidence that both times he was put on waivers, he was claimed.

AHL backup my ass.

Wait, that didn't come out right.

This is ridiculous. NHL managers are terrible at evaluating goaltending. There are few goalies that you bank on and that can only be established by their lengthy statistical profiles. Goalies are notorious for getting hot and cold at odd times, a lot of that can be explained by statistical noise (as is most likely the case with Martin), but obviously there are psychological aspects as well.

Anyways, if Martin has such good projectable skills, why did he play in the AHL so long? Aside from the 11 games that I mentioned, what has he done in the NHL to establish himself at this level?

 

[F A N]

This is ridiculous. NHL managers are terrible at evaluating goaltending. There are few goalies that you bank on and that can only be established by their lengthy statistical profiles. Goalies are notorious for getting hot and cold at odd times, a lot of that can be explained by statistical noise (as is most likely the case with Martin), but obviously there are psychological aspects as well.

Anyways, if Martin has such good projectable skills, why did he play in the AHL so long? Aside from the 11 games that I mentioned, what has he done in the NHL to establish himself at this level?

Well the way we did it here under the previous regime was rely on our Director of Goaltending/Goalie Coach. Not sure if we still do that or other teams do it. We could also get into a discussion about the merits of relying on your goalie coach as your chief (and at times only) scout for goalies.

But I think you guys are getting lost in the weeds here a bit. Martin is being paid league minimum money on a one way contract. That means he's expected to be an NHL backup or #1 guy in the AHL. Is he an established NHL backup goalie? No. His career, contract, and being on waivers suggest he isn't. Is he an NHL calibre backup goalie? Well his contract and being picked up on waivers/being on an NHL roster suggest that he is.

I've said this many times before. The ideal backup goalie is someone who can come in after sitting for weeks on end and give you a good performance and be able to string along some good performances when your #1 is out with an injury. Not every goalie can do that. Anders Nilsson, for example, was much better with the latter than the former.

I myself think Martin can play in the NHL. He's not going to look good playing behind a bad team. If he was, he would be getting a ~$2M contract from a rebuilding team.

 

[HairyKneel]

Horrible take.

Big Linden fan I take it… Most overrated player in team history.

 

[bandwagonesque]

If Linden had been on nearly any other team early in his career he probably would have scored 40-50 goals a couple of times.

 

[EpochLink]

Big Linden fan I take it… Most overrated player in team history.

Linden after 1996 was sorta mid, injuries sorta derailed his career from there on

 

[HairyKneel]

If Linden had been on nearly any other team early in his career he probably would have scored 40-50 goals a couple of times.

Based on what?

This is a puzzling take.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Big Linden fan I take it… Most overrated player in team history.

I'm a fan of him, but I agree that he's overrated, even when accounting for the fact that the Canucks have largely been a sadsack organization over the years.

 

[RobertKron]

Based on what?

This is a puzzling take.

50 might be high, but 20 year old Linden was a 30whatever goal scorer - for the second time in his 3 year career - on a team that he also led by 25 points. I don't think it's at all outlandish to imagine he could have produced more in a different situation with fewer all around responsibilities.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Based on what?

This is a puzzling take.

His speed, shot, and skill level, and the fact that he scored 30+ regularly with largely shitty linemates before his injuries started. He never played with a good centre and was eventually converted to centre because the team hadn't developed one in years.

 

[HairyKneel]

His speed, shot, and skill level, and the fact that he scored 30+ regularly with largely shitty linemates before his injuries started. He never played with a good centre and was eventually converted to centre because the team hadn't developed one in years.

Courtnall, Ronning, Adams and Bure were shitty linemates?

Pettersson should be so lucky.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Courtnall, Ronning, Adams and Bure were shitty linemates?

Pettersson should be so lucky.

Apart from Bure, who he only played with after converting to centre, yes, in terms of constituting a first line. They were solid 2nd liners scoring 60-80 points in an era when that didn't mean much. For a few years Linden had practically no linemates, then he had two 2nd liners in Courtnall and Ronning, then he shifted to centre with Bure and took on an enormous defensive responsibility. If he'd played on the f***ing Hartford Whalers he'd at least have had Ron Francis.

 

[HairyKneel]

Apart from Bure, who he only played with after converting to centre, yes, in terms of constituting a first line. They were solid 2nd liners scoring 60-80 points in an era when that didn't mean much. For a few years Linden had practically no linemates, then he had two 2nd liners in Courtnall and Ronning, then he shifted to centre with Bure and took on an enormous defensive responsibility. If he'd played on the f***ing Hartford Whalers he'd at least have had Ron Francis.

Maybe if he went to Hartford in the draft then we’d have picked a better player in 88 from Campbell River

 

[F A N]

Trevor Linden's preparation in the summer involved him riding his bike. That's what he loved to do. Kept him in good shape fitness wise but hardly improved his skills. Compare him to Rod the Bod who was constantly working out in the gym and it shouldn't surprise anyone that Brind'Amour aged better.

 

[RobertKron]

Trevor Linden's preparation in the summer involved him riding his bike. That's what he loved to do. Kept him in good shape fitness wise but hardly improved his skills. Compare him to Rod the Bod who was constantly working out in the gym and it shouldn't surprise anyone that Brind'Amour aged better.

I thought the cycling was something Linden picked up later in his career? Beyond that, I'm not sure why you'd imagine he was cycling for hockey skill development.

FWIW, yeah the fitness freak shit was certainly an element, but IIRC Brind'amour also pretty much always played his career with a pretty heavy group of high-end players around him. Hull and Oates in St. Louis, Recchi, Lindros, et al in Philly. He's actually a decent example for what OP is talking about when you contrast that with the multifaceted heavy lifting Linden would be expected to do every night during his heyday with the Canucks.

Brind'Amour also had the benefit of not getting dumped straight into the NHL as a powerforward and franchise player in his D+1.

Edit: Yeah, Linden's wife got into cycling in the later 90s, and he got heavy into it over the 04 lockout. Bit of a weird post.