Flyers town hall meeting (alternate jersey for 2014-15)

[kelmitchell]

LSchenn - Lecavalier - BSchenn?

That sounds like a stellar 4th line.

sounds like a line that will make this team a true contender

 

[Funf]

I really don't want Umberger on the top line next year. Hopefully Berube will at least try Schenn there. I mean, Hextall wants him there, right? I'd imagine Hexy holds a little sway...

 

[deadhead]

Love how Berube said they are focusing on speed...yet the Schenns are still on this team..especially Luke.

Yeah, because with no cap room, no prospects coming up for another year (because they traded all their draft picks for years) Hextall should be able to dump players for talented players and sign free agents with no money.

I don't know why people criticize Holmgren, the more I read threads around here, Holmgren was like the majority of people who post here, seeking instant gratification with no sense of reality.

Teams that are in it for the long haul are patient, don't make moves for the sake of making moves, husband their resources, and are constantly looking to upgrade their talent level, not just move players around to proclaim a "new look Flyers."

 

[ILoveStephanieBrown]

Yeah, because with no cap room, no prospects coming up for another year (because they traded all their draft picks for years) Hextall should be able to dump players for talented players and sign free agents with no money.

I don't know why people criticize Holmgren, the more I read threads around here, Holmgren was like the majority of people who post here, seeking instant gratification with no sense of reality.

Teams that are in it for the long haul are patient, don't make moves for the sake of making moves, husband their resources, and are constantly looking to upgrade their talent level, not just move players around to proclaim a "new look Flyers."

It's always puzzled me as well. I think a lot here have bi polar disorder.

 

[Embiid]

Yeah, because with no cap room, no prospects coming up for another year (because they traded all their draft picks for years) Hextall should be able to dump players for talented players and sign free agents with no money.

I don't know why people criticize Holmgren, the more I read threads around here, Holmgren was like the majority of people who post here, seeking instant gratification with no sense of reality.

Teams that are in it for the long haul are patient, don't make moves for the sake of making moves, husband their resources, and are constantly looking to upgrade their talent level, not just move players around to proclaim a "new look Flyers."

You missed my point completely...I was being ironic/sarcastic. Yes we are stuck with them for the time being b/c of Holmgren (hence the plea for help) despite the fact that they don't fit the vision going forward (especially Luke)..that is what I was ironically trying to point out.

Also this is why I was a proponent of getting rid of BOTH Lavi and Holmgren last offseason..so that there would be some continuity going forward. Instead we had to wait another year after nitwit Lavi until Holmgren finally got out of the way.

 

[blinds]

Oh God, Berube is scaring me talking about Umberger and Raffl on the top line. These guys shouldn't even be sniffing the top 6. We're just wasting Giroux's potential giving him **** linemates, he needs a goal scorer not a role player.

 

[flyershockey]

Oh God, Berube is scaring me talking about Umberger and Raffl on the top line. These guys shouldn't even be sniffing the top 6. We're just wasting Giroux's potential giving him **** linemates, he needs a goal scorer not a role player.

Berube loves Raffl as much as he hated Hartnell. I always get a kick out of projected rosters with him as a fourth line winger. He's almost guaranteed to be in the top nine somewhere.

Umberger on the first line though? Kill that idea with fire.

 

[Striiker]

Like I've said, Berube is a horrible coach and a detriment to this team. He's going to **** up the lines and seriously hurt the team.

 

[FlyTimmo]

I don't know what some of you guys are talking about but Raffl is pretty good. There are worse things then having him with Giroux and Voracek. At least he can keep up with them and make smart plays. All he needs to do is work on his finishing ability.

 

[Jack Straw]

I don't know what some of you guys are talking about but Raffl is pretty good. There are worse things then having him with Giroux and Voracek. At least he can keep up with them and make smart plays. All he needs to do is work on his finishing ability.

I agree. Considering he came over from Sweden's 2nd tier league and had no experience with the North American game I thought he was extremely impressive. His finish was really the only thing lacking and even there he showed some ability. I don't know if he'll really be a true first line LW but definitely a good 2nd/3rd line type.

 

[Striiker]

Raffl would be fine, obviously Schenn would be much better. As long as it's not Umberger.

 

[Random Forest]

I'm not concerned about the 1LW spot for Giroux or Voracek. Those two are going to score regardless of who is with them (realistic options, of course).

Umberger (and Raffl even) may not be ideal, but it's not going to hold Giroux back. The guy just got a Hart nomination playing the full year with Hartnell/Raffl.

I'm only concerned about that spot from BSchenn's perspective. It's realistically his best fit on the team moving forward and it would be good for his development.


Umberger-Giroux-Voracek
Raffl-Schenn-Simmonds
Akeson/Laughton-Couturier-Read
Bellemarre-Lecavalier-Ott (or whoever this "role player" is)


I just can't see Berube giving Lecavalier a top nine role. It will be bad for Vinny's trade value, but that's what I think Berube is thinking right now. This isn't what I would have, but it's also not the worst case scenario if it is indeed the direction Berube takes the team. I'd at least be comfortable with this lineup if not totally pleased.

I also agree with those who can't see Berube leaving Raffl out of the top nine. Hopefully he takes a step forward, though.

 

[flyershockey]

I don't know what some of you guys are talking about but Raffl is pretty good. There are worse things then having him with Giroux and Voracek. At least he can keep up with them and make smart plays. All he needs to do is work on his finishing ability.

Agreed. Raffl is actually a pretty damn good possession winger with speed, especially through the neutral zone. If his finishing improves, he could be become a legitimate top six goal scoring winger. I'd want to give Schenn the first shot at LW on the first line, but Raffl could slide in there nicely should Schenn fall on his face. He'd also look pretty decent on the left side of Couturier or Vinny.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I don't see Raffl as anything more than a good bottom 6 player. I want zero parts of him in our top 6. He's strong on the puck & along the boards but that's where it basically stops with him offensively.

I also disagree with notion that he kept up with Giroux & Voracek last year. Berube who has a weird obsession with the dude even admitted in that meeting that Raffl on the first line last year didn't work out.

 

[flyershockey]

I don't see Raffl as anything more than a good bottom 6 player. I want zero parts of him in our top 6. He's strong on the puck & along the boards but that's where it basically stops with him offensively.

I also disagree with notion that he kept up with Giroux & Voracek last year. Berube who has a weird obsession with the dude even admitted in that meeting that Raffl on the first line last year didn't work out.

It's also a matter of not really having many options for that spot. We're pretty much depending on Schenn taking that role and running with it. Besides him, Raffl is the next best option. Umberger is a lesser version of Raffl at this point.

 

[Flyotes]

I want a good first line LW. His linemates do hold Giroux back.

It's pathetic, honestly. Not that I have a plan on generating a LWer out of thin air, either.

Raffl/Hartnell (formerly)/Schenn experiment incoming/Umberger?

C'mon. That's like owning a 2 cylinder Corvette. If I were an opposing coach, I'm a little worried about the Flyer's first line, but I'm not feeling overwhelmed by it. I'm not throwing Tort-like speeches trying to convince my team that those guys aren't much or anything special. The regular ole 'we can beat them' speech will do.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

It's also a matter of not really having many options for that spot. We're pretty much depending on Schenn taking that role and running with it. Besides him, Raffl is the next best option. Umberger is a lesser version of Raffl at this point.

Well there still is Read. Anyway I understand the options aren't great but that doesn't mean I have to be happy about seeing Raffl out there playing where he doesn't belong.

 

[Random Forest]

It's also a matter of not really having many options for that spot. We're pretty much depending on Schenn taking that role and running with it. Besides him, Raffl is the next best option. Umberger is a lesser version of Raffl at this point.

I don't know about that last part. Umberger can still be a strong net presence, and his size in front should at least make defenders respect him and hopefully open up room for 28 and 93. Raffl isn't really a presence that defenders concern themselves over.

And the thing about the 1LW spot is that this player doesn't need to be a strong possession guy or even one who can make plays with the puck on his stick. He needs to either be able to find open space to get those passes and rifle them, or he needs to be able to fight for space to tie up opposing defenders.

Schenn would be the first type, and Umberger could be the second. Raffl really is neither of those things, so he adds little to that line's effectiveness.

I agree with LOD that Raffl is the perfect bottom six type of player.

 

[Random Forest]

I want a good first line LW. His linemates do hold Giroux back.

It's pathetic, honestly. Not that I have a plan on generating a LWer out of thin air, either.

Raffl/Hartnell (formerly)/Schenn experiment incoming/Umberger?

C'mon. That's like owning a 2 cylinder Corvette. If I were an opposing coach, I'm a little worried about the Flyer's first line, but I'm not feeling overwhelmed by it. I'm not throwing Tort-like speeches trying to convince my team that those guys aren't much or anything special. The regular ole 'we can beat them' speech will do.

How much do you think it's holding Giroux back? Maybe he's a 95+ guy with an EKane or Bobby Ryan type, but frankly, there are other players being held back more than Giroux because of holes in the lineup. Couturier needs a strong two-way winger more than Giroux needs another sidekick.

To put it in terms of numbers-- I'd rather Giroux be his usual 85-90 point self and Couturier become a 50+ point guy than Giroux break 95 only for Couturier to remain around 40-45. It's all about maximizing your assets.

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

Umberger on the first line though? Kill that idea with fire.

Berube probably knows Umberger most as the Phantoms leading scorer in 04-05, and as one of the best Flyer forwards in the 08 playoff run. If playing him on the top line doesn't work, he'll try something else. I don't see it as that big of a deal.

 

[FlyTimmo]

He didn't look to bad to me. I noticed a huge difference between him and Hartnell on the first line. And I would much rather have Raffl on the 1st line than Umberger or Hartnell.

 

[flyershockey]

Well there still is Read. Anyway I understand the options aren't great but that doesn't mean I have to be happy about seeing Raffl out there playing where he doesn't belong.

You really want to separate Read and Couturier just to get another ten points or so out of Giroux? Ideally, Raffl wouldn't be in the running for a shot at that spot. We just don't have that many options after Schenn. He's the best of a list of bad options.

I don't know about that last part. Umberger can still be a strong net presence, and his size in front should at least make defenders respect him and hopefully open up room for 28 and 93. Raffl isn't really a presence that defenders concern themselves over.

And the thing about the 1LW spot is that this player doesn't need to be a strong possession guy or even one who can make plays with the puck on his stick. He needs to either be able to find open space to get those passes and rifle them, or he needs to be able to fight for space to tie up opposing defenders.

Schenn would be the first type, and Umberger could be the second. Raffl really is neither of those things, so he adds little to that line's effectiveness.

I agree with LOD that Raffl is the perfect bottom six type of player.

Raffl is more physical than you're giving him credit for. He's the right kind of physical for today's game as well. He's not going out of his way to take himself out of the play to run someone like Hartnell or Rinaldo. He's a lot like Simmonds in that he'll hit and play physical when the time calls for it.

Umberger can't keep up with Giroux and Voracek. Hartnell could barely do it and I still feel like he has better top end speed than Umberger. RJ wasn't close to a top line player when he was playing the best hockey of his career from 2008-2011.

I'd say it's really important that Schenn steps up and takes that spot, but you and I already know that. Outside of him, it's pretty much throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks.

 

[blinds]

All of you keep saying "If Raffl improves his finishing ability.." well the guy's 25 years old already. What indication is there at all that he can?

Finishing ability is all we need on that top line, Giroux and Voracek bring everything else (except maybe forecheck/net front presence, but we've seen Giroux getting to dirty areas more this past season). You don't give a guy top line minutes when he's 25 years old in the hope that he's going to find a new aspect to his game.. especially when that aspect that he's missing is the only aspect we need on that line.

Raffl has little to no offensive awareness and even less finishing ability, he simply shouldn't be in the top 6. He's 25, it's very unlikely he starts to produce at a top 6 rate out of nowhere. He scored 22 points and 9 goals last year getting pretty decent minutes, and you want to put him on the top line?

We all love Raffl for what he brings, Berube more than any of us apparently, but he's not a top 6 guy. It's that simple.

 

[flyershockey]

Berube probably knows Umberger most as the Phantoms leading scorer in 04-05, and as one of the best Flyer forwards in the 08 playoff run. If playing him on the top line doesn't work, he'll try something else. I don't see it as that big of a deal.

That was a decade ago.

 

[Flyotes]

How much do you think it's holding Giroux back?

A lot. The G lines haven't even been as dominating as the Hartnell-Briere-Leino line. Even if you could map out the production was the same or better -- the eye test defeats it. The Flyers haven't had a line like that since-- that line.

Maybe he's a 95+ guy with an EKane or Bobby Ryan type, but frankly, there are other players being held back more than Giroux because of holes in the lineup. Couturier needs a strong two-way winger more than Giroux needs another sidekick.

This is a reasonable objection. However, I think Giroux could break 100 points coupled with more primary assists than secondary ones and put teams into fits trying to stop him if he had a true slinger and if Voracek would start slinging more often. I desire this -- PLUS another solid two-way player for Couts.

It's all about maximizing your assets.

I hear you. I want to maximize Giroux-- but without damaging the team to do so. That's why I made my "thin air" comment.