Confirmed with Link: Flyers Sign 2019 3rd round pick Ronnie Attard (D) To 2-year ELC (Could make his NHL debut Saturday, April 2)

[FLYguy3911]

 

[GKJ]

Getting 47 so I guess they want to shake the stink off that number

 

[volnoir]

Getting 47 so I guess they want to shake the stink off that number

Time to make 47 great again

 

[deadhead]

When we make comparisons that rely on those three players being rough equals, it should probably be a sign to stop and think of a new angle of approach.

While we're at it, Gostisbehere has the most difficult 5v5 Forward QualComp of Arizona's Defensemen this year. Usually you value that.

My point is simply that people are getting carried away with his performance in Arizona.

It's not some huge rebound, it's just a player in a situation where he gets lot of ice time and a role that allows him to take more chances on offense - which is why I predicted he'd have 40+ points before the season.

The fact that three other Zona D-men have similar scoring rates (Chychrun is better, the other two are raw prospects who would probably be in the AHL for a playoff team, marinating) tells me it's as much about scheme - because you rarely see more than one or two D-men score at that rate, and they're usually established top 4 offensive D-men.

There were no rumors about Ghost at the TDL, if some team was offering a 1st, Zona would have used their last salary retention option to eat half his salary and take the pick. The league isn't fooled the way the Flyers were fooled by AMac (3rd pair D-man in 1st pair role). Braun got a 3rd b/c league saw him fade in the top four role and valued him as a #6 D-man.

Like I've said all along, on a good team Ghost would be the 3LHD and PP QB, like Yandle was on Florida last season.
And he'd have value in that role. More than Yandle last season b/c he's not a 5x5 liability.
He might have garnered a 2nd rd pick at the TDL if he was on a one year contract.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

My point is simply that people are getting carried away with his performance in Arizona.

It's not some huge rebound, it's just a player in a situation where he gets lot of ice time and a role that allows him to take more chances on offense - which is why I predicted he'd have 40+ points before the season.

The fact that three other Zona D-men have similar scoring rates (Chychrun is better, the other two are raw prospects who would probably be in the AHL for a playoff team, marinating) tells me it's as much about scheme - because you rarely see more than one or two D-men score at that rate, and they're usually established top 4 offensive D-men.

There were no rumors about Ghost at the TDL, if some team was offering a 1st, Zona would have used their last salary retention option to eat half his salary and take the pick. The league isn't fooled the way the Flyers were fooled by AMac (3rd pair D-man in 1st pair role). Braun got a 3rd b/c league saw him fade in the top four role and valued him as a #6 D-man.

Like I've said all along, on a good team Ghost would be the 3LHD and PP QB, like Yandle was on Florida last season.
And he'd have value in that role. More than Yandle last season b/c he's not a 5x5 liability.
He might have garnered a 2nd rd pick at the TDL if he was on a one year contract.

??????????????????????

*Edit*

Ohhhhh I get it now. You used ES instead of 5v5 numbers to make your point fit.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Shayne Gostisbehere had 3 primary assists 5v5 in his last two seasons with the Flyers. 83 games.

 

[Striiker]

??????????????????????

*Edit*

Ohhhhh I get it now. You used ES instead of 5v5 numbers to make your point fit.

Identical. Also notice his most common D partner is last in overall scoring rate.

Ghost is just lucky to play on a team that creates offense like Arizona. Anyone could score like that there.

 

[renberg]

For me the problem with SG, is like with many other players, it's not his play in the regular season; it's what happens in the POs, if he were to get into them. In the past opponents have run their offense against his side of the ice with good results. Until SG can get into a situation where he can prove that he's not a defensive liability in those situations he's really JAG.
Unfortunately for the last two seasons that he was here, he never had the opportunity to prove that he could refute his past reputation. AV never put him in a position to do that.

 

[Striiker]

Ghost was their best D the last time they were in the playoffs. I guess everyone’s a liability.

 

[sauce88]

I'd like to see the Flyers regularly make the playoffs like the other elite teams before fine tuning their player evaluations on playoff performances. That's how you overvalue a player like Ristolainen.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Ghost was abused by Pittsburgh in the 17/18 playoffs vs. Pittsburgh. Almost Yandle-level bad.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Once again, it’s ironic when a poster complains about the same tired topics being talked about only to throw out the same tired topics themselves.

It takes two to tango.

 

[sauce88]

Ghost was abused by Pittsburgh in the 17/18 playoffs vs. Pittsburgh. Almost Yandle-level bad.

Great, one playoff series where everyone but Couturier looked bad because Hakstol is not an NHL caliber coach.

 

[renberg]

Great, one playoff series where everyone but Couturier looked bad because Hakstol is not an NHL caliber coach.

However it got to be more than that. After Pittsburgh exposed him in the POs.other teams used that strategy in regular season games which SG never really overcame. Sure he could provide some offense but his defensive issues stood out with his play.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

However it got to be more than that. After Pittsburgh exposed him in the POs.other teams used that strategy in regular season games which SG never really overcame. Sure he could provide some offense but his defensive issues stood out with his play.

We don't always agree, but it's nice to have another voice point it out.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ghost is a top pair D-man on Arizona the way AMac was a top pair defenseman on the Islanders.

Now the version of Ghost that came out of Mt Union, if he stays healthy and learns some discipline (he was the Mt Union offense, which led to some bad habits), that was a top pair defenseman on any team. Unfortunately, after an ACL, groin and scoping both knees, the current Ghost is a shadow of that player.

MacDonald never had any season remotely like Ghost's.

That you need to make false comparisons to support your increasingly desperate anti-Ghost hysteria in defense of a terrible management decision reveals it's an indefensible position.

 

[Beef Invictus]

However it got to be more than that. After Pittsburgh exposed him in the POs.other teams used that strategy in regular season games which SG never really overcame. Sure he could provide some offense but his defensive issues stood out with his play.

But that isn't true. He improved defensively and the overall sum of his play resulted in low xGA. A certain group was unable to overcome their biases and preconceptions to recognize that, though, and they've screamed falsehood loudly enough that many believe it.

It's also really bizarre that Provorov never gets mentioned as part of that particular Pittsburgh narrative, either.

It isn't his fault we haven't had a coach who can win a matchup battle since Lavi was fired

 

[Hextallent63]

It's funny you called it extreme negativity, but it's not. It's accurate negativity completely in line with the state of the franchise. It's managed by a crony cabal who have no idea how modern hockey works, that has no plan for the future, that has refused to learn the realities of a capped league, and that has degraded the roster into a landfill while somehow losing a ton of assets that could be used to fix that situation. The team is in a far worse place now than it was in 2018 and that slide has only ever accelerated.. Not a single one of the bad processes started by Hextall has been fixed; they've just piled more bad methodology on top.

I think the problem is that you haven't grasped how dire the state of the team is, and it all starts up top so there's no fixing it.

I hear what Gbeer is saying but all you have to do is go back and watch the press conference and it validates everything Beef says and justifies any criticism. At this point in my mind, any negative comments or negative opinions on things with concerning anything especially player development at this point is kind of just rolling with the punches.

 

[Hextallent63]

Shayne Gostisbehere had 3 primary assists 5v5 in his last two seasons with the Flyers. 83 games.

getting the puck out of your zone in a timely fashion to aforward flying through the neutral zone is more important than primary assists, for example, deman gets its, makes a quick pass to player exiting the zone with speed. player with attacking possession goes into offensive zone with possession, makes a pass creating a shot on net thats deflected in or chipped in for a goal. primary assists for offensive dmen, in my opinion, are more of an example of how they produce on the pp.

 

[Larry44]

That would be a bad move....Nylander is ok as your 3rd or 4th option...as your primary option he'd likely be a disaster....he's not a player you build around imo....in Toronto he can suck for 20 games and hide behind Matthews and Marner....gets hot for a few weeks fans love him again here they'd look to him to lead the franchise and that won't work

Nylander is an extremely skilled player, no doubt. But he's in the doghouse in Toronto for disappearing again. Real fans in Philly would HATE a soft, skilled prettyboy who plays on the perimeter and effs the dog on the backcheck. He's like the Anti-Flyer.

 

[Hextallent63]

My point is simply that people are getting carried away with his performance in Arizona.

It's not some huge rebound, it's just a player in a situation where he gets lot of ice time and a role that allows him to take more chances on offense - which is why I predicted he'd have 40+ points before the season.

The fact that three other Zona D-men have similar scoring rates (Chychrun is better, the other two are raw prospects who would probably be in the AHL for a playoff team, marinating) tells me it's as much about scheme - because you rarely see more than one or two D-men score at that rate, and they're usually established top 4 offensive D-men.

There were no rumors about Ghost at the TDL, if some team was offering a 1st, Zona would have used their last salary retention option to eat half his salary and take the pick. The league isn't fooled the way the Flyers were fooled by AMac (3rd pair D-man in 1st pair role). Braun got a 3rd b/c league saw him fade in the top four role and valued him as a #6 D-man.

Like I've said all along, on a good team Ghost would be the 3LHD and PP QB, like Yandle was on Florida last season.
And he'd have value in that role. More than Yandle last season b/c he's not a 5x5 liability.
He might have garnered a 2nd rd pick at the TDL if he was on a one year contract.

simple thing with ghost is, regardless of ellis' injury, fletch payed to get rid of him when he is something we need. he was treated like a neg, when in reality hes a million times better then over half of our defensemen this year. another example of the management being terrible and not knowing how to use him to our benefit. i think fletch wanted fisto the day he was hired and ghost was in his way, regardless of what value gost had or could of had for the org because fletcher and company are dipshits. agree with him being a third pairing guy, but disagree if your saying hes not really worth it on a second pair.

 

[Hextallent63]

However it got to be more than that. After Pittsburgh exposed him in the POs.other teams used that strategy in regular season games which SG never really overcame. Sure he could provide some offense but his defensive issues stood out with his play.

i dont know, he was pretty good his last season here. probly our best dman because of the season provo had. if i remember correctly.

 

[Beef Invictus]

getting the puck out of your zone in a timely fashion to aforward flying through the neutral zone is more important than primary assists, for example, deman gets its, makes a quick pass to player exiting the zone with speed. player with attacking possession goes into offensive zone with possession, makes a pass creating a shot on net thats deflected in or chipped in for a goal. primary assists for offensive dmen, in my opinion, are more of an example of how they produce on the pp.

And getting the puck up ice and efficiently is the most effective defense there is. Hard for the other team to attack when your team is taking the puck into their end.

The team was a lot better in the last playoffs when Ghost was allowed to play, for that reason alone.

 

[BernieParent]

Me casually coming into a thread discussing this team:

 

[renberg]

It isn't his fault we haven't had a coach who can win a matchup battle since Lavi was fired

More players than Ghost have suffered from this. Hopefully the next HC will be able to put all of the players in positions where they can succeed. AV didn’t give a rip. He threw the guys out there according to his plans and if they failed, it was on them not him.