Flyers Players Mt. Rushmore

[Sawdalite]

Sometimes I wonder if Rick MacLeish deserves consideration for one of those last two spots due to his incredible playoff performances, particularly integral to the 2 Cup wins. And he is 5th all time in team points.

He was indeed considered... and there was a time he would have been an easy Selection for the Ballot.

Hawk was a much beloved Player for a very long time.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Lindros and Howe, Barber as a close third.

G has time to work his way into the conversation.

 

[CanadianSniper]

Voted for Giroux and Lindros. I never saw Barber or Howe play. I think Giroux should be a slam dunk though after all is said and done. I think he will be a Flyer for life.

 

[kelmitchell]

Lindros, howe, giroux, pretty easy for me

 

[Appleyard]

For me Giroux has passed Barber already. Far better individual career prime and peak.

Giroux:

Top 10 pts: 2, 3, 3, 10
Top 10 PPG: 2, 6, 7
Hart: 3, 4, 4

Top 5 adjusted PPG seasons:

1.34 (11-12)
1.27 (17-18)
1.17 (13-14)
1.10 (12-13)
1.01 (10-11)

Barber:

Top 10 pts: 4
Top 10 PPG: 5
Hart:

Top 5 adjusted PPG seasons:

1.19 (75-76)
0.84 (73-74)
0.82 (78-79)
0.81 (72-73)
0.80 (80-81)

Barber simply played in a higher scoring era... had one truly elite season.

 

[Freddy The Fog]

Parent, Clarke, Shero, Barber, MacLeish, Howe, (Honorable mention: Lindros)

That order.

Nuff said.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

For me Giroux has passed Barber already. Far better individual career prime and peak.

Giroux:

Top 10 pts: 2, 3, 3, 10
Top 10 PPG: 2, 6, 7
Hart: 3, 4, 4

Top 5 adjusted PPG seasons:

1.34 (11-12)
1.27 (17-18)
1.17 (13-14)
1.10 (12-13)
1.01 (10-11)

Barber:

Top 10 pts: 4
Top 10 PPG: 5
Hart:

Top 5 adjusted PPG seasons:

1.19 (75-76)
0.84 (73-74)
0.82 (78-79)
0.81 (72-73)
0.80 (80-81)

Barber simply played in a higher scoring era... had one truly elite season.

I think team success factors in when asking a sports Rushmore question.

Barber was integral in 4 trips to the Cup Final, with two Cup wins.

G's been to one and was a young buck when he made it. If he plays his whole career as a Flyer and doesn't make another Final, I probably do knock Barber or Lindros off my list for him.

Lindros only made one Final, as well, but was just so flat out dominant as a Flyer that it would be hard to knock him off... plus he's the reason why I cheer for the Flyers, so I am little biased there.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

On the flip side, barber had the 2 undisputed all time great flyers in Clarke and parent to help with that dominate era. G has had nothing close to that yet.

 

[forzanerazzurri]

Lindros and Giroux.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

I picked Lindros and Howe. I don't think there is much separation between four or five mentioned but rather than focus on one era, I opted to spread the representations. Otherwise, Barber would have been a pick. Giroux is another strong option and would be the third (or fifth if Clarke and Parent are included) candidate. Also, though they were vastly different players, if Tim Kerr is an option so should have Rick MacLeish.

 

[Sawdalite]

I picked Lindros and Howe. I don't think there is much separation between four or five mentioned but rather than focus on one era, I opted to spread the representations. Otherwise, Barber would have been a pick. Giroux is another strong option and would be the third (or fifth if Clarke and Parent are included) candidate. Also, though they were vastly different players, if Tim Kerr is an option so should have Rick MacLeish.

Yeah, as I said earlier I had considered Hawk... in the end he was eliminated... rightly or wrongly... due to his final Stats falling below most of the others.

With Kerr, I used the Lindros thinking of unfulfilled potential Stats due to injuries... Kerr's per Game Stats and number of Franchise Leading Power Play Goals... and Fan Appreciation... gained him the nod.

In retrospect, I suppose MacLeish deserved the same nod Kerr got... But in an Organization with over 50 Seasons of great Players, there are so many Players important to its History that for one reason or another deserved recognition... but in the end, I knew they would not stand a chance -- look at Propp, with his great Stats... and Kerr and LeClair -- with the early Rosters alone, besides Hawk, I had to pass over Jimmy Watson, Van Imp, Dornhoerffer (sp?), Leach... and then we have such Players as Poulin, Recchi, Tocchett Yada, Yada, Yada... I know I'm leaving out some great options.

As for the Poll as it is going... I'm really surprised with the lack of more support for Barber... and just about complete passing over of Propp -- who I personally feel is greatly underrated in his own territory -- I'm also surprised that Howe is trailing Giroux... who I expected to be back in the pack, not having his Final Stats in place; that might be partly due to him being our current hero... as well as his Stats being great and projected to be even greater when he is through.

I'm enjoying following the Poll... and seeing the thoughts of Flyers Fans from all Eras.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

^ All valid points but Rick MacLeish was a big-game player and his contributions to the victorious Cup teams should never be overlooked. Bill Barber was a defensive gem and his play in the 1980 playoffs, especially against Minnesota, was one to behold. Joe Watson may have the longest connection to the Flyers of any former player when you include managerial roles, even more so than Bobby Clarke. He was with the Flyers basically since day one except for that brief stint with Colorado.

This is an interesting study and if the total is limited to four to coincide with the actual Mt. Rushmore then it could be an internal struggle for those of us who recall even the pre-Cup days. It is difficult to measure eras but the bias is obviously towards the winningest teams.

 

[baudib1]

Howe and Lindros.

 

[Hexxxy]

1 Carter Hart
2 Gritty
3 Sami Kapenen

 

[Sawdalite]

^ All valid points but Rick MacLeish was a big-game player and his contributions to the victorious Cup teams should never be overlooked. Bill Barber was a defensive gem and his play in the 1980 playoffs, especially against Minnesota, was one to behold. Joe Watson may have the longest connection to the Flyers of any former player when you include managerial roles, even more so than Bobby Clarke. He was with the Flyers basically since day one except for that brief stint with Colorado.

This is an interesting study and if the total is limited to four to coincide with the actual Mt. Rushmore then it could be an internal struggle for those of us who recall even the pre-Cup days. It is difficult to measure eras but the bias is obviously towards the winningest teams.

All your points are well taken... I don't disagree with any of this.

There are some Organizations that don't have anything near these problem... I'm glad we are not one of them.

Maybe some day down the road... maybe the OffSeason... we can do this for the various Eras... or for each Decade... level the playing field and open a couple slots that Clarkie and Bernie own... Maybe even open it up to Off-Ice people, although I'd imagine Mr Snider would occupy one of the slots clear through, except for the '90s when temporarily 'retired'.

 

[Sawdalite]

Google Images

I wouldn't mind these^^^^ ... less Mrs. Ashbee and Bundy, of course.

 

[Embiid]

We should do one called Mount Crushmore with Dave Shultz and other enforcers and great hitters.

 

[Larry44]

Howe and Lindros. With all due respect Claude, he isn't near their status yet for me.

 

[Sawdalite]

FWIW... Brian Propp has one Vote (full disclosure: I did not vote for him here)... and doesn't get very much recognition at all, anywhere in Flyers History... I understand that he did play in the High Scoring Era in the NHL, along with Mark Howe.

Just a little bit of Stats to put his achievements in perspective, compare to all other Flyers Player... Propp's current Standing in Flyers History:

Games Played - 3rd
Goals - 2nd
Assists - 3rd
Points - 3rd
Goals Created - 3rd
+/- - 4th
Even Strength Goals - 2nd
Power Play Goals - 3rd
Short Handed Goals - 7th
Game Winng Goals - 2nd
Shots - 2nd
Hat Tricks - 5th
Goals per Game - 5th
Assists per Game - 8th
Points per Game - 3rd
Goals Created per Game - 3rd
Total Goals On-Ice For - 3rd
Power Play Goals On-Ice For - 3rd

Also noted that while 3rd in GP he is not in the Top Ten in PIM... and while 7th in Short Handed Goals, he is not in the Top Ten in Power Play Goals On-Ice Against.


Going up against the other Greats in this Poll for top four Greats... with only three Votes per Voter... one could assume that he would merely be falling a hair short of the likes of Lindros, Howe, Barber and the still playing Giroux... He may be great in all Stats, but tough to fit in anybody's limit of three Choices... I can honestly say that that is the case with me... and that causes such great Players to appear to not get their due props -- no pun intended... kinda/sorta -- I suppose I should have allowed more Votes or Person, which would have given the wanted Results, but also displayed support for Players like Propp who might or might not be 4th on everybody's list.

With all that said... I still do honesty feel that Propp has been short shifted in recognition as one of the Flyers all-time Great Players... among most Flyers Fans... and especially with those too young to have seen him play, and have not really read much about him due to the lack of recognition.

Again... FWIW

 

[lancer247]

Tough to go against the 3 HHOFers...Barber, Lindros, and Howe. Giroux is certainly makin his case. It’s a case I didn’t think was possible a few seasons ago.
It’s really tough not to put Kerr up there. One of my pet peeves is the fact that Kerr isn’t in the HHOF while Gilles and Neely are. Much like Lindros the refs looked the other way because he was such a bull on the ice. In spite of the punishment he was ridiculous in front of the net.
The string of 50 goal seasons was fun to watch.

 

[Larry44]

FWIW... Brian Propp has one Vote (full disclosure: I did not vote for him here)... and doesn't get very much recognition at all, anywhere in Flyers History... I understand that he did play in the High Scoring Era in the NHL, along with Mark Howe.

----

With all that said... I still do honesty feel that Propp has been short shifted in recognition as one of the Flyers all-time Great Players... among most Flyers Fans... and especially with those too young to have seen him play, and have not really read much about him due to the lack of recognition.

Again... FWIW

It's worth a lot. Propp was a GREAT hockey player. Skilled, smart, tough. Great hands, great speed. Just below the Rushmore-level greats, but great nonetheless. Underappreciated except by those of us lucky enough to see him.

 

[baudib1]

I tend to think that Propp was a better player than two HOF wingers we’ve had - Barber and Recchi. I know that’s semi-blasphemous.

Propp was a complete player and an unselfish one who played great in all situations and made every unit he was in elite. The Poulin-Propp-Howe-McCrimmom PK unit practically toyed with team’s power plays. Sprinkle in Tim Kerr and its a great PP unit too.

 

[Sawdalite]

I've decided to put my money my mouth is... I've changed one of my Votes.

I've kept Howe and Lindros because I honestly believe they are two true faces of the Organization during their History, along of course with Clarkie and Bernie... but I sadly took away my Vote for Barber and gave it to Propp... I toyed with voting for Barber over Lindros, based on longevity and Billy's being so all-around great for so very long... even with his bad back... but in the end I couldn't deny Lindros being, as I said before, a true face of the Organization.

Studying Propp's Stats and standing in so many Offensive Categories... and considering his Defensive play... and sprinkling in the fact that he suffered a stroke -- I believe it was -- and had to rehab to get his life back... and did so to the point where now has rejoined the Alumni and a actually plays hockey again... adding to that the fact that he gets too little recognition... convinced me to give him one of my Votes.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Reserve a spot for Carter Hart plz

 

[Sawdalite]

I love Giroux as a Hockey Player to death... but how is the greatest Defenceman in Flyers History not a lock for one of the Top Four Slots?... That just does not compute.

But it is what it is... for now anyway.