Flyers Off-Season Part I, Reg/Season Thread VII or Naked Gun 33 1/3: The Final Insult

[Captain Dave Poulin]

That might just upset poor old dave, i mean he made it clear he was butt frustrated when the fans boo amac at home games

I'd like to be alone in a room with Dave and tell him exactly what I think of Andy.
I'd tell you here, but there aren't enough asterisks in the world to cover it.

 

[kelmitchell]

I'd like to be alone in a room with Dave and tell him exactly what I think of Andy.
I'd tell you here, but there aren't enough asterisks in the world to cover it.

id also like to do the same, but he seems like he is to stupid to understand logic and stats his response will be "but but i love him, hes a top 3 dman, hes our pride and joy"

 

[Rebels57]

That might just upset poor old dave, i mean he made it clear he was butt frustrated when the fans boo amac at home games

Oh God, I forgot all about that. I wish you hadn't reminded us. What a buffoon.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Oh God, I forgot all about that. I wish you hadn't reminded us. What a buffoon.

Eh, what do you expect? I sure as hell wouldn't want a head coach who didn't go to bat for his player publicly.

 

[kelmitchell]

Eh, what do you expect? I sure as hell wouldn't want a head coach who didn't go to bat for his player publicly.

Theres defending him and then there is claiming hes a top 3 dman........wayyyy different

 

[Rebels57]

Eh, what do you expect? I sure as hell wouldn't want a head coach who didn't go to bat for his player publicly.

A coach, or player for that matter, should never criticize the fans for expressing their feelings. Ever. Not to mention the "top 3 defensemen" ********.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

A coach, or player for that matter, should never criticize the fans for expressing their feelings. Ever. Not to mention the "top 3 defensemen" ********.

I think it's fair for the head coach to say he doesn't like hearing his player get booed at home games. A head coach should be able to defend his player if his player is being attacked without being deemed a buffoon for doing so. I don't want a head coach who won't go to bat for his team.

 

[Curufinwe]

Theres defending him and then there is claiming hes a top 3 dman........wayyyy different

He said he was playing a top 3 or 4 role on the Flyers. Did you expect him to say MacDonald was a third pairing defenseman when he was playing him 20 minutes a game? Todd McLelllan wouldn't call Kris Russell a third pairing defenseman no matter how mad Oiler fans were about his Corsi numbers.

"He’s played like a legitimate top 3-4 role all year"

 

[Rebels57]

He said he was playing a top 3 or 4 role on the Flyers. Did you expect him to say MacDonald was a third pairing defenseman when he was playing him 20 minutes a game? Todd McLelllan wouldn't call Kris Russell a third pairing defenseman no matter how mad Oiler fans were about his Corsi numbers.

"He’s played like a legitimate top 3-4 role all year"

What he actually said according to witnesses..

“Hak got all red in the face, and went on several minutes defending A-Mac. Flat out said A-Mac is a top 3 or 4 defensemen in the NHL,” Broadstreethockey.com wrote. “Specifically said ‘you can throw Corsi out the window.’ Hak seemed to legitimately believe A-Mac is a top defensemen, deserves top minutes.”

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/02/08/dave-hakstol-andrew-macdonald/

 

[Curufinwe]

Playing a top 3-4 role and being a top 3 or 4 defenseman in the NHL is the same thing. It means the coach believes the player is good enough to play in the top 4 on his team, which is something we already knew be believed based on ice time. It doesn't mean that the coach thinks the player is one of the 3 or 4 best defensmen in the entire league behind only Burns and Doughty and Karlsson.

The idea that Hakstol is unique among NHL coaches in using a defensmen with low Corsi Rel in a top 4 role is hopelessly ignorant. Go look at Russell's ice time and Corsi numbers under the "buffoon" in Edmonton.

 

[Curufinwe]

It's genuinely hilarious that people are still pretending that Hakstol saying that MacDonald was being used a top 3 or 4 defenseman on his team, is a separate thing from the fact that MacDonald was used as a top 3 or 4 defenseman on the Flyers this season.

It would be like getting extra mad if he had said that VdV was worthy of being an everyday 4th liner and main penalty killer. We already knew he thought that based on his usage.

 

[Lindberg]

He said he was playing a top 3 or 4 role on the Flyers. Did you expect him to say MacDonald was a third pairing defenseman when he was playing him 20 minutes a game? Todd McLelllan wouldn't call Kris Russell a third pairing defenseman no matter how mad Oiler fans were about his Corsi numbers.

"He’s played like a legitimate top 3-4 role all year"

Just so you know there is many ways to defend AMac without saying he deserves a top 3-4 role / top minutes. For example "I like what AMac brings to the table and think he's an underrated player who isn't well received by the fans" or blah blah blah.

Back to the point AMac sucks and Hakstol is clearly delusional, there isn't much else to it.

 

[Curufinwe]

Just so you know there is many ways to defend AMac without saying he deserves a top 3-4 role / top minutes.

What would be the point of Hakstol pretending MacDonald wasn't playing 20 minutes a game when anyone could look at the stats on NHL.com?

 

[Lindberg]

What would be the point of Hakstol pretending MacDonald wasn't playing 20 minutes a game when anyone could look at the stats on NHL.com?

To avoid criticizing other players. Hakstol isn't going to say well AMac isn't really good enough for a top 3/4 role but I don't trust Ghost, MDZ has been really up and down, and Streit looks slow and old.

There's a difference between legitimately believing something and going on a rant about it versus just towing the company line.

 

[Curufinwe]

Any coach who would play a defenseman in the top 4 despite a Corsi Rel below -4% is clearly delusional. Let's make a quick list of them.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...ense&minutes=750&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

De Boer
Trotz
Carlyle
McLellan
Hynes
Sutter
Vigneault
Capuano/Weight
Sullivan
Bylsma
Tortorella
Hakstol
Boucher
Laviolette
Gulutzan

So half the league.

 

[Tripod]

Hak used AMac as a #2 dman....2nd most TOI per game....and most at SH( though Provy 1 sec. less)

So he didn't just used him in a top 4. He used him with our best Dman against top lines AND gave him top SH minutes.

Defending his usage this year is idiotic.

 

[deadhead]

He had alternatives?

Only reason Gudas had less usage was he was banged up at times.
And after that, well, MDZ, Streit, Manning, Schultz, nuff said.
Ghost was limited to offensive situations because of Ghost, it wasn't until the last couple months he actually tried on defense.

MacDonald is a bottom pairing defenseman who would be instantly claimed on waivers if he was making $2M a year. He's not awful, he's just not good. But neither were the alternatives.

 

[BillDineen]

AMac was better this year, but the bar was set low. People disliking AMac has little to do with his corsi, it is his defending and the way he gives up the blueline like an ECHLer.

 

[Lindberg]

He had alternatives?

Only reason Gudas had less usage was he was banged up at times.
And after that, well, MDZ, Streit, Manning, Schultz, nuff said.
Ghost was limited to offensive situations because of Ghost, it wasn't until the last couple months he actually tried on defense.

MacDonald is a bottom pairing defenseman who would be instantly claimed on waivers if he was making $2M a year. He's not awful, he's just not good. But neither were the alternatives.

Yeah because missing the playoffs was an exceedingly good idea! There isn't any justifiable reason to defend Hakstol playing AMac as much as he did. Even if the intention was to lose games rather than win he still did a **** poor job in that department.

 

[Curufinwe]

AMac was better this year, but the bar was set low. People disliking AMac has little to do with his corsi, it is his defending and the way he gives up the blueline like an ECHLer.

I've been reading articles and comments for almost five years now that say his Corsi is low because of giving up the blueline, so they are entirely intertwined ideas.

 

[Lindberg]

AMac was better this year, but the bar was set low. People disliking AMac has little to do with his corsi, it is his defending and the way he gives up the blueline like an ECHLer.

Yep. His poor advanced stats are just a reflection of what you can see with the eye ball test.

 

[Tripod]

He had alternatives?

Only reason Gudas had less usage was he was banged up at times.
And after that, well, MDZ, Streit, Manning, Schultz, nuff said.
Ghost was limited to offensive situations because of Ghost, it wasn't until the last couple months he actually tried on defense.

MacDonald is a bottom pairing defenseman who would be instantly claimed on waivers if he was making $2M a year. He's not awful, he's just not good. But neither were the alternatives.

Yes he did have alternatives.

Provy Gudas would have been a much better pairing to go up against top lines.

And stop this ******** that Ghost did not try on defense. It makes you look stupid.

 

[Curufinwe]

Yeah because missing the playoffs was an exceedingly good idea!

So playing MacDonald less, and playing MDZ and Schultz more would have got the Flyers into the playoffs?

It's not like Hakstol had the option of playing any of the D prospects. Hextall kept them in the AHL till the team was eliminated from the playoffs.

 

[Curufinwe]

Yes he did have alternatives.

Provy Gudas would have been a much better pairing to go up against top lines.

So then the 2nd pairing is MDZ as the anchor without Gudas to carry him? That might be have been OK if MDZ didn't forget how to play defense for most of the season.

 

[TCTC]

Hak used AMac as a #2 dman....2nd most TOI per game....and most at SH( though Provy 1 sec. less)

So he didn't just used him in a top 4. He used him with our best Dman against top lines AND gave him top SH minutes.

Defending his usage this year is idiotic.

That spot was meant for Del Zotto. But he was so bad he couldn't even stay in the lineup.
Streit wasn't a top pairing d-man anymore, Gudas was needed on the 2nd pairing, Ghost had a bad start,...
That leaves MacDonald, Schultz and Manning. Pretty easy decision who you want as #2 out of these 3.