Flyers name Alain Vigneault head coach

[Hivemind]

$25 million guaranteed contract for a coach that hasn't won anything. It makes no sense. AV must be bouncing off the walls right now, and Tanner Glass is definitely licking his chops

Your franchise gave a five year contract to someone who hadn't coached professional hockey before. I wouldn't celebrate too much about another franchise handing a 5 year contract to AV, regardless of it overpays him compared to some of his peers (Trotz & Julien).

And to be clear, I say this as a fan of a team that let Barry Trotz walk this past summer.

 

[GordonGecko]

Your franchise gave a five year contract to someone who hadn't coached professional hockey before. I wouldn't celebrate too much about another franchise handing a 5 year contract to AV, regardless of it overpays him compared to some of his peers (Trotz & Julien).

Rangers went the other way, instead of a re-tread they took a chance on a college coach looking for a Sean McVeigh and pretty much everyone was happy about it. Makes sense for a rebuild to get a coach who is good at developing young players and we've been happy so far with his performance. Plus at $12 over five if he sucks and gets dumped it's not a big hit to the budget for the next coach (which is already pretty much unlimited at MSG).

Almost nobody wanted another guy off the NHL hamster wheel

 

[Hivemind]

Rangers went the other way, instead of a re-tread they took a chance on a college coach looking for a Sean McVeigh and pretty much everyone was happy about it. Makes sense for a rebuild to get a coach who is good at developing players and we've been happy so far with his performance. Plus at $12 over five if he sucks and gets cut it's not a big hit to the budget for the next coach (which is already pretty much unlimited at MSG).

Almost nobody wanted another guy off the NHL hamster wheel

And the Flyers non-Cap money is absolutely as unlimited as the Rangers. My point is that you're throwing stones in a glass house, when it comes to making big commitments to guys who haven't earned them yet (and it's debatable that a coach who's been to two Stanley Cup finals this decade hasn't earned his contract). I get being salty towards former coaches (I would certainly gloat if anyone hired Adam Oates, and gloated when the Bruins hired Bruce Cassidy although it's since been proven that he's matured significantly as a coach since his tenure in Washington), but step back and take a realistic look at this situation rather than one through Rangers-tinted glasses.

 

[GordonGecko]

My point is that you're throwing stones in a glass house, when it comes to making big commitments to guys who haven't earned them yet

How is $12M/5 a big commitment? $2.4M AAV is a cheap coach, I have no idea what glass house you're talking about

 

[biturbo19]

I really like this hire for the Flyers. There will be the inevitable "adjustment period" when AV comes around installs his system and it takes the players a while to really get it. But once it's set in, he's always got a lot out of what's there, and i like the fit with a lot of their personnel in his system. As long as he can get some decent goaltending, which his system tends to lean on pretty heavily, i think this gets the Flyers back to the playoffs.

 

[Hivemind]

How is $12M/5 a big commitment? $2.4M AAV is a cheap coach, I have no idea what glass house you're talking about

Mike Babcock is the only active coach in the NHL with a contract longer than 5 years (and even his deal, which completely shattered the NHL coaching salary paradigm, only has 5 years remaining).
At $2.4M, Quinn's contract is also more than AV's previous contract with the Rangers ($2M), and Quinn has (without a doubt) demonstrated less at the NHL level than AV had at the time his contract was signed.
At $2.4M, Quinn's contract puts him only $225K per year behind Bruce Boudreau (second among active coaches in Pts% and has coached his team to a 100+ pt season/pace in 10 out of 12 years in the NHL).
At $2.4M, Quinn's contract puts him $400K ahead of Peter Laviolette's salary for this season. Laviolette just signed a new deal that's likely more (but only has two more years of term).
At $2,4, Quinn's contract puts him $150K ahead of Jon Cooper's salary for this season. Cooper just signed a new "multi-year" deal that's likely more.

You guys went out and spent big to get your preferred coaching candidate, regarding of whether or not he had earned that contract. The Rangers paid Quinn more than some of the best coaches in the NHL, and committing 5 years to a coach is something that's typically reserved for top level coaches in the NHL, not NCAA rookies. That's the glass house.

 

[GordonGecko]

At $2.4M, Quinn's contract is also more than AV's previous contract with the Rangers ($2M)

AV's most recent NYR contract was $8.25/2 ($4.125 AAV)

 

[Hivemind]

AV's most recent NYR contract was $8.25/2 ($4.125 AAV)

Alain Vigneault - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[GordonGecko]

Alain Vigneault - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

I'll fill in the blanks for you
2017-18 $4.00 M (restructured)
2018-19 $4.00 M
2019-20 $4.25 M

 

[Hivemind]

I'll fill in the blanks for you
2017-18 $4.00 M (restructured)
2018-19 $4.00 M
2019-20 $4.25 M

First off, source?

Secondly, that doesn't really refute the general point I was making regarding the Rangers' overpaying to get "their guy" in Quinn, comparing his salary to multiple others around the league. Although it would dispute that $5M per is an overpayment for AV, considering you're claiming his prior salary was already $4.25M.

 

[GordonGecko]

First off, source?

Secondly, that doesn't really refute the general point I was making regarding the Rangers' overpaying to get "their guy" in Quinn, comparing his salary to multiple others around the league. Although it would dispute that $5M per is an overpayment for AV, considering you're claiming his prior salary was already $4.25M.

Dude, AV completely failed - for the second franchise in a row

He's going to fail again, his salary should be going down, instead it's going way UP

Makes no sense but whatever I'm done talking about this guy. Nothing but really bad memories

 

[LI Fly Guy]

I like AV as a coach quite a bit, but the fact he got more money and the same term as Barry Trotz (while Trotz was the reigning Cup champ) is absurd. I know Philadelphia is a franchise that isn't shy about spending Comcast's money, but it's still ridiculous.

Well up until about 12 months ago, Trotz had only won 5 series in 18 years (0-2 vs AV) and was a guy “who couldn’t win” and ironically enough in 2015 his Caps were up 3-1 on the Rags but the rags for a second straight year came back from such a deficit and won that series. But the year before it was because MSL mom died. Not sure what supernatural thing caused his team to do it again in 2015, but I’m certain the coach who can not make adjustments in the playoffs had nothing to do with it, so I’ll just wait for someone to reply to this and let us all know.

Who knew all these Ranger fans were so miserable with a cup appearance, followed by a presidents trophy and a game 7 in ECF the next year? As they are throwing roses at the feet at Quinn who with a similar roster had 2 less wins this season.

And for the record, on 1/18/18 the Rags were 24-18-5. But tell me more about how miserable that entire season was too.

A lot of hockey fans would rather lose with the optimal lineups and “KIDS” playing rather than winning games with a stubborn coach. I like winning games and playoff series personally.

Imagine slandering a guy who took your decent (not bad, not great) roster and had the record of 226-147-37? Not to mention the 6 playoff series wins.

 

[Ori]

Poor Gritty. He's getting the least gritty coach of all-time.

He will turtle the Flyers to the final especially if they sign Zucc who love to play the puck, lol.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Who knew all these Ranger fans were so miserable with a cup appearance, followed by a presidents trophy and a game 7 in ECF the next year? As they are throwing roses at the feet at Quinn who with a similar roster had 2 less wins this season.

The mental gymnastics in this thread are great. It's also funny because the Rangers' only Cup in the last thousand years came under Mike Keenan, who had been pegged as a guy who "just couldn't get the job done" after taking two different teams (Flyers included) to three total Finals in ten years without a victory.

So, may history reverse itself. Or repeat itself. Either way.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Why does one care about how much Philly pays someone who doesn't count against the salary cap?

Talk about nitpicking, $5M is chump change to organization's like the Flyers...if he counted against the cap you could argue it was a bad move; but the money given has ZERO play in the overall situation.

I could care less if Flyers gave him $100M/year...not my money nor does it affect the roster.

 

[Hivemind]

Why does one care about how much Philly pays someone who doesn't count against the salary cap?

Because it plays into the trend of rapidly ballooning coaching salaries ever since Babcock's contract with Toronto. Makes it harder for mid-tier markets to land top coaches and leads to situations where guys like Barry Trotz are allowed to walk after winning a Cup.

 

[Tank To Win]

Only here, will non Flyers fans come to criticize the term on a Flyers coaching deal and make a stink about it. I honestly believe the Flyers could have signed Jesus Christ to be the head coach and people here would be throwing in their 2 cents about how bad a deal it was.

 

[Voight]

Dude, AV completely failed - for the second franchise in a row

He's going to fail again, his salary should be going down, instead it's going way UP

Makes no sense but whatever I'm done talking about this guy. Nothing but really bad memories

Completely fail is a harsh and unnecessary way to put it.

Obviously if you don't win the cup you "failed" but both teams had their best run of success in a long time and made the finals, as well as won the Prez Trophy. During AVs time in VAN for example The Twins became top players, Luongo had some of his best years, Kesler became a top two-way centre (and won. a Selke), Edler?Hamhuis had some solid years. Sure his team collapsed in the finals but they also went 7 games and the collapse c ant entirely be put on him.

Likewise in NY he took a team to the finals (in his first season) that had no business being there. A team that lacked any star power outside of their goalie and one who's highest scoring player in the playoffs was a d-man (who btw finished 7th in playoff scoring, MSL was the only other NY player ion the top 10). He did better than any coach since Keenan yet the salt is still there.

The mental gymnastics in this thread are great. It's also funny because the Rangers' only Cup in the last thousand years came under Mike Keenan, who had been pegged as a guy who "just couldn't get the job done" after taking two different teams (Flyers included) to three total Finals in ten years without a victory.

So, may history reverse itself. Or repeat itself. Either way.

I have never seen a fanbase so ungrateful.

 

[Voight]

Because it plays into the trend of rapidly ballooning coaching salaries ever since Babcock's contract with Toronto. Makes it harder for mid-tier markets to land top coaches and leads to situations where guys like Barry Trotz are allowed to walk after winning a Cup.

That was Babcocks goal. To help the rest of his fellow coaches get higher salaries and it seems to have worked.

 

[Machinehead]

He will turtle the Flyers to the final especially if they sign Zucc who love to play the puck, lol.

Nah, we need Zucc to re-sign in Dallas so we can get that 1st.

The Flyers might consider exploring Derick Brassard.

 

[Machinehead]

I have never seen a fanbase so ungrateful.

You just don't understand how grating he is. He never coached your team.

 

[Voight]

You just don't understand how grating he is. He never coached your team.

I'd be happy if my team made the finals with him as coach.

 

[Rich Nixon]

I have never seen a fanbase so ungrateful.

I've seen plenty of those, as has any Flyers fan who remembers the Lindros era. But the refusal to see what most others see is funny...no one was looking at that Rangers roster before or during the season and going "Wow, this is a Cup favorite." It played significantly above its head for much of AV's tenure there. The idea that the Kings were a vastly superior hockey team is just beyond some folks. They were. You can go look back at every expert pick, analysis, and betting line from June 2014. But nah, the coach blew it.

I mean, it happens with a lot of fans of a lot of teams, it's not a Rangers fan thing. It's just funny.

 

[Machinehead]

I'd be happy if my team made the finals with him as coach.

You've also never lost a finals.

 

[Allan92]

Regardless of how things ended in NY, his tenure there was mostly positive.

I expect the flyers to compete for the division title next season