Flyers name Alain Vigneault head coach

[StoneHands]

A lot of us Ranger fans said the same thing to Vancouver fans when we hired AV, lol. AV will improve your team, I don't doubt that. But just know that he has an expiration date, sooner rather than later.

If that expiration date in Vancouver he had 6 really good seasons including a presidents trophy and a trip to the SCF. In NY he had 4 really good seasons including a presidents trophy and a trip to the SCF. The average shelf life for a coach is in the 3-5 year range so if he gives us 4-5 good years and a trip to the Final I will be happy and take my chances over Hakstol or Gordon who were taking the team nowhere.

He coaches soft, his teams turn soft over time. Going from an in your face coach like Torts to AV, it was pretty easy to see. AV ripped Kreider to media for stepping up to Stamkos when he cheapshotted McD. JT and Skjei both regressed with him at the helm. The d-zone is an absolute disaster, a common theme with all of AV’s teams. He played Girardi and Staal in the final minute of games, where we would often end up scored on (2 of the worst dmen statistically in the league). And he doesn’t believe in analytics whatsoever. So, if thats who you want in charge so be it. Wouldnt trust him with a promising group of youngsters in Philly tho

How exactly did JT Miller regress under AV?
JT Miller
2014: 6 points in 30 games (.20 PPG)
2015: 23 points in 58 games (.40 PPG)
2016: 43 points (.52 PPG)
2017: 56 points (.68 PPG)
2018: 40 points in 63 games (.63 PPG)
This season in Tampa
2019:47 points in 75 games .63 PPG)

Skjei only played 2 seasons for AV and it's really not surprising to see a player in his second season struggle when he goes from being a 6th defenseman on a good team to a top 4 defenseman on a bad team.

 

[bigdog16]

If that expiration date in Vancouver he had 6 really good seasons including a presidents trophy and a trip to the SCF. In NY he had 4 really good seasons including a presidents trophy and a trip to the SCF. The average shelf life for a coach is in the 3-5 year range so if he gives us 4-5 good years and a trip to the Final I will be happy and take my chances over Hakstol or Gordon who were taking the team nowhere.


How exactly did JT Miller regress under AV?
JT Miller
2014: 6 points in 30 games (.20 PPG)
2015: 23 points in 58 games (.40 PPG)
2016: 43 points (.52 PPG)
2017: 56 points (.68 PPG)
2018: 40 points in 63 games (.63 PPG)
This season in Tampa
2019:47 points in 75 games .63 PPG)

Skjei only played 2 seasons for AV and it's really not surprising to see a player in his second season struggle when he goes from being a 6th defenseman on a good team to a top 4 defenseman on a bad team.

Theres literally a regression from 17 to 18. He was a different, uninterested, and less effective player when he got traded. Skjei wasnt a 6th dman. 6th dmen dont put up 39 points in 80 games

 

[Adam Warlock]

I think Flyers fans understand that AV is not perfect and will have moments where he greatly frustrates us.

I think what Ranger fans need to understand is just how bad Dave Hakstol was. The man literally ruined the Flyers franchise. Even if AV is as bad as you all are saying, hes still light years better than what we are used to.

 

[Garbage Goal]

I think Flyers fans understand that AV is not perfect and will have moments where he greatly frustrates us.

I think what Ranger fans need to understand is just how bad Dave Hakstol was. The man literally ruined the Flyers franchise. Even if AV is as bad as you all are saying, hes still light years better than what we are used to.

Yeah, I don’t think non Flyers fans understand that the only legitimate NHL coach we’ve had in almost FIFTEEN YEARS is a few of Laviolette.

Before any Preds fans or anti-Lavi people jump in, I didn’t say amazing coach or even bad coach. I just mean a normal, of the retread ilk, has his flaws NHL caliber coach. In at least 14 years we’ve had one for a few of them. Rest were John Stevens, who we saw fail in LA, Hakstol and Gordon, and Berube who, regardless of how he looks in a full season next year, was awful and gifted the job.

Just the standard won’t make a huge difference either way NHL retread is miles ahead of what we’re used to. You literally cannot do worse than Hakstol.

 

[StoneHands]

Theres literally a regression from 17 to 18. He was a different, uninterested, and less effective player when he got traded. Skjei wasnt a 6th dman. 6th dmen dont put up 39 points in 80 games

Regression from '17 to '18? Seriously? He went from a 56 point pace to 52 point pace and that's a regression? If your biggest complaint of a coach is that a player scored at a pace that was 4 points lower than his career high then I think I'll be ok with AV.

Since when do points (Especially for defenseman) determine what line you play on or what number defenseman you are? In '17 Skjei was 6th among defenseman in overall TOI and 6th in ES TOI. That's the definition of a 3rd pairing, #6 defenseman. In '18 he was 2nd in overall TOI and 2nd in ES TOI. When you go from playing 3rd pairing minutes against other teams 3rd and 4th lines to playing top pairing minutes against other teams top lines, it's not surprising to see a dip in production while he adjusts to a more difficult role. He didn't do any better this season under a new coach so his best season, by far, was under AV.

 

[bigdog16]

Regression from '17 to '18? Seriously? He went from a 56 point pace to 52 point pace and that's a regression? If your biggest complaint of a coach is that a player scored at a pace that was 4 points lower than his career high then I think I'll be ok with AV.

Since when do points (Especially for defenseman) determine what line you play on or what number defenseman you are? In '17 Skjei was 6th among defenseman in overall TOI and 6th in ES TOI. That's the definition of a 3rd pairing, #6 defenseman. In '18 he was 2nd in overall TOI and 2nd in ES TOI. When you go from playing 3rd pairing minutes against other teams 3rd and 4th lines to playing top pairing minutes against other teams top lines, it's not surprising to see a dip in production while he adjusts to a more difficult role. He didn't do any better this season under a new coach so his best season, by far, was under AV.

Put a list together of 6th dmen who went .5 ppg

 

[StoneHands]

Put a list together of 6th dmen who went .5 ppg

I can't believe someone is actually trying to argue that points determine what line or number defenseman a player is.

Tell me where I'm wrong about the pairings from 2017. It's really not difficult to look up defensive pairings and most common linemates. This isn't a debate, Skjei was played less than 5 other defenseman which makes him a #6 that season. He was sheltered in 2017 and not in 2018 which would explain his drop in production which continues again this season under a new coach. Why is this hard for you to admit?

Girardi - McDonagh
Holden - Staal
Klein - Skjei

Just look at the chart below. Skjei and Klein played BY FAR the easiest competition and had the easiest zone starts in 2017. Fast forward to 2018 and he's a top 4 defenseman playing tougher competition. This isn't a debate. It's a fact.
2017:
Player usage charts v4

2018:
Player usage charts v4