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Post-Game Talk: FLYERS at Panthers |Sat., Nov. 1, 2014

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Striiker

Striiker

Earthquake Survivor
Jun 2, 2013
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blinds said:
I agree with you man. He should be doing both. He was trying to do both, I've gone back and watched him. He did spend a little too much time standing still with the shot cocked, but like I said, he's not going to be perfect in his first game back playing an unfamiliar role. He's still doing a good job of drawing defenders even by just standing there with his stick cocked.

It's a problem, but a very small problem and it's not the entire reason 6 powerplays didn't score. I understand it's a meticulous powerplay, but he's still getting the basic job done enough to open up passing options around the outside.

It's still ridiculous to blame 6 missed powerplays and an entire game on Vinny not having the slot role down perfectly in his first game back and his 4th game playing that position.

He could've done better, but he wasn't terrible. My point is just that the blame on him is way out of proportion for what he actually did wrong.
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Nobody said he was the entire reason for 6 failed powerplays and losing the game...

People are pointing out issues that can and should be fixed. He certainly wasn't helping much but nobody is blaming it all on him. But the fact that it wasn't 100% his fault doesn't mean the PP can't or shouldn't be improved by removing him from it. He belongs on the right side on the 2nd PP, that's where he'd be best utilized.
 
Fire Tortorella

Fire Tortorella

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Qyburn said:
spoiler: I use the term 'they' because it doesn't constitute a bannable offense/personal attack. I've gone out of my way over the years to cultivate this manner of speaking. It lets me say what I want to say.
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So instead you just resort to PMs. Gotcha.
 
Random Forest

Random Forest

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blinds said:
I agree with you man. He should be doing both. He was trying to do both, I've gone back and watched him. He did spend a little too much time standing still with the shot cocked, but like I said, he's not going to be perfect in his first game back playing an unfamiliar role. He's still doing a good job of drawing defenders even by just standing there with his stick cocked.

It's a problem, but a very small problem and it's not the entire reason 6 powerplays didn't score. I understand it's a meticulous powerplay, but he's still getting the basic job done enough to open up passing options around the outside. That should be enough to get something going, god knows Schenn never did much with the puck from the slot. The powerplay still did well moving the puck and opening up shooting lanes, the problem was they just never put any decent shots on net, and the half-way decent ones Luongo had no problem dealing with. Way too many chest snipes and missing the net on shots. That's got more to do with the powerplay not scoring than Vinny not moving around.

It's still ridiculous to blame 6 missed powerplays and an entire game on Vinny not having the slot role down perfectly in his first game back and his 4th game playing that position.

He could've done better, but he wasn't terrible. My point is just that the blame on him is way out of proportion for what he actually did wrong. Everyone on that powerplay was at fault at different points.
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This is good, we're certainly moving closer together. We're on the same page now because I've said numerous times, I don't blame the PP's failure solely on Lecavalier. Giroux made mistakes trying to force passes, and Simmonds wasn't making himself an option in front of the net like he usually does.


That being said, Giroux, Simmonds, Streit, and Voracek have all proven to be VERY effective in their respective roles. Lecavalier, while not solely to blame for the PP's troubles last game, hasn't ever proven to be effective in the role he was put in. It's reasonable to suggest that his problem is more fundamental (ie, his skill set isn't effective in that role) given what we saw against Florida.

EDIT: To be more clear, this isn't about assigning blame for the struggles against Florida. It's about ensuring we are putting forth the best possible PP1 unit moving forward. What I saw from Lecavalier on Saturday (and in the first three games of the year) makes me feel as though he doesn't have the skill set to play that particular role.
 
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BringBackHakstol

BringBackHakstol

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blinds said:
Are you for real? Truly lost in terms of hockey knowledge? That's a pretty big conclusion, the over exaggeration around here is absurd. "IF YOU DONT AGREE WITH ME YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING!" You know Giroux does this multiple times a game, right? It's not that unusual. Hartnell never did it, but he never really lined up a one-timer like that anyway. He was better at getting the quick snap shots off and trying to fool the goalie.

x2nBUvd.png


Look at this picture. Vinny is doing what he's supposed to do. By cocking back for a shot, he forces two guys to cover him with their sticks instead of converge on Giroux, leaving passing lanes open to both Simmonds and Streit.

Now, he's probably playing way too close to Giroux, letting the defenders cover more ground by virtue of being closer to him, but he's still drawing two defenders towards him which is pretty valuable considering that's half of their skaters. If Giroux decides to go back to Streit, between him and Voracek they have more than half of the zone wide open to make plays with.

I don't understand what you want from Vinny. Is he supposed to get open for a shot, or draw defenders away to open other options? It seems to change each time to make whatever Vinny is doing wrong. I agree he could be moving around a little more to try to draw them away from Giroux, but as it is the basic idea is sound. He's drawing their attention away from Giroux's other options.

What else should he be doing here? Skating further into the slot leaves at least one of those two guys to pressure Giroux since they no longer have to cover Vinny's shot. He can't screen the goalie because Giroux doesn't have a shooting lane. It seems to me Vinny can't do right no matter what he does. What should he do instead of act like he's ready to take a shot to draw defenders towards him? Please tell me, because it looks to me like he's doing a good job of opening up other passing lanes for Giroux by drawing those two sticks to him. If he wasn't cocked for a shot, Upshall could be covering the pass back to Streit which would really cut Giroux off.

I mean, if the biggest criticism is he's not moving around enough, give him a little time to get his game feet back underneath him. It's his first game back filling a role he's not exactly used to. He's not going to be perfect off the bat. He still has the basic role down where he's drawing defenders attention away from Giroux and his other passing options. It's so ridiculous to me that people can take such small issues and somehow transform it into losing the game is now Vinny's fault. He barely even touched the puck on the powerplay, but he's the reason we lost the game. :shakehead
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Dude he needs to move his feet. You don't play hockey by standing there like a tree.
 
Beef Invictus

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Qyburn said:
I'll reiterate then.

There are a lot of people here who are GORGING on the thought that they might have some say in some way or another on this team's destiny.

Specifically getting a coach fired.

They don't care about the team itself. They're only concerned with their own online personas.
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What?
 

bauerhockey02

Registered User
Mar 15, 2009
318
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Qyburn said:
You've covered yourself well.

I watched you do it and I resented every minute of it. I guess I knew where it would lead.
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So you are going around insulting everyone who has a problem with Berube's decisions? Because I don't like his choices I don't care about the team at all and have a psychological issue that leads to me thinking I have any say in how the team operates by posting on an internet forum? No I just try to take an objective approach when thinking about or discussing the team. I do take issue though when some try to say others don't care about the team or are fair weather fans.

A mod closed a topic on here in recent years for someone seriously saying that people complaining about the poor play weren't real fans. I may butt heads with some, SgtJoseph was one recently, but I wouldn't question his actual interest in the team. You aren't going to agree with everyone in a place and sometimes jokes are made about certain players or the coach or GM or whatever, but that still doesn't mean there isn't an interest or a person doesn't care for a team. Some are overly pessimistic, some like me may try to be overly objective, and some are overly optimistic.

To say that those who criticize the coach are just "concerned with their online personas" and "don't care about the team itself" is literally wrong and an insult to those who try to discuss the team.

If we didn't care and weren't interested then we wouldn't be here.
 
blinds

blinds

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Jan 5, 2012
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hockeyfreak7 said:
This is good, we're certainly moving closer together. We're on the same page now because I've said numerous times, I don't blame the PP's failure solely on Lecavalier. Giroux made mistakes trying to force passes, and Simmonds wasn't making himself an option in front of the net like he usually does.


That being said, Giroux, Simmonds, Streit, and Voracek have all proven to be VERY effective in their respective roles. Lecavalier, while not solely to blame for the PP's troubles last game, hasn't ever proven to be effective in the role he was put in. It's reasonable to suggest that his problem is more fundamental (ie, his skill set isn't effective in that role) given what we saw against Florida.

EDIT: To be more clear, this isn't about assigning blame for the struggles against Florida. It's about ensuring we are putting forth the best possible PP1 unit moving forward. What I saw from Lecavalier on Saturday (and in the first three games of the year) makes me feel as though he doesn't have the skill set to play that particular role.
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I think we're pretty much on the same page. I just get frustrated seeing people blame Vinny for literally everything that goes wrong. People say things like, we lost all 4 games Vinny has played and act like he's the difference between winning and losing. It's just ridiculous how much disproportional hate he gets on these boards. I agree he doesn't really fit the slot role that well, I think most people were surprised to see him there to start the season. I think he'd make more sense in Voracek's spot if we still had Kimmo, but since we have Streit now to bomb shots from the point, we don't really need a second shooter from the point.

Honestly, Voracek's always seemed like kind of a luxury to have on the top PP, a little unnecessary when we had great passers in Giroux and Kimmo. A lot of the time he tries to force an extra pass that isn't there. Sometimes it seems like a shooter would fit better in that spot with how little he sees the puck anyway. But other times you see him make great second passes that you don't even realize are there. There would be pros/cons to either situation. It would be interesting to see if the second PP got any better if Voracek was bumped down though.

Honestly, I'd rather have Schenn in the slot. I've thought that since before the season started. But if you go look at the gdt, people are just piling on Vinny for all the powerplays not working when it's clearly not all his fault. Defending a whipping boy is kind of a pointless endeavor around here sometimes.
 
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