Post-Game Talk: Flyers 4, Penguins 2 - And The Beat Goes On

[AlphaMikeFoxtrots]

just keeping an eye on the notifications on my phone for this game was enough to make me wish for another couple weeks' worth of stitched together abdomen encouraging me to turn my attention elsewhere for the time being

 

[Turin]

The Pens have looked like this for the majority of this season. They looked disorganized for a lot of last season, too. Calling this a "slump" seems to be using the wrong word to describe something that's lasted this many games.

Notice how it’s the bad players who are played bad, bedsides tonight?

 

[TKalltheTime]

JR said he wanted to get back to having four scoring lines, upgrading the skill on his bottom lines...

We’ll yeah that’s why we signed DEREK GRANT baby!!!!11!!!

 

[zero8771]

The Pens have looked like this for the majority of this season. They looked disorganized for a lot of last season, too. Calling this a "slump" seems to be using the wrong word to describe something that's lasted this many games.

Malkins slumping (or hurt), rust is slumping, Kessel is slumping (or hungry), Murray is slumping(and hurt, and maybe not what we hoped he was). Those are our big dogs. When they suck it's gonna make it very hard to win.
Add in brassard unable to excel outside of a trap system and you have a situation making it very hard to win.

I know in the past firing the coach has been our magic pill. But this time I just don't buy it and I think if we hadnt witnessed fired coaches leading to cups 3x then there wouldn't be clamoring for a new coach constantly.

Sully has to be better, but imo he's the best Pittsburgh coach of any team since I've started watching sports. We watched his system (and JRs roster) revolutionize hockey and make constant adjjstments in the playoffs leading to wins. I don't want to lose that as an attempt at an easy fix for a struggling team. The risk out weighs the upside

 

[Hockey Freak 7]

Also Whether people like Coach Babcock or not. ( I love him)

He doesn’t have b2b rings.
But he isn’t too bit of cliches and very direct to strength his team weakness game to game
.

Recent Leafs games going Jackets ( they lost ) and Sharks ( they won) Somewhat Paraphrasing Post Interview: He compliments his team strengths and gave a fair honest assessment on their weaknesses on team. He does it a lot. He said. I believe we can Skate faster and make tweak during practice to be stronger against next opponents .
Players respond well and better results reflecting his assessment.

New Dallas Stars ‘Head Coach

He gave a honest assessment why Dallas lost against the Penguins. Nov 21. He took blame and thought to prepare better for next game. He thought maybe players took his quote to be ready against the Penguins wrong. About face offs other stuff.
I believe Dallas responded better win or so.

So I don’t get that vibe from mike Sullivan. It’s the same old stuff. Old philosophy and tactics.

He only tweak some of his system breakout because he was getting more grilled a lot about it and to many losses etc..

Penguins are not slow.


It his
•flawed system,
•systemic problems,
•line combos,
wanting defenseman to brutal keep on aggressively pinching/ ill advised unaware cross ice passes
• Defensemen to cheating to offense without defending first and protecting all their zones.
•not connecting to fowards
•some weak forwards turn over puck / to cute with puck
• Defensemen hold on puck to long/ heavy forecheck they cannot handle leaves to Defensemen turnovers with shitty forced passes to opponents
•Defensemen weak zone clear attempts.
•not protecting the puck/ get to hash marks/ cycle down low and take what opponents give them on the ice.
•impatience
• no heavy supporting speed intangible cast that can be good defensively and chip in well offensively ( bottom 6 passengers)
A lot on passengers on this team with long bad leash.
•Predictable things on the ice from Penguins and teams take advantage of it / Penguins give it up to easily etc..

Also Credible sources are desperately over Derick Brassard. They are urgency to trade him.
Brassard has been with every center and wingers on this team. He has not brought nothing to table. Has not stand out on his own. He might still be very good. But it isn’t for this team . He doesn’t fit. Never did.
He doesn’t want to play 3C for this team, the right way. He was only eager one time show his abilities with Jake&Sid.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Malkins slumping (or hurt), rust is slumping, Kessel is slumping (or hungry), Murray is slumping(and hurt, and maybe not what we hoped he was). Those are our big dogs. When they suck it's gonna make it very hard to win.
Add in brassard unable to excel outside of a trap system and you have a situation making it very hard to win.

I know in the past firing the coach has been our magic pill. But this time I just don't buy it and I think if we hadnt witnessed fired coaches leading to cups 3x then there wouldn't be clamoring for a new coach constantly.

Sully has to be better, but imo he's the best Pittsburgh coach of any team since I've started watching sports. We watched his system (and JRs roster) revolutionize hockey and make constant adjjstments in the playoffs leading to wins. I don't want to lose that as an attempt at an easy fix for a struggling team. The risk out weighs the upside

But a lot of what's wrong with the club seems to be the players simply not buying into, or executing, what Sullivan is telling them to do. At what point does a team not doing what they're supposed to reflect on the coach's ability (or inability) to get them to buy into it?

Your concern is that firing Sullivan won't solve anything and we could lose a potential high-end coach through a knee-jerk reaction. Alright, maybe. But on the other side, my concern is we do what we did with Bylsma and hang onto a coach for too long, only to then realize 3 years too late that he should have been fired awhile ago. Only this time, the window with Sid and Geno has closed for good because they're 35 when they finally pull the trigger on the firing.

 

[Turin]

Mike Babcock has a stacked, young roster. His players also hate him. Overrated as hell.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Our chances at winning get smaller each year(as our top players age) but they could just sacrifice this season to give them even better odds the next few seasons. Doesn't mean tank on purpose(doing fine losing on their own) but we shouldnt force making big moves to try to win it all just because of our " window'. If its not there this year(seems like too many issues) then just get that top lottery pick. And make trades at deadline to make this team better going forward.

Sell Brassard at deadline. Hes not a fit and we could get first round +. Maybe Rust..if hes not in future plans(Bellerive and Hallander hopefully reach their ceilings) . Maatta as well.

He might not have great value right now but come deadline? When teams are going all in to compete for it all? Value goes way up.

If we turn it around great..go for it all. But if this keeps up. Sacrifce a season..making next few years even better.

Everyone is caught up in the mindset that each year is our best chance to win and goes downhill after every season. But make certain moves to better the team for this current window and also extending it .

This is actually a great opportunity that we didnt think was possible. Missing the playoffs with Crosby/Malkin/Kessel? I say take advantage of it if the losing continues. Dont trade away our first rounder again and mortgage the future.

If JR plays this right...we could miss the playoffs this year, getting that lottery pick and selling at deadline to add even more(NHL ready talent and another first round pick(s) ) and then win back to back again.

 

[EightyOne]

There is always a possibility that they ARE tanking already. Just trying to do it in the least obvious way (you know, to spare us the Caps and Flyers fans bitching so much). Gradually just keep losing a majority of games, running backup goalies, while the stars produce at rates that are acceptable, only to completely turn it around in 2019-2020+. Maybe? Please...

 

[Angrrus]

Letang was bad bad bad bad. Where was his famous "fenomenal skating", "footspeed" and "athleticism" on the shorthanded goal? A big body 4th line plug outskated him easily on a straight line. Not even mentioning two dumb penalties in very inconvenient time. And 0 points that could at least partially compensate for his dumb mistakes.

Letang is overrated and overhyped by the mob of fanboys who are irrationally in love with him. All his Corsis and "plays that drive possession" are useless and irrelevant when he makes costly dumb mistakes, how much more so in playoffs.

Malkin and Kessel didn't show up again. At this point, money should be withheld from their salaries for performances like this. Two lazy idiots.

Like I said before, It's hard to beat even a team like Flyers if only 1 of your 4 top stars shows up to play. I feel sorry for Sid. He's really trying hard, but he gets no support from the bunch of lazy morons who are his teammates.

 

[Angrrus]

The core doesn't have anything left in them.
All that talk about having a full summer and being super hungry again was bull****.
I hope they're hurt cuz atm they look lazy and dumb.

Brassard and Phil can gtfo cuz i think Geno's hurt.

That's what I was saying in spring.

And got called "a troll" and other names for that.

 

[Ryder71]

Letang was the worst Penguin tonight followed by terrible games both by Kessel and Malkin.

Malkin needs to be a better 5 on 5 center. He just doesn’t do thing little things right like having his stick on the right side of the puck in the defensive zone or forcing a pass on a two on one.

In fairness to Letang he's been pretty impressive up until recently. Geno has been struggling for a little while now. This team needs a jolt to the system, oh and another mobile PMD with better play in net.

 

[Angrrus]

This team just isn't that good.

Its old and slow.

Not enough good forwards.

The d is terrible outside of Dumo and Letang.

The goalies aren't good enough.

Their are just so many holes on this team.

And Letang isn't good either.

 

[Turin]

And Letang isn't good either.

Letang has been at worst a top 10 defenseman in the nhl this year but ok

 

[Hockey Freak 7]

Brassard bring this team down.

He never mesh nor fit well. Never gave this team a spark fire they needed behind Sid& Geno.
Prime example : last Two game Mike Sullivan send him to give him chance so he can deploy his big guns next.. I guess..

AVs players iced the puck two - three times with Brassard and his line was very fresh on the ice to obtain offensive pressure instead his didn’t win a face off nor do nothing. He turn the puck over.

Mike Sullivan deploys him to offensive zone to do something before he deploys big guns instead he pass the puck to Flyers defenders.
Brassard wears down this team. He wears down Kessel. They never mesh , anyway. Sullivan keep tryna overcompensate him and spark him. He divides Kessel & Malkin to get a spark from him. It hurt Kessel more that help. Kessel seem to be try crest some and go bad with Brassard. So Malkin get stuff with One goal Rust on his line.
Brassard turns the puck over a lot and just don’t bring it and he has every opportunity with a lot wingers. So he’s the problem. Weak on the puck, passing and to perimeter for Penguins. Weak on battles , creating for players etc.. he skates in circles...
He don’t do work here. It was some evidence there last season.
Kessel is far from the problem on this team. Brassard is a passenger. Penguins are fed up.
Brassard is getting move. Good . Inevitable. Get reliable 3C that be great offensively and defensively. Go to dirty areas etc..

 

[Angrrus]

Letang has been at worst a top 10 defenseman in the nhl this year but ok

By corsi?

 

[Son Goku]

By corsi?

Letang has been amazing this year. One bad game doesn't change that, come on.

 

[Turin]

By corsi?

He’s almost a ppg. Literally every stat.

 

[EightyOne]

By corsi?

He was a big problem, often, last year. This year he is one of the few positives on the team.

Letang has been amazing this year. One bad game doesn't change that, come on.

He’s almost a ppg. Literally every stat.

Yes.

 

[HandshakeLine]

By corsi?

Oh good, it's the advanced stats cargo cult!

Moneyball is a pox on the world and stats majors should be hunted for sport.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

There is always a possibility that they ARE tanking already. Just trying to do it in the least obvious way (you know, to spare us the Caps and Flyers fans *****ing so much). Gradually just keep losing a majority of games, running backup goalies, while the stars produce at rates that are acceptable, only to completely turn it around in 2019-2020+. Maybe? Please...

I don't know what they are doing but question is how they could go from winning back to back cups(2016 no team stood a chance..2017 it was closer but most resilient team Ive ever seen) to this?

Goaltending is one of the main things IMO. Alot blame our D but they made mistakes during those cup runs too...Murray and Fleury stopped those chances against tho. We constantly heard from other fans that " we werent the better team, our goalies are just stealing the games". And now we don't have that. Thanks to the expansion we didnt have the luxury of going with Murray/Fleury for one more season(who knows..they may have kept MAF with Murray still being inexperienced and few injuries..point is without the expansion theres no hurry to get rid of Fleury..could have waited ). And now this year, we are back to where we were with Fleury years ago. Didnt think Murray would fall off this much but knew he would take a step back. With our current window, Id rather have a goalie in his 30s..already past the growing pains. Which is where Fleury is at now.

Sully/system is another problem. We went from plugging anyone into the lineup and doing well to almost the opposite. That needs to be figured out...

Teams adjusted to our speed. So it might be time to switch things up. And you can do that when you have the top end talent we have. What needs to be fixed is the production we get from our bottom 6.

 

[Son Goku]

I don't know what they are doing but question is how they could go from winning back to back cups(2016 no team stood a chance..2017 it was closer but most resilient team Ive ever seen) to this?

Goaltending is one of the main things IMO. Alot blame our D but they made mistakes during those cup runs too...Murray and Fleury stopped those chances against tho. We constantly heard from other fans that " we werent the better team, our goalies are just stealing the games". And now we don't have that. Thanks to the expansion we didnt have the luxury of going with Murray/Fleury for one more season(who knows..they may have kept MAF with Murray still being inexperienced and few injuries..point is without the expansion theres no hurry to get rid of Fleury..could have waited ). And now this year, we are back to where we were with Fleury years ago. Didnt think Murray would fall off this much but knew he would take a step back. With our current window, Id rather have a goalie in his 30s..already past the growing pains. Which is where Fleury is at now.

Sully/system is another problem. We went from plugging anyone into the lineup and doing well to almost the opposite. That needs to be figured out...

Teams adjusted to our speed. So it might be time to switch things up. And you can do that when you have the top end talent we have. What needs to be fixed is the production we get from our bottom 6.

I think we have to solve Geno and Kessel's problem (ahem... playing them together) once those two are rolling we can bank on more victories. Our bottom six is a fine group of players. Nobody really sticks out as "they suck" besides maybe Sheahan but he's certainly not Carter Rowney by any means. I really really blame how this year is going so far on coaching and defense pairings. We just bleed turnovers and shots. Sometimes we look completely clueless out there. Jack Johnson should be blasted into outter space along with Olli Maatta. God I wish we had somebody like Tanev. OR an in his prime Brent Seabrook.

 

[Son Goku]

Also if we acquire Jimmy f***ing Howard I'm buying a flyers Jersey.

 

[The Old Master]

Sully has to be better, but imo he's the best Pittsburgh coach of any team since I've started watching sports. We watched his system (and JRs roster) revolutionize hockey and make constant adjjstments in the playoffs leading to wins. I don't want to lose that as an attempt at an easy fix for a struggling team. The risk out weighs the upside

totally agree. but unless he's willing to realis that things have changed, and what worked yesterday is not working today and change. he may need to go. some coaches need to get fired before they are willing to humble themselves and change, and some never will.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

We’ll yeah that’s why we signed DEREK GRANT baby!!!!11!!!

I don’t hate Grant, he’s just vanilla and doesn’t help or hurt you. If you want to play breakeven hockey, I guess he’s your man.

He and JJ don’t fit the style of hockey the Pens claim they want to play, which concerns me about how they are evaluating guys. Throw in ZAR who they are treating like some top ten pick, and it has me a little concerned about their ability to find the right guys for how JR keeps claiming he wants this team to play.

JR did get Brassard, and I’m still confused why he isn’t fitting it. He’s always been a really good player, and if you told me this time last year they would have Brass and Kessel together I’d expect a dominant pair...