Flyers' 2017-18 roster discussion, part 5

[The Madrigal]

Seriously, I've seen people call him a figure skater, an entitled punk, a bust, a "one way player" like we couldn't use a Patrick Kane or Johnny Gaudreau lol.

All seems bizarre if you've watched the guy play this past season and last years playoffs.

Yep, he's a stud and just scratching the surface in terms of his talent and likely production as an NHL player.

 

[Striiker]

If that's true then what's Tampa Bays motivation to trade him?
Do we remember that both teams have to agree to the trade?
And if's he's so amazing in their eyes then cap space won't be an issue because they'll prioritize him over others and make room.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Seriously, I've seen people call him a figure skater, an entitled punk, a bust, a "one way player" like we couldn't use a Patrick Kane or Johnny Gaudreau lol.

All seems bizarre if you've watched the guy play this past season and last years playoffs.

You're projecting one poster's (one that generally makes off the wall posts in general regardless of the subject) comments on everybody else. Drouin is a good player however he's not worth the cost to acquire him which is more so the general consensus here.

 

[Rebels57]

You're projecting one poster's (one that generally makes off the wall posts in general regardless of the subject) comments on everybody else. Drouin is a good player however he's not worth the cost to acquire him which is more so the general consensus here.

They two of them have been going on about Drouin for what seems like eternity.

 

[deadhead]

Drouin is now in his 4th season, he's not an uber-talent, because uber-talents usually explode on entry.
He's also has some character issues, you don't get sent back to the AHL in your second season b/c you're a talented boy scout.
5'11 188

He may make pretty plays, but he's simply not that productive.
[his power play production has little value for the Flyers, he'd just be replacing another production PP forward]
2016-17: 73g ES 12-15 27 CorsiRel 1.5 GF/60 2.4 GA 2.8 16 blks, 50 hits
2014-15: 70g ES 1-25 26 CorsiRel 1.5 GF/60 2.7 GA 2.3 17 blks, 56 hits

Drouin is a scorer period, he wants to be paid and I suspect once he's paid he'll be less included to work on his defense. If you ignore his defense, and play him on the 1st line and the top PP unit, he'll probably be good for 60-65 points (30-35 at ES) in his prime - i.e. he'll be JVR. Now we should have gotten a better deal for JVR than L Schenn, but still . . .

Martin Fennelly of the Tampa Bay Times:

Sure he can disappear at times, has the odd brain cramp and has had some issues with the coaching staff, but “talent is talent.”

We already have Voracek.
We're adding Lindblom and #2 and Konecny will be a better player this year.
Why would we trade serious assets to add a scorer who wants a big contract (6x6 or more)?

 

[Curufinwe]

They two of them have been going on about Drouin for what seems like eternity.

It makes me almost miss the days when "Flyers in on Big Buff" was the annoying rumor getting beat into the ground.

 

[Rebels57]

It makes me almost miss the days when "Flyers in on Big Buff" was the annoying rumor getting beat into the ground.

He's big and tough so of course he has to be a Flyer one day because: 70's

 

[Roo Mad Bro]

Is it just me being a homer but is Werenski getting really overrated or what? Relative to Provorov.

Completely different situations and roles. I'd comfortably take Provorov out of the 2 going forward. No knock on Werenski at all as he's great but man there is a huge consensus gap between the two by the average poster on this site.

 

[Curufinwe]

Provorov getting underrated on the main boards because he didn't score 10-15 points on PP2.

Sounds familiar.

 

[Rebels57]

Is it just me being a homer but is Werenski getting really overrated or what? Relative to Provorov.

Completely different situations and roles. I'd comfortably take Provorov out of the 2 going forward. No knock on Werenski at all as he's great but man there is a huge consensus gap between the two by the average poster on this site.

Provorov is better defensively and only had 1 less ES point despite playing on a Flyers (26th in ES goals) team that was faaarrrr worse at ES than Columbus (6th in ES goals).

Provorov was 8th on the Flyers in ES points. Werenski 13th on Columbus.

 

[Magua]

Provorov getting underrated on the main boards because he didn't score 10-15 points on PP2.

Sounds familiar.

You can't be a top pairing d-man unless you get more PP points. Common sense and all.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

He's pretty good. A duo of Werenski & Jones isn't really fun to think about in the same division. I like Savard too even though he's not in those guys league.

I don't really care too much of getting into **** measuring competitions though. No side is going to give in when it comes to their guy regardless of whatever is presented.

 

[deadhead]

I think we'd be happy with either player.

 

[Magua]

If we didn't have Ghost/Sanheim, Werenski would be more of a need. As is, Provorov is the defenseman THIS team needs. There's no real gap, and it has worked out well for both teams.

 

[Curufinwe]

Poor Arizona got stromed by Don Maloney.

 

[Lindberg]

You're projecting one poster's (one that generally makes off the wall posts in general regardless of the subject) comments on everybody else. Drouin is a good player however he's not worth the cost to acquire him which is more so the general consensus here.

Some posters tend to ignore reality (salary cap/flyers needs).

Drouin isn't really a need and you're only going to get a marginal increase in production from him by replacing Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn, Konency, and possibly the #2/Lindblom (depends on how these two play out).

Makes me wonder why people think the flyers give up a player of positional need for what essentially is a spare part? Have people been asleep watching Nashville out play the Penguins?

 

[Flyotes]

I still like Strome.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Smith is a goalie that benefits from the Phoenix system. Bryan was the last guy that the Flyers got out of that and it didn't turn out well. Pass on him.

Smith was a pretty clear #2 in HDSA/60 to Lundqvist last year. I'm not sure it matters what system you're playing if you're doing it that poorly.

Not that I want him at that price.

 

[deadhead]

He's big and tough so of course he has to be a Flyer one day because: 70's

Well, there is a Flyers' aesthetic.

While the days of the Broad Street Bullies are past, I don't want to watch an Eagles team that doesn't play tough defense nor a Flyers team that figure skates instead of hitting people.

Which is why I'm happy Hextall did his apprenticeship with the Kings.
There's a tradeoff between speed/skill and toughness, I'd just rather the Flyers err on the side of toughness.

One reason I don't care about whether we end up with Nico/Nolan is that while Nolan is bigger and more physical, from all accounts Nico is scrappy and plays defense and welcomes physical play. So no wimp factor here.

I like Konecny b/c he might be a little guy, but he has an edge, just has to add some muscle so he doesn't get himself killed doing stupid things like trying to check Buff. Cousins is little but also has that edge.

MacDonald has to go b/c he's a wimp, not just because he's mediocre. At least Manning will hit someone and clear the crease, just don't allow him to handle the puck.

The point is if you're a "real" Flyers fan, you want a team that hits and forechecks and plays high intensity, smart, 60 minute hockey over a team that's skilled and scores but is soft. You can win both ways, but I want to win the "Flyers way." Now it is the new millenium, no brain dead (we talkin' to you, Rinaldo) types allowed, no more goons, no big immobile defensemen.

Gudas is a good role model (aggressive up to the edge of the law, but not over the cliff). Couts may not be dirty but he's smart, responsible and not afraid of crowds. Provorov isn't as nasty as Gudas, but he uses his body and will protect his crease.

Like I said, it's a matter of aesthetics. I grew up with the "Bullies," and while that day is long gone, hockey is supposed to be a tough, physical game, not the Ice Capades. And if you don't like it, go root for the Maple Leafs.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Smith was a pretty clear #2 in HDSA/60 to Lundqvist last year. I'm not sure it matters what system you're playing if you're doing it that poorly.

Not that I want him at that price.

Yeah I don't think system matters too much with Arizona's roster last year:
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...r=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals,assists

It would depend on the asking price. If it's on the cheaper side I wouldn't mind it. If you could trade like Read & a 4th rounder for him I'd do that. Chayka being an advanced stat guy will probably have a more favorable outlook on Read. You swap $3.625M with Read for $5.67M in cap on the year. Smith is making $6M salary this year while Read's with $3.5M in salary.

 

[Rebels57]

Yeah I don't think system matters too much with Arizona's roster last year:
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...r=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals,assists

It would depend on the asking price. If it's on the cheaper side I wouldn't mind it.

I'd be willing to do a conditional 2018 4th for Smith.

Then at the 2017 Draft, trade one of our three 4ths for an extra pick next season to compensate.

If the Flyers make it to the 3rd round, the pick becomes a 3rd. If they win the Cup, a 2nd. Something creative like that.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I don't really care too much of getting into **** measuring competitions though. No side is going to give in when it comes to their guy regardless of whatever is presented.

It's the absolute worst. It's as unproductive as discussing politics or religion on social media. Provorov and Werenski are both excellent, especially relative to their age. I'm fine ending the discussion there.

Likewise, I really hope we can let the Nico vs Nolan thing go after the draft.

 

[Striiker]

You can't be a top pairing d-man unless you get more PP points. Common sense and all.

Luckily for him, he wasn't taken in the 5th round so he has a chance.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

If you're a "real" Flyers fan

You're degenerating into a WIP caller.

 

[NatP4]

Some posters tend to ignore reality (salary cap/flyers needs).

Drouin isn't really a need and you're only going to get a marginal increase in production from him by replacing Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn, Konency, and possibly the #2/Lindblom (depends on how these two play out).

Makes me wonder why people think the flyers give up a player of positional need for what essentially is a spare part? Have people been asleep watching Nashville out play the Penguins?

Nashville is losing, Kris Letang is not playing