Flyers' 2017-18 roster discussion, part 5

[flyersfan187]

Halak is the goalie I would be targeting that you can get cheap. That is if Mason really does want out of Philly.

 

[deadhead]

Don't really care who the goalies are this season, I'd rather miss the playoffs losing a bunch of 6-5 shootouts than make the playoffs winning 3-2 behind a veteran goalie on a hot streak he's unlikely to repeat.

This season it's more important to develop the young forwards and defensemen, and build a solid team, than to win games and make the playoffs (a nice bonus if the young players come through). Once you have a solid team in place, when a young goalie emerges you'll be ready to make multiple cup runs.

So all I care is that Hextall doesn't spend a lot of future assets on a stopgap goalie.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

I say no to Mike Smith for many reasons.

I will second that and also say no to Mike Smith.

He kinda reminds me of Sean "Beachball' Burke.

 

[NatP4]

I really want to see how Ghost does with a better d partner. His even strength decisions were poor most of last season, but that could have been to the fact that he was over thinking everything instead of just playing the game. Morin/Ghost would be the ideal pairing I'd like to see to start the season.

If Drouin is still on the block I would offer Ghost up one for one for him in a heartbeat though with all the talent coming in on the back end for the Flyers in the coming seasons.

This would be a great trade for both teams

 

[Random Forest]

I understand the thought behind "letting things play out" this coming season, but this team will have three solid scoring lines and what could be a very strong fourth line. If the Flyers pick up a decent goalie and a reliable, veteran defender who can play tough minutes, anything short of the playoffs would be a disappointment. Next season's roster will be much better on paper than last season's.

Let's say they acquire Smith and a defender like Karl Alzner (depending on the price, of course), we'd be looking at a roster that should have higher hopes than to view this coming season as a "transition year".

Lindblom-Giroux-Voracek
Konecny-Couturier-Schenn
Filppula-Patrick-Simmonds
Weise-Bellemarre-Raffl/Read/Weal/Vecchione/Laughton

Provorov-Gudas
Alzner-Gostisbehere
Morin/Sanheim/Hagg-MacDonald

Smith
Neuvirth


I'd even consider making a play for Chris Tanev depending on how much Vancouver is looking for. The point is that I don't think this team is missing too much. I don't see why next season should be considered a write off.

 

[deadhead]

Why are people enamoured with Drouin?
Really, his own team is offering him around, that doesn't scare you?
Sure, he can score, if you put him on the first PP. So can Schenn. So could Gagner (check his first three seasons against Drouin).

I may not think Ghost is a superstar like some, but a defensemen who can give you 10-20 30 at ES has a lot more value than a one dimensional forward with the same scoring skills.

Voracek for Drouin plus would make more sense, since you'd be swapping an older expensive offense first winger for a young, slight less (after you sign him to his 6x6 deal) expensive offense first winger. And that would allow you to move Konency to RW.

Now, if two years from now, Sanheim and Myers live up to their billing, at that point you might consider offers for Ghost. Even then, I'd be more inclined to land a more physical two way winger for Rubtsov's line, especially if they decide not to extend Simmonds.

 

[Striiker]

Great for both teams... except for the Flyers.

 

[Curufinwe]

I understand the thought behind "letting things play out" this coming season, but this team will have three solid scoring lines and what could be a very strong fourth line. If the Flyers pick up a decent goalie and a reliable, veteran defender who can play tough minutes, anything short of the playoffs would be a disappointment. Next season's roster will be much better on paper than last season's.

Let's say they acquire Smith and a defender like Karl Alzner (depending on the price, of course), we'd be looking at a roster that should have higher hopes than to view this coming season as a "transition year".

Lindblom-Giroux-Voracek
Konecny-Couturier-Schenn
Filppula-Patrick-Simmonds
Weise-Bellemarre-Raffl/Read/Weal/Vecchione/Laughton

Provorov-Gudas
Alzner-Gostisbehere
Morin/Sanheim/Hagg-MacDonald

Smith
Neuvirth


I'd even consider making a play for Chris Tanev depending on how much Vancouver is looking for. The point is that I don't think this team is missing too much. I don't see why next season should be considered a write off.

Agree in principle, but Alzner is the next Orpik. I wouldn't go near him.

 

[deadhead]

I'd even consider making a play for Chris Tanev depending on how much Vancouver is looking for. The point is that I don't think this team is missing too much. I don't see why next season should be considered a write off.

It's not a matter of writing off the season, it's a matter of not spending serious assets to try and rush the rebuild. There are going to be a lot of growing pains with all the rookies and second and third year players on the roster.

When you have a young team, you're best served by letting them play and hope lightning strikes (i.e. they get good faster than expected). When that happens, the next season is the time you accelerate the schedule, AFTER you know you have the talent to compete, instead of HOPING you have the talent to compete.

Nor is there a top goalie out there that would make a huge difference (i.e. with second and third tier guys, it's more about someone getting hot at the right time). Same way a Tanev isn't going to put them over the top, so he's not worth real assets, if you can pick him up cheap, sure, but he's basically going to be a minor upgrade.

I fully expect Hextall to make some "tweaks" using extra players and later round draft picks, but nothing drastic, unless he feels one of the current "core" players doesn't suit his vision of the team going forward, in that case, it'll be less about winning now than reshaping the roster.

 

[Random Forest]

Agree in principle, but Alzner is the next Orpik. I wouldn't go near him.

Yeah, I agree Alzner isn't the stalwart that some might believe he is, but I've seen enough of him to be convinced he'd be a reliable as a #4 on a good team. His value comes down to the contract he gets in UFA, and I'm not sure he'll get a backbreaker of a deal.

Tanev, OTOH, is an impact defender, and I'd kick the tires even if it'd take some value to acquire him. I'd still be in favor of reacquiring Coburn too, but I don't think TB will lose him if they don't have to. I think that type of veteran defender is the biggest hole on next year's roster.

 

[renberg]

Smith is a goalie that benefits from the Phoenix system. Bryan was the last guy that the Flyers got out of that and it didn't turn out well. Pass on him.

 

[Random Forest]

It's not a matter of writing off the season, it's a matter of not spending serious assets to try and rush the rebuild. There are going to be a lot of growing pains with all the rookies and second and third year players on the roster.

The "rebuild" has been going on for about four years now. Nothing is being rushed. The roster is strong on paper. Looking to solidify it wouldn't be impatient. The prospect pool is as deep as any team in the league, we've got plenty of draft picks this year, and we have a pretty exciting blend of youth and vets next year. This can be a competitive team, and that shouldn't be ignored for the sake of having an overabundance of patience. Patience and competitiveness aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I think there's definitely a difference in goalies on the trade market opposed to on the free agent market. If Mason's off the table you're looking at essentially backup caliber goalies on the free agent market.

 

[deadhead]

At some point you have to play Morin, Sanheim and Hagg.

We already have Provorov, Gudas and Ghost, so if you bring in a veteran defender (and I don't think Tanev or Alzner would be major upgrades) you delegating two to the third line and one kid to the press box.

That's more the kind of move you make when you have a contending team and one of your starting D-men is injured or leaves in free agency and your prospects aren't ready. As we saw, plugging holes with Grossman, L Schenn and MacDonald didn't help much, and we only got a couple years out of Streit. And that was a team they felt was a playoff contender. It cost us a bunch of 2nd and 3rd rd picks and LHV. And stuck us with an albatross of a contract.

Now if you're talking Cousins and a 5th for Tanev, sure.
Because if one or two of the kids step up, you can flip him for a 3rd.

 

[Rebels57]

I think there's definitely a difference in goalies on the trade market opposed to on the free agent market. If Mason's off the table you're looking at essentially backup caliber goalies on the free agent market.

If Vegas ends up with 3 or 4 NHL calibre goalies, it might be our best option to trade for one of them.

 

[deadhead]

The "rebuild" has been going on for about four years now.

This is the fourth year. It began when Hextall took over, stopped trading draft picks and started shedding contracts. Given how badly the talent pipleline was empty under Holmgren, they're right on schedule.

I've been watching marginal veterans for four years clog the ice, I want to see the kids play and find out what they've got.

 

[Striiker]

I understand the thought behind "letting things play out" this coming season, but this team will have three solid scoring lines and what could be a very strong fourth line. If the Flyers pick up a decent goalie and a reliable, veteran defender who can play tough minutes, anything short of the playoffs would be a disappointment. Next season's roster will be much better on paper than last season's.

Let's say they acquire Smith and a defender like Karl Alzner (depending on the price, of course), we'd be looking at a roster that should have higher hopes than to view this coming season as a "transition year".

Lindblom-Giroux-Voracek
Konecny-Couturier-Schenn
Filppula-Patrick-Simmonds
Weise-Bellemarre-Raffl/Read/Weal/Vecchione/Laughton

Provorov-Gudas
Alzner-Gostisbehere
Morin/Sanheim/Hagg-MacDonald

Smith
Neuvirth


I'd even consider making a play for Chris Tanev depending on how much Vancouver is looking for. The point is that I don't think this team is missing too much. I don't see why next season should be considered a write off.

While I don't quite like the idea of buying players to try to compete next year, it's not because next year is viewed as a write off.

I see it as a year where I'm expecting playoffs, hoping for a deep run, praying for a little luck to get them to the finals.

But I don't think they'll be quite ready to compete so making moves like that to kinda "finalize" a competing roster just seems too early. Too many things to hope for, I think. Hope that 2nd overall has a good rookie year, hope that whatever D prospect(s) comes up does the same, hope we find a goalie that's at least semi-reliable, and hope that the rest of the roster is at least close to playing at their true skill levels.

And I know that every team has a lot to hope for, even true contenders, so there's no sure thing when it comes to playoff rosters and you can't just wait until it seems "safe", because it never will be. But like I said, it just seems early.

 

[The Madrigal]

Yeah, I agree Alzner isn't the stalwart that some might believe he is, but I've seen enough of him to be convinced he'd be a reliable as a #4 on a good team. His value comes down to the contract he gets in UFA, and I'm not sure he'll get a backbreaker of a deal.

Alzner is a really good, solid, top 4 defenseman. The problem is he will probably get overpaid as a UFA. He would instantly make the Flyers a better team however and I don't how anyone could dispute that.

Tanev, OTOH, is an impact defender, and I'd kick the tires even if it'd take some value to acquire him.

Agreed on Tanev. He is a very good and underrated defenseman right in his prime on a reasonable cap hit. That is exactly why I don't see any way the Canucks trade him.

I'd still be in favor of reacquiring Coburn too, but I don't think TB will lose him if they don't have to. I think that type of veteran defender is the biggest hole on next year's roster.

Coburn is toast. At best he improves the third pairing which I don't see as a big issue for the team. I would rather break in a young defenseman in that role at a fraction of the cost. I still can't believe the Flyers ended up with Gudas and Konecny for him. Yzerman gets so much praise as a GM but he got absolutely destroyed on that one.

 

[NatP4]

Why are people enamoured with Drouin?
Really, his own team is offering him around, that doesn't scare you?
Sure, he can score, if you put him on the first PP. So can Schenn. So could Gagner (check his first three seasons against Drouin).

I may not think Ghost is a superstar like some, but a defensemen who can give you 10-20 30 at ES has a lot more value than a one dimensional forward with the same scoring skills.

Voracek for Drouin plus would make more sense, since you'd be swapping an older expensive offense first winger for a young, slight less (after you sign him to his 6x6 deal) expensive offense first winger. And that would allow you to move Konency to RW.

Now, if two years from now, Sanheim and Myers live up to their billing, at that point you might consider offers for Ghost. Even then, I'd be more inclined to land a more physical two way winger for Rubtsov's line, especially if they decide not to extend Simmonds.

Have you consistently watched him play or are you just reading some stats? He has 1000x more talent than Schenn or Gagner.

The Lightning aren't even trying to trade him, it just makes sense that a team that has needed a top 4 offensive dman for years and has some cap issues would be looking to make a move. They can't give Drouin the long term deal and then pay Kucherov they could go bridge deal but then have issues down the road. They would rather move Tyler Johnson obviously but he doesn't get you a top 4 offensive defensman.

You've seen the quotes from Lightning front office members, saying he can be a PPG player and best passer since Wayne Gretzky?

 

[Curufinwe]

Yeah, I agree Alzner isn't the stalwart that some might believe he is, but I've seen enough of him to be convinced he'd be a reliable as a #4 on a good team. His value comes down to the contract he gets in UFA, and I'm not sure he'll get a backbreaker of a deal.

Seeing Washington fans say his body has broken down is the biggest warning sign.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2352215&page=3&highlight=alzner

 

[The Madrigal]

Have you consistently watched him play or are you just reading some stats? He has 1000x more talent than Schenn or Gagner.

The Lightning aren't even trying to trade him, it just makes sense that a team that has needed a top 4 offensive dman for years and has some cap issues would be looking to make a move. They can't give Drouin the long term deal and then pay Kucherov they could go bridge deal but then have issues down the road. They would rather move Tyler Johnson obviously but he doesn't get you a top 4 offensive defensman.

You've seen the quotes from Lightning front office members, saying he can be a PPG player and best passer since Wayne Gretzky?

Don't bother. Pretty much everyone on this board thinks Drouin is some dime a dozen 50 point winger who is "only good on the PP."

You have to give something up to get something good and while I wouldn't trade Ghost lightly I would certainly think long and hard about doing so for Drouin. Drouin would instantly be the Flyers 3rd best forward with the potential to be their best eventually.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

If Vegas ends up with 3 or 4 NHL calibre goalies, it might be our best option to trade for one of them.

If they trade for Fleury I'd try to grab Grubauer & Subban as the other goalies & roll with that next year. Fleury gives you a starter in the short term & a credible name. Grubauer gives you a youngish goalie to backup & hopefully takeover for Fleury sometime before his two years end. Subban is essentially your older goalie prospect who still has waiver eligibility. If Grubauer & Subban progress enough next year you can trade Fleury in the offseason for picks.

 

[Curufinwe]

Subban isn't waiver exempt.

https://www.capfriendly.com/waivers_calculator/malcolm-subban

Smith is a goalie that benefits from the Phoenix system. Bryan was the last guy that the Flyers got out of that and it didn't turn out well. Pass on him.

That team lost a lot of overall strength since Bryz left. I don't know how much a system can protect a goalie when the skaters are near the bottom of the league in overall talent.

 

[NatP4]

Don't bother. Pretty much everyone on this board thinks Drouin is some dime a dozen 50 point winger who is "only good on the PP."

You have to give something up to get something good and while I wouldn't trade Ghost lightly I would certainly think long and hard about doing so for Drouin. Drouin would instantly be the Flyers 3rd best forward with the potential to be their best eventually.

Seriously, I've seen people call him a figure skater, an entitled punk, a bust, a "one way player" like we couldn't use a Patrick Kane or Johnny Gaudreau lol.

All seems bizarre if you've watched the guy play this past season and last years playoffs.

 

[Random Forest]

I don't think the mindset needs to be that you're "finalizing" your roster in order to make competitive moves. On paper, we're going to have a team better than several that made the playoffs this season. Will it be an unproven team? Sure, but that's why you solidify a young, but talented, roster with reliable players.

I'm not suggesting we go out and trade a top prospect or something to put us over the top. I'm saying that the lineup is solid enough that we can look to supplement it with a good-value addition. Look at Minnesota adding Eric Staal, for example. They weren't exactly preseason contenders, but that's the kind of low-risk move that made them more competitive.

I mean, just look at Columbus's roster... or Ottawa's. You can argue that those teams were flukey, but I just don't see any reason we shouldn't expect a competitive team next year.