Flyers' 2017-18 roster discussion, part 2

[Striiker]

Reality check, if a player can't force his way into the lineup, you're not going to miss him.
There are always injuries and chances for players to shine, Weal took advantage of his, Leier didn't. Both Weal and Cousins went back to the AHL, worked hard and improved. We'll see if Leier shows that kind of improvement this fall. It really is that simple.

If Laughton isn't the 4th line center next year, it won't be because of PEB, who could always move to forward or the 13th man in the pressbox, it'll be because Laughton doesn't build on his AHL season this year. They know he can give them 20 points as the 4th line center, can he play solid defense and contribute on the PK?

You keep saying the same thing and it keeps being proven wrong. I don't understand why you can't get this through your head. Maybe it's ignorance, maybe it's stubbornness, or maybe you do actually get it but refuse to admit it because doing so would contradict all of your Hakstol excuses... but I'll say it again one more time.

If what you're saying was true, and the way a player gets on the roster is by outplaying a current roster player, then Vandevelde wouldn't be on the roster or have played in any games this year. He's been outplayed by every single forward that's seen any games this year and yet he's still there while others are demoted or healthy scratched. He hasn't been scratched a single time and superior players have been... there's no legitimate defense for that. You can make pathetic excuses, but they're all bull**** He serves no purpose, he excels at nothing, he provides nothing, he is nothing. Bad at 5v5, bad on the PK, won't be anywhere near the PP. If he played without a stick there would be no difference at all.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

the ONLY reason VdV is on the roster and in the game night in night out. is cuz his having played for Hakslogic in UND...

if you dont beleive that, then you are flat out wrong...

if Haks is/was gone so would VdV instantly..

 

[Tripod]

Reality check, if a player can't force his way into the lineup, you're not going to miss him.
There are always injuries and chances for players to shine, Weal took advantage of his, Leier didn't. Both Weal and Cousins went back to the AHL, worked hard and improved. We'll see if Leier shows that kind of improvement this fall. It really is that simple.

If Laughton isn't the 4th line center next year, it won't be because of PEB, who could always move to forward or the 13th man in the pressbox, it'll be because Laughton doesn't build on his AHL season this year. They know he can give them 20 points as the 4th line center, can he play solid defense and contribute on the PK?

ORRRRR.....it could be that Hak has his favorites and he ices a worse team every night because of it. Dressing VDV every night is the proof.

 

[Tripod]

PEB is an insurance policy because we don't have enough NHL ready centers in the organization. Nothing very complicated. He'll probably draft a couple centers this year, and might trade a RW for a young center if he can work a deal. But you don't want to go into the draft and offseason having to add someone and overpay.

Wrong again.

Re-signing Belle to a 1 year deal for 1 million is an insurance policy. Re-signing Belle to a 2 year deal at 1.4 million per AND giving him an A is much, much more.

 

[tictactoe]

Let's just go sign Kovalchuk...

That would be awesome. A sniper is what this team needs. Especially a left handed sniper but Kovalchuk will not come to play for Philadelphia.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Kovalchuk is right handed.

 

[deadhead]

I think Appleyard listed a number of ND players, including one or two on the Phantoms, that Hakstol could have played. This idea that VdV is only on the team b/c of ND is ridiculous, and proven by the marginal talents that people list to replace him. These "superior" players haven't done squat in the NHL, or even that much in the AHL.

I'm not in love with VdV, but I have no illusions about the marginal forwards that were the alternative this season. Hopefully, when Lindblom comes over, and if Laughton actually has learned how to play, and maybe they resign Weal, and Leier gets stronger and more polished, this won't be an issue next year. But this year it was always irrelevant, no one you could put in there instead of VdV would have made a lick of difference, the same way playing Schultz or Manning over MacDonald would have made any difference.

Does it really matter if we finish with 85 or 87 points, other than draft position - because 1-2 points is about the maximum impact of replacing VdV and MacDonald in the lineup this season. Shuffling the deck chairs on the Titantic didn't keep her from sinking!

 

[Striiker]

I've never said he's playing because of going to ND. I assume most people are kidding when they say that's the reason.

He's playing because the coach can't properly evaluate talent. Vandevelde has been outplayed by plenty of guys, who could all have replaced him and made the team better by doing so, but he's still here. The fact that he hasn't been scratched once this year, while other have been, is all the proof anyone needs. You can make all the excuses you want, but anyone who has a clue what they're watching knows the truth.

 

[tictactoe]

Kovalchuk is right handed.

He plays both.. LE and RW,, u right tough he is rh.

 

[deadhead]

I've never said he's playing because of going to ND. I assume most people are kidding when they say that's the reason.

He's playing because the coach can't properly evaluate talent. Vandevelde has been outplayed by plenty of guys, who could all have replaced him and made the team better by doing so, but he's still here. The fact that he hasn't been scratched once this year, while other have been, is all the proof anyone needs. You can make all the excuses you want, but anyone who has a clue what they're watching knows the truth.

Anyone who has a clue without an agenda knows "he wasn't outplayed by plenty of guys" because Luby and Leier didn't outplay him (all were subpar), Gordon was far worse, and there is no one else. Fact is, Weise came up short until he was put on the Couts line, and neither Cousins or Weal belong on the 4th line or the PK. So this "imaginary" player simply doesn't exist.

Alternative facts don't work in hockey or the White House.

Your real complaint is with Holmgren for stripping the system of talent, and Hextall, for failing to mortgage the future to add mediocre depth in the present.

 

[Lotusflower]

I like it, because without Bellemare Laughton pretty much would be the only option at 4C.
The last time Laughton was gifted a roster spot he disappointed. Make him earn it.

And what has Bellemare earned exactly? I would bet cash if you had started Laughton in game 1 of 2016 as 4C he would have outperformed PEB offensively and defensively

As maligned as Laughton has been, unnecessarily I might add, its not difficult to project since PEB has been one of the worst regular forwards in the NHL

 

[Lotusflower]

Reality check, if a player can't force his way into the lineup, you're not going to miss him.
There are always injuries and chances for players to shine, Weal took advantage of his, Leier didn't. Both Weal and Cousins went back to the AHL, worked hard and improved. We'll see if Leier shows that kind of improvement this fall. It really is that simple.

If Laughton isn't the 4th line center next year, it won't be because of PEB, who could always move to forward or the 13th man in the pressbox, it'll be because Laughton doesn't build on his AHL season this year. They know he can give them 20 points as the 4th line center, can he play solid defense and contribute on the PK?

...and 20 points on the 4th line is better than the trash we're sending out now

This old school mentality needs to die. These safe and reliable types are not moving the needle for us by bringing "character" to the bottom six and lower pairings

What they are doing is costing us every time they take a regular shift.

Since these guys (Manning, VDV, PEB, etc) dont have much upside I would rather watch a young guy with upside come in and be allowed to play through his mistakes rather than assign ourselves to mediocrity for the sake of reliability

At this point what more do a Laughton/Leier/Morin/Hagg have to learn in the AHL?

The fact that theyre path to the top level might be blocked or hampered by another guy who brings nothing whatsoever worries me about our organizational philosophy as whole.

I will hold off judgment until camp next year but you have to give these guys run at some point to see what you have.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

You don't slap an A on the chest of an insurance policy.

Peb is very safe from scratches

It's completely valid that signing PEB to that deal and even more so giving him a letter, will block a player the next 2 years

 

[Hiesenberg]

I'm wondering if PEB on the wing of a play driving center might increase his production. He can't carry a line and the wings he's gotten, until Konecny, have been bad for the most part.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Was reading an article by Bill Meltzer. Saw these numbers and was surprised (but thrilled):

Over his last 14 starts, Mason has posted a record of 8-5-1, 2.17 GAA, .924 save percentage, with two shutouts. He will get the start against the Islanders.

If we don't keep this guy and sign someone like Bishop/Darling/Etc. to a big deal...I'll flip.

 

[flyersfan187]

Bellemare should be on the wing. They need to give chances to our young guys or bring in someone like D Moore to be the center for the fourth line and to be on the PK. I hope hope the coach is gone next season though because they do need someone fresh behind the bench. I wish we would have pulled a Montreal and got that coach instead of them but I am sure he would rather have went on that team than the Flyers. Great coaches are hard to come by.

 

[flyersfan187]

Was reading an article by Bill Meltzer. Saw these numbers and was surprised (but thrilled):



If we don't keep this guy and sign someone like Bishop/Darling/Etc. to a big deal...I'll flip.

Mason is inconsistent. The goalie market doesn't seem too well for goalies so hopefully we could get a deal for Bishop on a 3 year or less contract. If not then Mason could very well be coming back next season as well.

 

[Hiesenberg]

Mason is inconsistent. The goalie market doesn't seem too well for goalies so hopefully we could get a deal for Bishop on a 3 year or less contract. If not then Mason could very well be coming back next season as well.

Bishop will be the #1 goalie available out there. I'd be floored if he got less than 5 years at around 5MM a year.

 

[deadhead]

Hextall is not giving any goalie more than 3 years given the young talent we have in the system. In three years, at least one young goalie will make a strong case to start, and hopefully we won't make the same mistake we made with Bob and not allow the kid to work through his growing pains.

 

[Lotusflower]

Let's just go sign Kovalchuk...

Kovy in orange in black has been a wish of mine since like 06

If he were to come back I would love to see us take a shot at him

 

[Flyotes]

Mason spent most, if not all, of his cred this year with me.

 

[NYCFlyer]

I think Mason is going to walk if he can get a decent deal somewhere else. I am not opposed to him being here the next two years but only if Stolarz is brought up and is given at least 20 games. I really don't like how Hakstol used the goalies this year, i think the incredibly poor results this year from both goalies probably isn't some cosmic coincidence. I also have some reservations about Mason as far as being relatively easily wigged out and therefore prone to poor stretches of play. IMO he needs just the right coach/shrink to keep him mentally right and if that can be achieved (big IF) i think Mason can be an excellent goalie capable of delivering a Cup.

 

[NYCFlyer]

Wrong again.

Re-signing Belle to a 1 year deal for 1 million is an insurance policy. Re-signing Belle to a 2 year deal at 1.4 million per AND giving him an A is much, much more.

How is what he said wrong? PEB probably wouldn't do a one year when it is certainly possible as a FA he would get two. PEB isn't great but there is obviously parts of his game/persona that Hextall sees as not only important enough to sign him mid season but for two years. Is Hextall wrong? I can't figure out why some of you are obsessed with the fourth line when not only will it be completely overhauled by the time we are ready to truly contend, but during a Cup run 90% of time the bench is even further shortened.

 

[FlyTimmo]

It would be a mistake to sign a goalie for more than 2 years. Our young goalie prospect/s will grow with our young rookie defenseman.

 

[Tripod]

How is what he said wrong? PEB probably wouldn't do a one year when it is certainly possible as a FA he would get two. PEB isn't great but there is obviously parts of his game/persona that Hextall sees as not only important enough to sign him mid season but for two years. Is Hextall wrong? I can't figure out why some of you are obsessed with the fourth line when not only will it be completely overhauled by the time we are ready to truly contend, but during a Cup run 90% of time the bench is even further shortened.

He s wrong, because signing Belle to a 2 year deal AND giving him an A, was not an insurance policy. It was a clear sign that Hex and Hax view him as a GOOD player who they WANT to play an important part on this team next year. That's NOT an insurance policy.

For me, who gives a **** if he wouldn't sign for 1 year, then let him go. He has shown nothing to earn a 2 year deal where he doubled his cap hit. It was a dumb move. I am 100% confident that Laughton can be a 4th line C who is better on the PK, and produce more.