Flyers' 2017-18 roster discussion, part 2

[bb12]

All Weal's points are coming while playing with skilled players.

You say we need skill and speed, but Raffl is a faster skater than Weal. And he's not below average, he's been a good 3rd liner over a four year period.

big bodies are never a bad thing, raffl doesnt get a lot of pretty goals but he also is not a black hole. Look at a lot of team, plenty of guys light it up due to who they play with, anaheim is a great example. Maroon and before him belseky

 

[bb12]

Fortunately PEB/VDV are terrible PKers so you aren't losing anything there.

Lets be real, he is a terrible hockey player in general, PEB i give a tiny bit more credit to for some reason

 

[deadhead]

But they're not terrible by any objective measure, they're middle of the pack.
The problem on the PK has been primarily any defenseman not named Provorov or Gudas.

 

[Hiesenberg]

But they're not terrible by any objective measure, they're middle of the pack.
The problem on the PK has been primarily any defenseman not named Provorov or Gudas.

Yes they are. They are awful on the PK and provide nothing on 5v5. PEB should have never been resigned. VDV needs to be blackballed in the NHL.

 

[bb12]

But they're not terrible by any objective measure, they're middle of the pack.
The problem on the PK has been primarily any defenseman not named Provorov or Gudas.

There is absolutely no numbers you can possibly provide as to how VDV is anything but terrible. PEB im indifferent to because unlike VDV i have seen him make some good plays on the PK, and he is NO center which can fall on hak

 

[Curufinwe]

But they're not terrible by any objective measure, they're middle of the pack.
The problem on the PK has been primarily any defenseman not named Provorov or Gudas.

The problem with the PK starts at the top where the forwards don't get enough pressure on the points. We've had all sorts of dmen over the past three years, but the constant has been Lappy as coach and VdV and PEB as the main forwards.

I think we could get better results just by breaking up that duo and going PEB with Simmonds and Couturier with VdV.

 

[Hiesenberg]

VDV just skates in a circle providing no pressure or even deflecting passes. It's like he's transparent.

 

[BillDineen]

PEB ~40% faceoffs on the PK this year and last haven't helped either.

 

[bb12]

The problem with the PK starts at the top where the forwards don't get enough pressure on the points. We've had all sorts of dmen over the past three years, but the constant has been Lappy as coach and VdV and PEB as the main forwards.

I think we could get better results just by breaking up that duo and going PEB with Simmonds and Couturier with VdV.

Insert all better options:
G
simmonds
coots
read
raffl
filp
Luyb

Then:
PEB
VDV

 

[Curufinwe]

VDV just skates in a circle providing no pressure or even deflecting passes. It's like he's transparent.

Toews has all those intangibles, but VdV just has an intangible hockey stick.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Weal has a high shooting % because where he's going. How many slam dunks is he scoring. God forbid somebody skates into the crease looking for plays and not skating along the boards like a bunch of primadonnas

Cue on point last night I switched to flyers game and in that instant I saw right handed winger take a weakass wrister from halfboards and I was like wtf Weal, way to give up the puck. Then I saw number 22 and I was like, ohh yeah THAT winger.

 

[Johnk0728]

PEB ~40% faceoffs on the PK this year and last haven't helped either.

PEB is killing the Flyers with his faceoffs on the PK. Will never understand that contract.... He just isn't that good....period.

 

[Alex91]

PEB is killing the Flyers with his faceoffs on the PK. Will never understand that contract.... He just isn't that good....period.

The thing I hate the most is that he prob takes a roster spot from a young player moving forward, esp that 2nd year if coaching is still in love with his heart.

Laughton should be 4C with some combo of Raffl, Weise, Read, Leier. PEB brings down the speed and skill without bring anything else to the table.

 

[Rebels57]

The thing I hate the most is that he prob takes a roster spot from a young player moving forward, esp that 2nd year if coaching is still in love with his heart.

Laughton should be 4C with some combo of Raffl, Weise, Read, Leier. PEB brings down the speed and skill without bring anything else to the table.

If Weal and Lindblom are both in the plans next season, Bellemare absolutely does make it difficult for Laughton to make the team. It makes no sense and I hate it.

 

[TCTC]

I like it, because without Bellemare Laughton pretty much would be the only option at 4C.
The last time Laughton was gifted a roster spot he disappointed. Make him earn it.

 

[deadhead]

Reality check, if a player can't force his way into the lineup, you're not going to miss him.
There are always injuries and chances for players to shine, Weal took advantage of his, Leier didn't. Both Weal and Cousins went back to the AHL, worked hard and improved. We'll see if Leier shows that kind of improvement this fall. It really is that simple.

If Laughton isn't the 4th line center next year, it won't be because of PEB, who could always move to forward or the 13th man in the pressbox, it'll be because Laughton doesn't build on his AHL season this year. They know he can give them 20 points as the 4th line center, can he play solid defense and contribute on the PK?

 

[Flyotes]

Did Ghost force his way into the lineup? Or was it a simple matter that he replaced an injured player and that player's role so he was the guy. Therefore, he was already in the line up "naturally," but his talent "forced" him to stay. There is some equivocation here with the term "force" but it wasn't like he was down in the AHL and he was just so fancy for it the team was bent over a barrel to bring him up.

Case in point: I'm not sure saying Ghost "forced" his way into the lineup is the best term and the team surely would have missed him that year. Team would have sucked even harder.

 

[bb12]

Reality check, if a player can't force his way into the lineup, you're not going to miss him.
There are always injuries and chances for players to shine, Weal took advantage of his, Leier didn't. Both Weal and Cousins went back to the AHL, worked hard and improved. We'll see if Leier shows that kind of improvement this fall. It really is that simple.

If Laughton isn't the 4th line center next year, it won't be because of PEB, who could always move to forward or the 13th man in the pressbox, it'll be because Laughton doesn't build on his AHL season this year. They know he can give them 20 points as the 4th line center, can he play solid defense and contribute on the PK?

I feel like your definition of proving themselves relies on points. Leier is not projected to be a goal scorer, Weal is a goalscorer.

 

[deadhead]

Leier didn't pass the eyeball test either when he came up.

There are two ways to force your way into the lineup:
1) dominate the AHL (or in Lindblom's case, the SHL) so the team feels you're worthy of a long look
2) take advantage of an injury
Either way, you have to show something when you get a chance to play

Ghost never had a shot to "force" his way in, he was injured his first AHL season and got called up due to injury before he showed himself to be a dominant player at the AHL level - but he took advantage of his opportunity.

Right now, is anyone on the Phantoms playing at the same level as Lindblom in Sweden?

 

[Alex91]

Only issue with Leier and Laughton is waivers. I know we say this about every prospect, but I dont want to seem them claimed by someone like the Pens or Rags. We will have a lot of work to do next year if a FW isnt taken in ED (unless its Amac). They should of waited untill LV picked someone before signing Belly.

11-28-93
xx-51-17
10-14-xx
12-78-xx
40,96,22,21,24,58

 

[Johnk0728]

If Weal and Lindblom are both in the plans next season, Bellemare absolutely does make it difficult for Laughton to make the team. It makes no sense and I hate it.

The reason Scott Laughton is in the AHL is because of Scott Laughton. He has had a couple of chances to stick in the NHL. They now have had him play a 4th line/defensive role with the Phantoms as a last ditch chance to salvage the first rounder. Laughton's play could make him stay in the NHL next year. Look at Raffl; he was pure crap this year. Got hurt. Weal comes up and shines. Now Hextall is faced with the decision to sign Weal. If he does; Raffl might be the odd man out and will not be protected in the expansion draft. If Lindblom or any of the other kids play great. Raffl is even in a tougher spot or should be. After the PEB signing; God knows what Hextall and Hakstoll are thinking sometimes with bottom 6 player analysis.

 

[Rebels57]

I like it, because without Bellemare Laughton pretty much would be the only option at 4C.
The last time Laughton was gifted a roster spot he disappointed. Make him earn it.

That's a valid point.

My only concern is that nothing he will do will ever convince Hakstol that he is better than Bellemare; even if he does everything better than Bellemare.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

The reason Scott Laughton is in the AHL is because of Scott Laughton. He has had a couple of chances to stick in the NHL. They now have had him play a 4th line/defensive role with the Phantoms as a last ditch chance to salvage the first rounder. Laughton's play could make him stay in the NHL next year. Look at Raffl; he was pure crap this year. Got hurt. Weal comes up and shines. Now Hextall is faced with the decision to sign Weal. If he does; Raffl might be the odd man out and will not be protected in the expansion draft. If Lindblom or any of the other kids play great. Raffl is even in a tougher spot or should be. After the PEB signing; God knows what Hextall and Hakstoll are thinking sometimes with bottom 6 player analysis.

Laughton has 32 es or shorthanded points in 51 Ahl games this year, which pretty much matches Cousins es play in his final season before making flyers. It looks as if he is capable of producing while in that bottom6 role. Only thing left to see is if his play away from the puck improved enough to be a useful role player. He has 44 games of waiver eligibility left for us to see just that.

 

[deadhead]

PEB is an insurance policy because we don't have enough NHL ready centers in the organization. Nothing very complicated. He'll probably draft a couple centers this year, and might trade a RW for a young center if he can work a deal. But you don't want to go into the draft and offseason having to add someone and overpay.

 

[Adam Warlock]

PEB is an insurance policy because we don't have enough NHL ready centers in the organization. Nothing very complicated. He'll probably draft a couple centers this year, and might trade a RW for a young center if he can work a deal. But you don't want to go into the draft and offseason having to add someone and overpay.

PEB is way more than insurance to these guys. They legitimately see him as a core piece moving forward, and he is a lock in the roster and on the top PK. It doesnt matter how well guys like Laughton, Cousins, Weal, Lindblom, Leier, etc play...they arent playing over PEB. Its very possible they wont play over VDV either...and we all need to prepare for that...as well as Manning playing over the D prospects.

The best case scenario is they are using/rewarding PEBs work ethic as a model for the kids...and will then toss him aside. I really think they believe he is good though.