Florida Panthers beat Toronto Maple leafs 4-1, advance to ECF

[Bartleby]

Guarantee right here right now- they trade them they'll turn into Conn Smythe candidates. It's the way the wind blows.

You may be right. But even if it's true, the mix and the economics don't work.

The TMLs are less than the sum of their parts, it's that simple.

 

[ichbinkanadier]

You may be right. But even if it's true, the mix and the economics don't work.

The TMLs are less than the sum of their parts, it's that simple.

There's a lot of baggage to play in Toronto. The media treats the team like it's a national team and so the players constantly have microphones shoved in their faces asking them about the failure to do this or that. I doubt many people have the character to handle that. Gretzky, Crosby, McDavid, Roenick, Lemieux, Roy....

 

[Nicko999]

I got a lot of shit for not giving the Leafs "enough" credit for beating what was the worst team of the playoffs in Tampa.

Turns out, the 1st round win was more because of the easy opponent than anything.

I warned Leafs fans but all I got were cocky responses.

 

[pb1300]

Then why post your opinion at all if you're not looking for feedback? Do you just like to look at them?

Because I was talking about Matthews, and it already is off topic in thread. And because frankly, I dont feel like it.

 

[Bartleby]

There's a lot of baggage to play in Toronto. The media treats the team like it's a national team and so the players constantly have microphones shoved in their faces asking them about the failure to do this or that. I doubt many people have the character to handle that. Gretzky, Crosby, McDavid, Roenick, Lemieux, Roy....

I'm not sure what your point is here or why you have cited the players you have? The "core four" all signed their big money contracts, and in some cases even held out to do so, knowing what the Toronto market is like. If they can't handle that or perform when the pressure is greatest then they are in the wrong place.

 

[ichbinkanadier]

I'm not sure what your point is here or why you have cited the players you have? The "core four" all signed their big money contracts, and in some cases even held out to do so, knowing what the Toronto market is like. If they can't handle that or perform when the pressure is greatest then they are in the wrong place.

The names are the players who can handle any pressure.

And I agree, they should probably move on. Takes a special breed to tolerate a market like Toronto or Montreal and withstand the pressure.

Guy Lafleur could handle it but I've seen many claims his nerves were shot at many a time

 

[pb1300]

The names are the players who can handle any pressure.

And I agree, they should probably move on. Takes a special breed to tolerate a market like Toronto or Montreal and withstand the pressure.

Guy Lafleur could handle it but I've seen many claims his nerves were shot at many a time

The media does not matter when it comes to playoff hockey. The Leafs didnt lose because of the media pressure, they lost because they did not do what was needed to win. The playoffs are a different beast from the regular season, and their core is just not capable of playing that type of hockey. Its not about Dubas, or the players they put around them, its about their core 4. They need to lead by example, get out of their comfort zone, and do what it takes to win. If they cant do that, which they cant, then the rest doesnt matter.

 

[ichbinkanadier]

The media does not matter when it comes to playoff hockey. The Leafs didnt lose because of the media pressure, they lost because they did not do what was needed to win. The playoffs are a different beast from the regular season, and their core is just not capable of playing that type of hockey. Its not about Dubas, or the players they put around them, its about their core 4. They need to lead by example, get out of their comfort zone, and do what it takes to win. If they cant do that, which they cant, then the rest doesnt matter.

Pressure affects performance. Some players wilt under high expectations, especially in a market where those expectations are thrown in their face constantly

 

[T REX]

I am with you. No victim mentality. Own up and grow. Winners find a way, and losers find excuses. You don't have to win the series to be a winner, just have to fix what's broken and grow from it. Look at the lightning. They got swept in the first round before they won it all. They didn't make excuses, they fixed what was broken and won. The old blackhawks were a beast of a team too. Winners just find a way to win, even after falling flat on their face a few times.

You literally have someone a few posts above excusing the lightnings cup because if going over the cap. More victim hood. Just tip your cap for once. Good post.

 

[Lilou]

You may be right. But even if it's true, the mix and the economics don't work.

The TMLs are less than the sum of their parts, it's that simple.

He is right. When Leaf players get traded, they win cups. Kessel, Bozak, Gunnarrson to name a few. They also aren't hated once they're traded..imagine that. Everyone all of a sudden loves those players.

 

[pb1300]

Pressure affects performance. Some players wilt under high expectations, especially in a market where those expectations are thrown in their face constantly

Fair point, I just do not agree with it too much with that group. They have been through all this before, the up 3-1, to lose the series. The constant first round losses. These are all lessons to take into the following seasons. But they never adapted. They continue to play the way they do, do not make the uncomfortable play, that might be the deciding factor of a game or series.

The Panthers were in a very similar situation the last few seasons. A massive trade brought in a player that the team lacked, and the team fed off that player. Other additions/subtractions also helped, but the players that were here, also learned from playoffs past, and adapted, and committed to playing the style that is needed to win in the playoffs.

And you cant say Dubas hasnt tried to add that type of grit to the team. In the end, the Leafs go as far as their core 4 takes them, and they just do not want to commit to doing what it takes to win in the playoffs.

 

[Bartleby]

The media does not matter when it comes to playoff hockey. The Leafs didnt lose because of the media pressure, they lost because they did not do what was needed to win. The playoffs are a different beast from the regular season, and their core is just not capable of playing that type of hockey. Its not about Dubas, or the players they put around them, its about their core 4. They need to lead by example, get out of their comfort zone, and do what it takes to win. If they cant do that, which they cant, then the rest doesnt matter.

It's all about Dubas. He kept the core four together despite their repeated failures and remained stubborn in his belief that overwhelming offensive firepower, the other aspects of the game being tangential, is the key to winning a Cup.

 

[ichbinkanadier]

Fair point, I just do not agree with it too much with that group. They have been through all this before, the up 3-1, to lose the series. The constant first round losses. These are all lessons to take into the following seasons. But they never adapted. They continue to play the way they do, do not make the uncomfortable play, that might be the deciding factor of a game or series.

The Panthers were in a very similar situation the last few seasons. A massive trade brought in a player that the team lacked, and the team fed off that player. Other additions/subtractions also helped, but the players that were here, also learned from playoffs past, and adapted, and committed to playing the style that is needed to win in the playoffs.

And you cant say Dubas hasnt tried to add that type of grit to the team. In the end, the Leafs go as far as their core 4 takes them, and they just do not want to commit to doing what it takes to win in the playoffs.

Ottawa suffered through it in the early 2000s. They never learned, never adapted. Some players just don't know how to rise to the occasion and there's no viagara for that.

But you're right, sometimes it takes just one player to change the entire team. Jonathan Toews?

"Boys, let me show you how this winning thing is done!"

It's all about Dubas. He kept the core four together despite their repeated failures and remained stubborn in his belief that overwhelming offensive firepower, the other aspects of the game being tangential, is the key to winning a Cup.

What would you have done and when?

Simcere question, not being sarcastic

 

[Bartleby]

What would you have done and when?

Simcere question, not being sarcastic

First and foremost, I would have never signed Tavares. That's the big one. He royally f**ked up and couldn't admit it and couldn't undo it. They didn't need him but they did need consistent goaltending and a true #1D and Dubas left himself without resources to address those deficiencies in a serious way. Furthermore, he let himself get held up by Marner and Nylander, who were both RFAs and should have been forced to take less or sit. It all comes down to Dubas' core belief that if he had all that scoring power then they couldn't be stopped regardless of other weaknesses.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

It amazes me that how a big chunk of the Toronto fan base can be easily pleased.
Changing the core that hasn’t failed to meet expectation year after year?
Nooooo, how can they possibly win that trade.
Looks like many of you guys are satisfied with being a paper tiger

 

[LeafAttack]

It amazes me that how a big chunk of the Toronto fan base can be easily pleased.
Changing the core that hasn’t failed to meet expectation year after year?
Nooooo, how can they possibly win that trade.
Looks like many of you guys are satisfied with being a paper tiger

These are the same fans that were chanting "We want Florida"

 

[ichbinkanadier]

First and foremost, I would have never signed Tavares. That's the big one. He royally f**ked up and couldn't admit it and couldn't undo it. They didn't need him but they did need consistent goaltending and a true #1D and Dubas left himself without resources to address those deficiencies in a serious way. Furthermore, he let himself get held up by Marner and Nylander, who were both RFAs and should have been forced to take less or sit. It all comes down to Dubas' core belief that if he had all that scoring power then they couldn't be stopped regardless of other weaknesses.

Think the Tavares deal was just as much about the local kid captianing the team?

 

[authentic]

I got a lot of shit for not giving the Leafs "enough" credit for beating what was the worst team of the playoffs in Tampa.

Turns out, the 1st round win was more because of the easy opponent than anything.

I warned Leafs fans but all I got were cocky responses.


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Yeah I don't think they were the worst team in the playoffs, and judging Tampa on their regular season record is funny because they played a lot better than their late season stretch indicated which was a shocker to no one.

 

[Bartleby]

Think the Tavares deal was just as much about the local kid captianing the team?

I doubt that but if that was the case then it was an even more egregious error in judgement.

 

[authentic]

It amazes me that how a big chunk of the Toronto fan base can be easily pleased.
Changing the core that hasn’t failed to meet expectation year after year?
Nooooo, how can they possibly win that trade.
Looks like many of you guys are satisfied with being a paper tiger

Sayyys the Canucks fan?

Why didn't Washington get rid of Ovechkin and Backstrom when they were 25 years old?

 

[Rob Brown]

These are the same fans that were chanting "We want Florida"

You mean the like 20 young fans outside the arena?

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Sayyys the Canucks fan?

Why didn't Washington get rid of Ovechkin and Backstrom when they were 25 years old?

Which team I root for is irrelevant
Also Caps had changed alot of core players through out the years
Semin, Green etc

 

[ReddestRum]

I'm hearing this Matthews 14m+ thing in more places than HF.

There's actually a chance that Matthews asks to be the highest paid player in the NHL by a margin of 2m+?? Like, I can't even believe this would be a possibility for an already top heavy team that needs to be taking pay cuts right now since the core wants to stay in place.

 

[ichbinkanadier]

I doubt that but if that was the case then it was an even more egregious error in judgement.

Wouldn't be the first time marketing won out over hockey sense.

I heard the Sens hockey people wanted to pick Pronger but the owners wanted the francophone Daigle for his marketing appeal

 

[authentic]

You mean the like 20 young fans outside the arena?

And some others were chanting they wanted Boston.