GDT: Flightless Snowbirds @ Red Wings 7:30 Fri

[deca guard]

speaking of tanking ive always wondered if instead of deciding lottery odds by a teams record in one season what if a teams record over the previous 2 or 3 seasons decided their odds ?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

speaking of tanking ive always wondered if instead of deciding lottery odds by a teams record in one season what if a teams record over the previous 2 or 3 seasons decided their odds ?

Down Goes Brown: Could the 'Gold Plan' eliminate tanking? - Sportsnet.ca

This is what I have preferred since the first time I heard it proposed.

 

[Winger98]

I still don't know why we're still so concerned with bad teams being bad that we have to try rig the draft to...make it harder for bad teams to get talent to be better? Part of me thinks it's really just to try to drum up interest in it. Make it exciting. You know, like the NBA... .

Just let teams draft where they finish. Poorly run organizations will be poorly run organizations regardless while better run organizations will get better.

 

[Dotter]

Tic tac toe? He had plenty of time to set up for that shot. He actually almost made the save despite practically falling over trying to get back.

He had a good game but that was not a good goal.

Lol.

Prime Hasek isn't even stopping that.

 

[deca guard]

Down Goes Brown: Could the 'Gold Plan' eliminate tanking? - Sportsnet.ca

This is what I have preferred since the first time I heard it proposed.

im not smart enough to summon up a grasp on how exactly that'd turn out so ive no opinion on it . but on other end of the spectrum an adjustment ive always sought is that good teams shouldnt be wrecked by being forced to draft late forever . say after 3 or 4 years of drafting bottom 10 they should get bumped up say 12 positions to give them a better chance at creating a dynasty because a#1 wrecking great teams for good of league is communism . and 2 dynastys are great for a league and i miss them

 

[Pavels Dog]

Wait until after the trade deadline. Mantha and AA will also be back soon-ish. Bernier will get healthy. This team could easily go on a five-game winning streak.

The words "easily" and "winning" don't really belong in the same sentence as the Wings this season. Also it would take more than a 5-game winning streak to move us up from last place.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Down Goes Brown: Could the 'Gold Plan' eliminate tanking? - Sportsnet.ca

This is what I have preferred since the first time I heard it proposed.

I’ve always found the Gold Plan interesting, but I’m curious how it would play out with a team like Detroit and how bad we really are.

There are still 34 games left this season, and that technically means the best the Wings could possibly finish is at 96 points. By the math, we aren’t really all that close to being mathematically eliminated with the 2nd wild card team sitting at 56 points. 40 points, or 20 combined games between us and Columbus (which by the way, who would have thought they’d find themselves in the playoffs) as our “magic number”. Start at a base, 10 Detroit losses and 10 Columbus wins eliminates us. We probably win 2-3 games in a 10 game stretch by our average, Columbus probably loses 5 looking at their win percentage. So you start extending that window from 10 DRW games to actually the 15-20 DRW game window. Which means we probably have like 12-18 games left in the season to accumulate as many points as possible. Which means we probably pick up what? 8 points? Is that even considered a lot of points under the Gold Plan?

The part that concerns me in the article is when it talks about a team that is so bad, that even with an early playoff elimination, the team can’t win games and finishes with a mediocre pick under the Gold Plan. The response is “if you are that bad, we shouldn’t feel obligated to help you.” Which is the exact reason a reverse finish draft concept exists and is the general premise of each of the 4 North American major leagues. Imagine enduring this season for the Gold Plan to potentially determine “you are too bad for the league to help you.” And the Wings are drafting Holloway (no offense to Holloway), instead of being recognized as the worst team in hockey with a severe talent deficiency and getting Lafreniere.

Nobody on this forum can look at the team playing on a nightly basis and come away feeling like the coaching staff and the players are taking an approach of tanking. Yzerman came in, made minimal free agency moves, and the ones he did make were out of necessity and are actually looking pretty good all things considered. Most of his moves are pretty logical and aimed at making the team better in the present and in the coming years. Nemeth, Filppula, Fabbri, Biega all have had a certain level of importance on the team team. Erne, Perlini, Comrie have had minimal impact, but the logic behind the acquisitions still were aimed at improving the team in a non-splashy way. We’ve done the small things to not drastically change the track of our rebuild, but I think we can see that Yzerman hasn’t been passively accepting of being the least talented team, he just avoided the high price, high cost moves without rebuilding the foundation.

The Gold Plan, after watching more than half of this season for this team, scares me quite a bit. Anything that makes me feel as if we could just arbitrarily be screwed and forgotten about is not going to be held in high regard. They need someone to develop a lottery odds system that is weighted on a case by case basis that reflects the discrepancy between teams each year.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I’ve always found the Gold Plan interesting, but I’m curious how it would play out with a team like Detroit and how bad we really are.

There are still 34 games left this season, and that technically means the best the Wings could possibly finish is at 96 points. By the math, we aren’t really all that close to being mathematically eliminated with the 2nd wild card team sitting at 56 points. 40 points, or 20 combined games between us and Columbus (which by the way, who would have thought they’d find themselves in the playoffs) as our “magic number”. Start at a base, 10 Detroit losses and 10 Columbus wins eliminates us. We probably win 2-3 games in a 10 game stretch by our average, Columbus probably loses 5 looking at their win percentage. So you start extending that window from 10 DRW games to actually the 15-20 DRW game window. Which means we probably have like 12-18 games left in the season to accumulate as many points as possible. Which means we probably pick up what? 8 points? Is that even considered a lot of points under the Gold Plan?

The part that concerns me in the article is when it talks about a team that is so bad, that even with an early playoff elimination, the team can’t win games and finishes with a mediocre pick under the Gold Plan. The response is “if you are that bad, we shouldn’t feel obligated to help you.” Which is the exact reason a reverse finish draft concept exists and is the general premise of each of the 4 North American major leagues. Imagine enduring this season for the Gold Plan to potentially determine “you are too bad for the league to help you.” And the Wings are drafting Holloway (no offense to Holloway), instead of being recognized as the worst team in hockey with a severe talent deficiency and getting Lafreniere.

Nobody on this forum can look at the team playing on a nightly basis and come away feeling like the coaching staff and the players are taking an approach of tanking. Yzerman came in, made minimal free agency moves, and the ones he did make were out of necessity and are actually looking pretty good all things considered. Most of his moves are pretty logical and aimed at making the team better in the present and in the coming years. Nemeth, Filppula, Fabbri, Biega all have had a certain level of importance on the team team. Erne, Perlini, Comrie have had minimal impact, but the logic behind the acquisitions still were aimed at improving the team in a non-splashy way. We’ve done the small things to not drastically change the track of our rebuild, but I think we can see that Yzerman hasn’t been passively accepting of being the least talented team, he just avoided the high price, high cost moves without rebuilding the foundation.

The Gold Plan, after watching more than half of this season for this team, scares me quite a bit. Anything that makes me feel as if we could just arbitrarily be screwed and forgotten about is not going to be held in high regard. They need someone to develop a lottery odds system that is weighted on a case by case basis that reflects the discrepancy between teams each year.

There are downsides to it. I think we are the level of bad where we might not get the top pick either. I think it would be hard for a team even as bad as us to sink outside the top 5 given we will have two months of point accumulation versus a lot of other teams. It keeps some of your more ridiculous lottery jumps from happening though like Carolina. It is just the system I would prefer if we aren't just going to go by finish. It eliminates the teams that are barely missing the playoffs from the process. Also if your team is so bad you're eliminated early and cannot take advantage that is on you and you should be trying to fix it. Maybe we are chasing a goaltending solution in this case. I just think it is a little better for competitive balance. It would also allow the players for once to play for the draft pick and be in unison with their fan-base which I think could be interesting and frankly healthier for all of the fans, organization and players.

Apologies to the forum last night I for some reason went with 50 as our games played in my math. Guess I am trying to speed the season up... If we were .500 the rest of the way we would finish with 64 points which still seems a really tall order. But while your math is right think of this. The Ottawa Senators the team closest to us has a maximum point total of 110 to our 96 so a pretty sizable gap there as well. I think we will be eliminated actually in the next month and probably a couple weeks before them and I do expect them to be the second worst team in the league.

My issues with the Gold plan are actually on two fronts.

One is I would actually prefer to do away with the wildcard format. I think you should play in division and I don't care if a strong 5th team in a division is left home. I would like the playoffs to follow the 80s style format where you really win your division to get to the Conference finals or just a semifinal with division champions re-seeding at that point which I would be okay with.

But this gets to my bigger issue in general and it is easier accomplished with the wildcard which I have to admit but still has the trappings of a conference dictating this. At some point you will have a conference imbalance come into play with the Gold System and that part has always been what I cannot overcome even while liking the plan. You could be the second or third worst team in the league and maybe have five teams eliminated in the opposite conference before you and that would seem a little unjust. I don't think it would happen often but I think it would happen. It would happen even more frequently in my non-wildcard system. Though I would point out it would point towards your divisions being filled with behemoth talent and you needing more help but that might cause dramatic pooling of talent in certain divisions, that part I am unsure of.

In saying all that I know this. I am not a fan of the current draft lottery and haven't been long before we were going to be underneath the boot of the system as one of the worst teams in hockey. I at least did prefer the protection of not dropping teams quite as far before, but I would be willing to experiment with the Gold plan. I also think it is the closest thing we can see to relegation excitement while keeping the NA model. It seems a compromise and you would never see the fans cheering for another team in Buffalo again which I think is a part of what spawned the current system which was an over-correction for me.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

The draft didn't need to be fixed. It was idiotic for them to want to change the lottery odds just because one team got a bunch of 1st overall picks, something that is pretty friggin rare.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

The draft didn't need to be fixed. It was idiotic for them to want to change the lottery odds just because one team got a bunch of 1st overall picks, something that is pretty friggin rare.

And if Jersey wins again not even fixed in the current system either...

 

[The Zermanator]

If the Gold Plan were implemented, would be wild seeing a basement team eliminated before the trade deadline actually trying to improve.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The draft didn't need to be fixed. It was idiotic for them to want to change the lottery odds just because one team got a bunch of 1st overall picks, something that is pretty friggin rare.

Putting it mildly, it seems less than ideal to have the worst team having a 50% chance of being bypassed by the other bottom three teams.

 

[Red Stanley]

Other possible solutions to alleviate bottom teams dropping back too far:

1. Make it so only one lottery ticket is allotted to everyone past the bottom 3. That means at least 2 of the bottom 3 teams will get a lottery pick and a bottom 3 team cannot drop below 4th. Odds can be adjusted further to compensate.
2. Make the #1OA pick available only to the bottom most teams in a separate lottery. Can also do this with the other lottery picks making the #2OA available to another range of teams, etc. Extend the lottery to top 10 picks with increasing odds of a bubble team landing one. I think that was one of the reasons for implementing a lottery. It could be something like picks 4-10 are lotto eligible to any team that missed the playoffs.

 

[Gniwder]

His movement is what is starting to bother me. He just doesn't get enough juice when he is pushing around in the net. I don't know if he is carrying a knock. I suspect at his age and the way he carries extra lbs has finally caught up to him. I saw him slow across a lot tonight, I found him to have a little more puck luck tonight which was nice for him. But there was plenty of space and a lot of uh oh moments where he wasn't square to shooters. Hey stopping the puck is his job and he found a way tonight so good on him, but that wasn't a confidence building performance for me, I saw a lot of the issues that have seen him chased this year still there in his game.

I didn't watch the game, but I've noticed the same. Howie's never been fast, but this year he's slower than molasses.

On top of that, he's got terrible positioning, doesn't cover the post, and uses the back side of his hands to cover the puck which is really strange. So there's some mental issues along with the age factor.

But I'm glad to find out he played well, he was the main reason why I skipped the game, I figured another 5 goal loss.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

At this point, they should stop ****ing with the lottery and lottery odds and just go straight reverse draft order like the NFL and MLB. In the NBA, you need the lottery because the effect one player can have is transformative. The Cavaliers were complete garbage, they got LeBron James and they started playing for titles. He left to Miami and they went back to being garbage. He came back home and they played for titles again. He left? And they're back to being ****ing worthless.

There is no equivalent NHL player who did this. The Edmonton Oilers traded away the greatest player in the history of the league and still won the Cup in 1990. The Flyers got Eric Lindros and they got one shellacking in the Finals for their trouble while the Nords/Avs went on to win multiple Cups with those pieces.

With the way the game is growing... you should rely on the market protecting the sanctity of your league. If a team thinks it can weather multiple years of the fans having nothing to root for for a potentially good future, more power to them.