Confirmed with Link: Fleury re-signed (4 years, $23M, $5.75M AAV) #2

[UnrealMachine]

I posted this in the offseason:

Originally Posted by UnrealMachine
-Pct. of teams that make playoffs = 0.533 (16/30)
-Pct. of Zatkoff's games against playoff teams = 0.55 (11/20)
-Zatkoff sv% against playoff teams = 0.925

Just for poops and giggles, do you have the same breakdown for MAF?

Originally Posted by UnrealMachine
-Pct. of teams that make playoffs = 0.533 (16/30)
-Pct. of Fleury's games against playoff teams = 0.50 (32/64)
-Fleury sv% against playoff teams = 0.914

 

[Speaking Moistly]

A 12 team list? Great... that's just awesome. I don't even know how to relate that to other contracts from Shero.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on...rys-contract-and-the-trouble-with-the-goalies

Right off the bat, Adam Gretz hits the nail on the head.

I actually wonder how much durability factored in considering Cam Ward. Anyway, if Fleury could be consistently average I don't think there would be an issues, it's that you never know what he's going to do.

I don't think it's so much treating him like a franchise player as it is keeping their franchise players happy. Crosby loves the guy, Letang loves the guy, Malkin loves the guy, even Mario loves the guy... letting him go cause a lot of issues in a locker room that's already seems rather prone to issues. Basically, they'd rather a moderately priced average goalie and happy stars than a cheaper average goalie and unhappy stars.

Yeah, I'm going to call bs on this line of thought, it stinks of taking blame away from the front office when they make a stupid decision. It's on them when they do that, not the players else. Just like Bylsma's stupidity was on Bylsma and Shero's was on Shero. Blaming ownership and marketability might have some weight but even then. Hell, it might be arguable that Letang is a franchise player at this point. God only knows what those meltdowns do to the fragile room; there's keeping players happy but you have to grow up when it's something this big. They've all always seemed too into and confident in what Fleury is, it's weird and runs deep.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

Fleury has his postseason warts, but has shown in the past that he can be a good goalie and the most recent playoff campaign that he is taking steps towards becoming that guy again. All while being able to play at a level in the regular season that can get the team 35+ wins. Even with this offense I doubt most goalies plucked out of the UFA abyss is going to be able to put up 35 wins.

And we are betting the rest of the prime years of Sid and Malkin on him continuing that path.

 

[Winger for Hire]

And we are betting the rest of the prime years of Sid and Malkin on him continuing that path.

Are we banking the rest of Fleury and Letang's prime on Sid and Geno finding a way to score in the postseason? Everyone has their warts, lot of people just choose to ignore certain ones.

 

[Shwag33]

I don't understand how a lot of people seem to think a back-up level goalie is magically going to be a good starter by just putting a Pens' jersey on and playing a starter's workload. These guys are back-ups for a reason (skill, age, injuries, etc).

Ray Emery (singling him out because his name has been thrown around a ton in these discussions) has been on 1 year deals for roughly the past decade. There's a reason he hasn't beaten out any incumbents for a job and earned a multi-year deal. Signing him and putting him in net for 50+ games isn't going to solve anything.

Fleury has his postseason warts, but has shown in the past that he can be a good goalie and the most recent playoff campaign that he is taking steps towards becoming that guy again. All while being able to play at a level in the regular season that can get the team 35+ wins. Even with this offense I doubt most goalies plucked out of the UFA abyss is going to be able to put up 35 wins.

Because we have a backup goalie that's been masking as our starter for years.

 

[wolffy66]

I don't understand how a lot of people seem to think a back-up level goalie is magically going to be a good starter by just putting a Pens' jersey on and playing a starter's workload. These guys are back-ups for a reason (skill, age, injuries, etc).

Ray Emery (singling him out because his name has been thrown around a ton in these discussions) has been on 1 year deals for roughly the past decade. There's a reason he hasn't beaten out any incumbents for a job and earned a multi-year deal. Signing him and putting him in net for 50+ games isn't going to solve anything.

Fleury has his postseason warts, but has shown in the past that he can be a good goalie and the most recent playoff campaign that he is taking steps towards becoming that guy again. All while being able to play at a level in the regular season that can get the team 35+ wins. Even with this offense I doubt most goalies plucked out of the UFA abyss is going to be able to put up 35 wins.

A goalie would have to be pretty damn bad to not get into the 35 win range on this team, assuming he was getting starts. MAF doesn't stop any more shots than most goalies. Why would some average goalie come in here and all the sudden not perform similar to MAF number wise? Average goaltending on this team equals lots of regular season wins.

 

[cassius]

And again, that isn't an argument for bringing in any other goalie other than Fleury. You can't statistically argue that any mediocre backup would be better than Fleury, because you don't have the stats to say why that mediocre backup would be better than Fleury. Just as the backup could come in and post better numbers, the backup could come in and post worse numbers. Both are not out of the realm of possibility. Remember Johnson in 2012? He managed to make Fleury's disaster look not that bad.

Well Johnson is no longer in the league - for a reason..

Statistically though, Fleury's performance in the post-season has been so putrid that just about any goaltender would be an upgrade. If you want to defend mediocrity, by all means go for it, but I am just bringing the facts to light. He ranked 21 out of 23 goaltenders in terms of post-season Sv%. Let that sink in for a minute..

I could care less about how many regular season wins Fleury racks up. With this roster we have, even a halfway decent goalie would have a lot of success. It's the recurring post-season drop-off that concerns me, which a lot of folks seem to overlook. Why? I have no idea.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I don't understand how a lot of people seem to think a back-up level goalie is magically going to be a good starter by just putting a Pens' jersey on and playing a starter's workload. These guys are back-ups for a reason (skill, age, injuries, etc).

Ray Emery (singling him out because his name has been thrown around a ton in these discussions) has been on 1 year deals for roughly the past decade. There's a reason he hasn't beaten out any incumbents for a job and earned a multi-year deal. Signing him and putting him in net for 50+ games isn't going to solve anything.

Fleury has his postseason warts, but has shown in the past that he can be a good goalie and the most recent playoff campaign that he is taking steps towards becoming that guy again. All while being able to play at a level in the regular season that can get the team 35+ wins. Even with this offense I doubt most goalies plucked out of the UFA abyss is going to be able to put up 35 wins.

You forgot the point when he was run out of the league and had to go to the KHL to learn how to punch out trainers.

I don't know about you, but I'd sure as hell bet my job on Emery getting the job done for the Pens!!!

 

[wolffy66]

Are we banking the rest of Fleury and Letang's prime on Sid and Geno finding a way to score in the postseason? Everyone has their warts, lot of people just choose to ignore certain ones.

Laughable

 

[Winger for Hire]

A goalie would have to be pretty damn bad to not get into the 35 win range on this team, assuming he was getting starts. MAF doesn't stop any more shots than most goalies. Why would some average goalie come in here and all the sudden not perform similar to MAF number wise? Average goaltending on this team equals lots of regular season wins.

That's true... find one on the market. There's not any out there, or any going to be out there. Average goalies that aren't starters on bad teams are back-ups on good teams. There's not just a bunch of average NHL goalies in the unemployment line.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

Are we banking the rest of Fleury and Letang's prime on Sid and Geno finding a way to score in the postseason? Everyone has their warts, lot of people just choose to ignore certain ones.

Yeah, because those are actual franchise players. Those are the kind of guys you bank your future on. Not ****ing Marc-André Fleury.
I can't believe this is actually a question.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Laughable

It's a valid point, no matter how much you laugh at it. Fleury played like everyone wanted him to do last playoffs. Our big guns didn't show up to score goals. Why can't the skaters have the same standards as the goalie?

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

And we are betting the rest of the prime years of Sid and Malkin on him continuing that path.

It's sure as **** a better bet than hoping a career backup like Greiss or journeyman like Ray ****ing Emery will get the job done.

That's not even taking into account how This team has failed to provide their goalies goal-support over the past two years when goal-tending wasn't an issue. Not many people want to admit that TV and MAF were good enough to get this team into the SCF/ECF, had the team in front of them could ****ing score.

 

[wolffy66]

That's true... find one on the market. There's not any out there, or any going to be out there. Average goalies that aren't starters on bad teams are back-ups on good teams. There's not just a bunch of average NHL goalies in the unemployment line.

You might be right, you might be right for this season, you might be right for the off season, you might even be right all of next season. But we don't have to worry about trying to upgrade a merely average(being nice) goaltender for the next 4 years.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Vokun and Fleury were both let down in back-to-back years by lack of scoring... that seems to be a trend. Lets throw out the 2009 and earlier and look at the playoff scoring of Sid and Geno (when they're been healthy enough to play in the playoffs) and I think- I don't have the numbers in front of me- you'll find their offense leave a lot to be desired, any goaltending issues aside.

Do we hate the Sid and Geno extensions because of their postseason struggles?

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

It's sure as **** a better bet than hoping a career backup like Greiss or journeyman like Ray ****ing Emery will get the job done.

That's not even taking into account how This team has failed to provide their goalies goal-support over the past two years when goal-tending wasn't an issue.

But we don't even have to hope that someone like them can get the job done. We can still sign Fleury, after we are reassured that last year wasn't just an accident.
And if it turns out that it was and we do move on to someone else, then we don't have to sign that guy to an unmovable four year contract and thus not wasting the entire rest of their primes. That's the point.

Vokun and Fleury were both let down in back-to-back years by lack of scoring... that seems to be a trend. Lets throw out the 2009 and earlier and look at the playoff scoring of Sid and Geno (when they're been healthy enough to play in the playoffs) and I think- I don't have the numbers in front of me- you'll find their offense leave a lot to be desired, any goaltending issues aside.

So you are actually arguing that we are better off betting our future on Fleury than on Sid and Geno? I can't believe this. Is this bizarro world?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

It's sure as **** a better bet than hoping a career backup like Greiss or journeyman like Ray ****ing Emery will get the job done.

That's not even taking into account how This team has failed to provide their goalies goal-support over the past two years when goal-tending wasn't an issue.

Are you kidding? Our dream goalie is just waiting for us to jettison Fleury and open the door to him . . .



You know you want to . . .

 

[wolffy66]

It's a valid point, no matter how much you laugh at it. Fleury played like everyone wanted him to do last playoffs. Our big guns didn't show up to score goals. Why can't the skaters have the same standards as the goalie?

When discussing average players you don't concern yourself with their "primes". I'm sure that Tanner Glass technically had a "prime" but its not something with which you concern yourself. MAF prime is not noteworthy.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

But we don't even have to hope that someone like them can get the job done. We can still sign Fleury, after we are reassured that last year wasn't just an accident.
And if it turns out that it was and we do move on to someone else, then we don't have to sign that guy to an unmovable four year contract and thus not wasting the entire rest of their primes. That's the point.

Did I miss the announcement of a Greiss trade? No? So we can still play Geriss in the POs if we have to?

We can still sign any mediocre (I mean savior) back-up 1M goalie each off season and still spend less on goalies than many other teams.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

Are you kidding? Our dream goalie is just waiting for us to jettison Fleury and open the door to him . . .

Now you're just purposefully misunderstanding what I'm trying to say.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Goaltending is about the last thing on my mind for this season. JR has a good tandem right now. Let's get some wingers. K thx.

 

[Winger for Hire]

So you are actually arguing that we are better off betting our future on Fleury than on Sid and Geno? I can't believe this. Is this bizarro world?

Not at all, just using the anti-MAF logic against other players and showing how weird it is.

 

[wolffy66]

Vokun and Fleury were both let down in back-to-back years by lack of scoring... that seems to be a trend. Lets throw out the 2009 and earlier and look at the playoff scoring of Sid and Geno (when they're been healthy enough to play in the playoffs) and I think- I don't have the numbers in front of me- you'll find their offense leave a lot to be desired, any goaltending issues aside.

Do we hate the Sid and Geno extensions because of their postseason struggles?

I'm not thrilled with it, but they are generational talents and that should be obvious. I would tend to give hall of fame level talents more of a benefit of the doubt. Their coaches or linemates tho? Most of them have been shown their way out, as it should be.

 

[Riptide]

What? That does nothing to show that the Pens could not sign Halak before CBOing Fleury.

If anything, had management made a serious push for signing Halak (we now see how unlikely that is, CBOing Fleury was never even considered, clearly) it would certainly have delayed the negotiating process, as him and his agent would have had to think about whether to go to Pitt or NYI. I'd hazard a guess and say, chances are we'd win that one.

Except they couldn't. The team isn't going to try and trade for Halak while in the middle of a playoff series. I mean what does that tell MAF - the goalie you're counting on right now to win games?

And by the time the playoffs were over, he'd already been traded. And before Pittsburgh (or any GM) could talk to him, he'd already signed a new contract.

Basically, he was never an option, as NYI acquired his rights and signed him before anyone else could even talk to him.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

Did I miss the announcement of a Greiss trade? No? So we can still play Geriss in the POs if we have to?

We can still sign any mediocre (I mean savior) back-up 1M goalie each off season and still spend less on goalies than many other teams.

What does that have to with the fact that we just needlessly wasted the opportunity to evaluate Fleury's progress and directly went on to tying us to him for four more years?