Confirmed with Link: Flames def. Canucks - 4-3 (OT - Pearson, Horvat, Boeser)

[Fatass]

Hughes 4th last year and is on pace to finish 1st this year in D scoring. Barrie has never even been top 5 in his whole career.

Norris and Green Jacket in the same year.

 

[mossey3535]

PS the last Demko goal was kind of meh.

He seems to follow the pass and gets an ok push... He does jam his skate on the post which kind of discombobulates him and often screws up your coordination. I didn't like how he stretches his lead leg out before pushing but somehow doesn't seal the ice. If he got a better load and gather here he probably gets over in time.

Technique issues like this are very concerning. I keep seeing them. His edges aren't as crisp as last season, and his butterfly drops are sloppy at times. Those are basics that need to be there all the time. Overall it's been a zero in terms of development to my eye this entire season.

From that standpoint I'd play Holtby 2-3 in a row to give Demko lots of practice time.

 

[VanJack]

I'd take our squad over the Flames everyday of the week..I'd take our top 6 over theirs (Monahan is probably in the lower registers of a 1C)...Gio isnt that far off from calling it a day, and they dont have a QH...Goaltending is where they currently have us beat..hands down.

Some posters here are bemoaning that the Canucks dont have a bona fide blue chip D man coming up through the ranks?.waiting in the wings...Does Calgary?..Does Toronto?...Does Winnipeg?...Does Montreal..?..You could possibly make a case for Edmonton (Bouchard, Broberg..?), but I dont know how they're trending.

It's now apparent that Canucks blueline just doesn't stack up in this Canadian division. Edler, Myers, Juolevi and Benn are 'below average' in terms of skating and mobility....and Schmidt is slightly above average at best. The only elite guy is Hughes. They're getting exposed night after night.

So maybe as you assert, other Canadian teams don't have any blue-chipper d-men in the pipeline either. But clearly the current blueliners they're dressing every night are 'far better' than what the Canucks can offer up.

And just as an aside, Rasmus Andersson is the guy the Flames drafted in the second round with the pick Jimbo gifted to them for Sven Baertschi. How would he look on the Canucks blueline right now?.....probably a bit better than Sven who's skating in Utica these days for his $3.2m salary.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Calgary has Andersson AND Valimaki
Toronto has Liljigren AND Sandin
Winnipeg has Heinola AND Samberg
Montreal has Guihle AND Norlinder

so yes, other teams actually do

however, I do agree I’d rather have our stars over Calgary, but I’d sure take their depth over ours.

Andersson and Valimaki were playing in the NHL before QH was even in the league..The other prospects you listed don't strike me as 'blue chip' anymore than Rathbone or Juolevi.

However, a poster mentioned the Habs Romanov..who could be the real deal.

 

[Fatass]

Andersson and Valimaki were playing in the NHL before QH was even in the league..The other prospects you listed don't strike me as 'blue chip' anymore than Rathbone or Juolevi.

However, a poster mentioned the Habs Romanov..who could be the real deal.

Habs picked Romanov right after Benning picked Woo.

 

[geebaan]

Andersson and Valimaki were playing in the NHL before QH was even in the league..The other prospects you listed don't strike me as 'blue chip' anymore than Rathbone or Juolevi.

However, a poster mentioned the Habs Romanov..who could be the real deal.

you don’t think Heinola or Guihle or Liljigren are blue chip? Weren’t they all highly touted first rounders?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

It's now apparent that Canucks blueline just doesn't stack up in this Canadian division. Edler, Myers, Juolevi and Benn are 'below average' in terms of skating and mobility....and Schmidt is slightly above average at best. The only elite guy is Hughes. They're getting exposed night after night.

So maybe as you assert, other Canadian teams don't have any blue-chipper d-men in the pipeline either. But clearly the current blueliners they're dressing every night are 'far better' than what the Canucks can offer up.

And just as an aside, Rasmus Andersson is the guy the Flames drafted in the second round with the pick Jimbo gifted to them for Sven Baertschi. How would he look on the Canucks blueline right now?.....probably a bit better than Sven who's skating in Utica these days for his $3.2m salary.

I guess it depends on if you see the D on how they played in the first 15 games (the whole team was crap)..?..., or the last 4 , where they appear to be righting the ship.?

The problems the Canucks had in the first 15 went far deeper than the D..The top 6 was MIA, and Pettersson was 5th in team scoring..Complete systems failure.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I think its too soon to say this. We've seen Hughes be ok defensively last season when he had a steady partner and he doesn't feel the pressure of the whole D-corp on his shoulder.
To me Hughes' biggest problem this season is that he feels like he have to force some offense because the team is struggling so much to score. If he just simplify his game and pick his spots better like last season, and have a guy like Tanev covering for his occasional mistakes, I definitely think Hughes can be a tier or 2 above Barrie. Swap Hughes and Makar and I think we'll be picking apart Makar's game right now too. Its just a by-product of a young offensive D playing on a crappy team.

He didn't look good defensively last year. To be fair to Hughes, it's not an effort issue like Barrie. If you get him a real partner, and give Hughes a few years to improve, hopefully his defensive game will be better than Barrie's.

Hughes 4th last year and is on pace to finish 1st this year in D scoring. Barrie has never even been top 5 in his whole career.

The comparison was a more talented and dynamic Barrie.

 

[xtra]

Ok so it’s nice to rag on the flames and all but let’s calm down on the hate your growing Gauds and Monhans way.

both have over 80 point seasons in their career which is higher than anyone of our forwards has had. 2 years ago gauds was a 99 point player and is back over a ppg pace this year. let’s not forget that tkachuk is there also.

You could make an argument that the players go:
Petersson
Gauds
Tkachuk
Miller
Boeser/monhan
Etc.

petersson should be the best of the bunch but it’s a heck of a lot closer than peopl want to admit and you could probably move monhan above Miller if Miller acts like a brat for more of the year.

 

[4Twenty]

Andersson, Hanifin, and Valimaki are all u24 and would all be top 4 here. Valimaki is eligible for the Calder.

 

[4Twenty]

The first 15 is a thing again? Just opposite this time.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Hughes having his best series so far. Skating is back, he's breaking up lots of rushes against, before they can get set up. Could very well finish #1 in points on the team, that's Karlsson stuff.

NS reminding me of an old Hamhuis.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

you don’t think Heinola or Guihle or Liljigren are blue chip? Weren’t they all highly touted first rounders?

Dont know too much about Heinola, but Liljegrin was drafted mid 1st round in 2017..So its been 3-4 years with him..What gives..?..It's not like the Leafs D would be that hard to crack?

Wouldnt surprise me if was in a trade package pretty soon.

 

[Hit the post]

Hughes having his best series so far. Skating is back, he's breaking up lots of rushes against, before they can get set up. Could very well finish #1 in points on the team, that's Karlsson stuff.

NS reminding me of an old Hamhuis.

Not sure whether the Canucks would've drafted him had he even been available at our drafting spot (Ray Charles sees better than Ron Delorme) but he was picked 12th & we had the 16th pick). Still, it wasn't like RJ Hamburger was a bust. One of Burke's mistakes being unable to get him under contract.

 

[Vancouver_2010]

Losing in OT is not very good for the tank effort, but nevertheless its never bad to see Bowser score

 

[Fatass]

Dont know too much about Heinola, but Liljegrin was drafted mid 1st round in 2017..So its been 3-4 years with him..What gives..?..It's not like the Leafs D would be that hard to crack?

Wouldnt surprise me if was in a trade package pretty soon.

Toronto media hypes the Leaf prospects. Watching Littlgren play even a few games and it was clear he wasn’t an NHL player. He’s small, slow, and soft.

 

[VanJack]

I guess it depends on if you see the D on how they played in the first 15 games (the whole team was crap)..?..., or the last 4 , where they appear to be righting the ship.?

The problems the Canucks had in the first 15 went far deeper than the D..The top 6 was MIA, and Pettersson was 5th in team scoring..Complete systems failure.

I've heard this assertion before: "the Canucks d-men are bad because of the system they're playing. I have no idea what 'that system' is and they don't appear to understand what it is either.

But just look at the current crop of the Canuck d-men. The forwards in this Canadian Division are young, fast and talented. They get on you in a hurry and force you to make plays before you're comfortable. This Canucks blueline is too SLOW. Slow to react to pressure; slow to coverage; and slow to move the puck. For the most part they've been 'turnover machines' since the start of the season.

I think they were able to survive in the old Pacific Division, where you play a lot of games on bad ice against plodding teams like L.A., Anaheim, San Jose and Arizona. But in this Canadian Division, they're getting exposed night after night.

That's the reason the Canucks should activate Rathbone imo. Will he make 'rookie mistakes'? Sure he will, although none as egregious as Schmidt has made in the last couple of outings.

But what Rathbone does have is superior closing speed, and lateral agility. If the worst comes to the worst, he can actually skate the puck out of trouble like Hughes.

But good luck expecting Green to make this change. He'll go over the cliff with the same plodding group of d-men he plays night after night.

 

[mossey3535]

I've heard this assertion before: "the Canucks d-men are bad because of the system they're playing. I have no idea what 'that system' is and they don't appear to understand what it is either.

But just look at the current crop of the Canuck d-men. The forwards in this Canadian Division are young, fast and talented. They get on you in a hurry and force you to make plays before you're comfortable. This Canucks blueline is too SLOW. Slow to react to pressure; slow to coverage; and slow to move the puck. For the most part they've been 'turnover machines' since the start of the season.

I think they were able to survive in the old Pacific Division, where you play a lot of games on bad ice against plodding teams like L.A., Anaheim, San Jose and Arizona. But in this Canadian Division, they're getting exposed night after night.

That's the reason the Canucks should activate Rathbone imo. Will he make 'rookie mistakes'? Sure he will, although none as egregious as Schmidt has made in the last couple of outings.

But what Rathbone does have is superior closing speed, and lateral agility. If the worst comes to the worst, he can actually skate the puck out of trouble like Hughes.

But good luck expecting Green to make this change. He'll go over the cliff with the same plodding group of d-men he plays night after night.

Veteran d-men on this team have done little to nothing to deserve a get out of jail free card in terms of seeing the pine for a game or two.

Once again we are trying desperately to win but still losing. At some point you have to play Rathbone. To be honest, I don't even think he's going to be that good. But at least you can find out where he is. And it's not like you're taking players who are killing it out of the lineup. The whole defence is playing their various shades of meh and inconsistency.

Also, condensed schedule...maybe you could strategically rest players.....? Naw, better to just bitch about it.

 

[Grumbler]

What a terrible game....Incompetent D chokes away the lead.

Countdown to opening tank thread: 4 games.

 

[I am toxic]

Erik Karlsson was playing 26-27 minutes/game. He wasn't on his team's 3rd pairing at ES getting 70% o-zone starts.

If Quinn Hughes was the runaway ES TOI leader on this team, it's a different discussion.

Also I'd say that while 2011-17 Karlsson was clearly an elite #1 defender, the post-2017 ankle/foot injury Karlsson - while still playing heavy minutes - was never the same player again and really more of a #2 guy who is elite on the PP.

Quinn Hughes is a beast on the PP. However, there is absolutely *nothing* about his usage or performance at ES that would indicate that he's a #1 defender or anything close to it at this point. Right now he is doing the Tyson Barrie/Torey Krug thing - with worse defensive results - and nobody thinks those guys are #1 defenders.

Context - like cap space - matters.

 

[Tact]

Hughes - Schmidt
Edler - Benn
Joulevi- Myers

For next game - thoughts on this?

Anyone know when Hamonic will be back? We should be aiming to get back to what made us successful last season;

Hughes - Schmidt (Tanev)
Edler - Hamonic (Stecher)
Benn (Fantenberg) - Myers

 

[I am toxic]

Hughes was struggling defensively last year, too. People just didn't want to hear about it, and Tanev was covering a lot of issues.

I think Hughes obviously *will be* better than Barrie. Right now? At ES, it's the same type of player.

Who is Tanev partnered with this season in Calgary? I thought they said it was someone like Hannifin, and that last season was he was playing his way out of the league. Now all of a sudden I am hearing Hannifin has revived his game.

"Hannifin has revived his game". Ha. Those of us who watch hockey know that Tanev was always incredibly underrated, had a better shot than he was given credit for, and would have put up more points with more power play time.

Tanev lasted 70 games last season because the dimwits on the Canucks staff finally realized that your key PK D, who also blocks shots like crazy at even strength, should wear more protection.

And at the end of the day, even if it is conceded Hughes is currently a #1, that doesn't change the fact any projection for our team over the next several years indicates that our forward strength is projected to get worse as Miller and Pearson age out (is Miller already done? should he be traded asap before his value bottoms?) to be offset by Hogs and possibly Pods. Our D strength is also projected to get worse as Edler is done, Myers ages out, and Schmidt - who only has 3 points in 19 games! - leaves his prime years behind. And our goaltending is currently sub .900, and one of those two is done.

So in the long game, we have been a bottom feeder for the past half decade, and are no better than a mediocrity purgatory bubble team going forward, courtesy of Weisbrod/Benning, the salary cap, and the gifting of high draft picks to bad teams.

2014-2021

The Lost Years

 

[I am toxic]

I will probably get a lot of hate for this, but he is a more talented and dynamic Tyson Barrie. Will put up a lot of points, but will be on the ice for 70-80+ goals a year at even strength.

He needs a real partner though. A legit 1st pair guy. Someone that can limit the goals on the ice less than the goals he creates. Changing him to wing at even strength, them have him on the point on the power play is also an option.

I actually thought Luke Schenn was a great low-cost partner for Hughes.

If you are going to go with three pairings where you have a top 6D paired with a bottom 6D, that would have been a goof fit.

But how could we ever have gotten Luke Schenn? It's not like those kind of D are just on your roster, and you have to let them walk away for nothi. . . oh . . . oh . . .

 

[I am toxic]

I've heard this assertion before: "the Canucks d-men are bad because of the system they're playing. I have no idea what 'that system' is and they don't appear to understand what it is either.

But just look at the current crop of the Canuck d-men. The forwards in this Canadian Division are young, fast and talented. They get on you in a hurry and force you to make plays before you're comfortable. This Canucks blueline is too SLOW. Slow to react to pressure; slow to coverage; and slow to move the puck. For the most part they've been 'turnover machines' since the start of the season.

I think they were able to survive in the old Pacific Division, where you play a lot of games on bad ice against plodding teams like L.A., Anaheim, San Jose and Arizona. But in this Canadian Division, they're getting exposed night after night.

That's the reason the Canucks should activate Rathbone imo. Will he make 'rookie mistakes'? Sure he will, although none as egregious as Schmidt has made in the last couple of outings.

But what Rathbone does have is superior closing speed, and lateral agility. If the worst comes to the worst, he can actually skate the puck out of trouble like Hughes.

But good luck expecting Green to make this change. He'll go over the cliff with the same plodding group of d-men he plays night after night.

It may be too late to even give Rathbone a fair shake, when did he last play an actual pro game? What has he been doing for the last 11 months?

Green''s put himself into the position where he has to blow his load just to win the next game, damn the consequences of overplaying Edler or ignoring your taxi squad.

Just a terribly managed situation all round, from unaccountable ownership, to incompetent management, to zero integrity media, and not enough people tweeting for Weisbrod and Benning to be gone.

Like they should have been gone a half decade ago, when they proposed to extend Sbisa and give him a raise, and the writing on the wall was engraved with a chisel.

 

[bandwagonesque]

I actually thought Luke Schenn was a great low-cost partner for Hughes.

If you are going to go with three pairings where you have a top 6D paired with a bottom 6D, that would have been a goof fit.

But how could we ever have gotten Luke Schenn? It's not like those kind of D are just on your roster, and you have to let them walk away for nothi. . . oh . . . oh . . .

The Canucks offered Luke Schenn a contract and he chose Tampa.

Luke Schenn opens up about choosing Lightning over Canucks

Sorry for the semantics.

Edit: And the nitpicking. Especially the nitpicking.