Confirmed with Link: Flames def. Canucks - 4-3 (OT - Pearson, Horvat, Boeser)

[Johnny Canucker]

Hughes is definitely not a 'legit #1 D' at this point.

He's currently playing on the 3rd pairing (except when we're chasing a lead in the final 10 minutes of the 3rd period) with a guy who was a healthy scratch last year, getting soft minutes and matchups, and still bleeding goals all over the place.

He's the best PP QB in the NHL but is currently Phil Housley at ES. He's obviously still a very young player and will improve, but this '#1 defender stuff' needs to die for a bit.

whoever is calling QH43 a legit #1 is a huge homer. The kid is a career minus player. Hes going to be a minus -40 this year. He BLEEDS goals by roaming around all over the ice to try to put up points. Hard to be a "1" when you literally cannot defend....as a defensman.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Schmidt flat out has just not been producing enough. 3 points at this point is horrible for what he has put up in the past

combined with shit defending.....we are saddled with his huge contract for the next ....long time. great. Myers v2.0

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Hughes is definitely not a 'legit #1 D' at this point.

He's currently playing on the 3rd pairing (except when we're chasing a lead in the final 10 minutes of the 3rd period) with a guy who was a healthy scratch last year, getting soft minutes and matchups, and still bleeding goals all over the place.

He's the best PP QB in the NHL but is currently Phil Housley at ES. He's obviously still a very young player and will improve, but this '#1 defender stuff' needs to die for a bit.

I will probably get a lot of hate for this, but he is a more talented and dynamic Tyson Barrie. Will put up a lot of points, but will be on the ice for 70-80+ goals a year at even strength.

He needs a real partner though. A legit 1st pair guy. Someone that can limit the goals on the ice less than the goals he creates. Changing him to wing at even strength, them have him on the point on the power play is also an option.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Calgary is not a good team, but they will probably make the playoffs as they have 9 games against Ottawa down the stretch. If they don't make the playoffs with that many games against Ottawa, and Markstrom then they are a bottom 5 team.

 

[canuckking1]

Canucks are having serious trouble scoring 5on5. Not counting Pearson’s end of the powerplay goal the team has 3 5on5 goals over the past 5 games.

 

[tyhee]

Hughes Schmidt
Edler Myers
OJ ?

It hurts to think that the "?" above could=Stecher, Biega or Tanev, right hand defencemen that the Canucks gave up for, in total, one ECHL/AHL tweener.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I'd take our squad over the Flames everyday of the week..I'd take our top 6 over theirs (Monahan is probably in the lower registers of a 1C)...Gio isnt that far off from calling it a day, and they dont have a QH...Goaltending is where they currently have us beat..hands down.

Some posters here are bemoaning that the Canucks dont have a bona fide blue chip D man coming up through the ranks?.waiting in the wings...Does Calgary?..Does Toronto?...Does Winnipeg?...Does Montreal..?..You could possibly make a case for Edmonton (Bouchard, Broberg..?), but I dont know how they're trending.

 

[Fatass]

It hurts to think that the "?" above could=Stecher, Biega or Tanev, right hand defencemen that the Canucks gave up for, in total, one ECHL/AHL tweener.

TAnev with Hughes and Stecher with OJ. We would be so much better.

 

[I am toxic]

Tanev and Myers are the same age....
Giordano and Edler are both declining. Edler has a couple more seasons in him I recon.

The issue is the contracts and lack of prospects coming up to fill the top 4. Canucks would have to sign free agents, which they can't because the Canucks splashed out too much cash already in FA. Or they have to trade one of their young assets for a top 4 RHD. Any trade for a top 4 RHD you are going to be on the losing end of because nobody wants to trade their top 4 RHD.

Canucks are basically hoping that Woo turns into a top 4 D or else they are pretty f***ed.

Just at a glance, Calgary has Valimaki, and they drafted two D before we even had our first pick last year (also a D).

It's sad when it's needed to exaggerate Hughes as a #1D, and double down with false claims strawman of doom and gloom, trying to defend the indefensible mediocrity purgatory that will continue for years, after more than a half decade of being a bottom feeder. Throw in a trade rosters whataboutism and there's the trifecta.

I think wait and see is slightly less disingenuous.

Slightly.

 

[Grape]

This can be fixed by having two right handed shots on the top unit. I realize Gaudette probably doesn't deserve it but we know he was lethal on the powerplay in college, especially down low. I think Miller or Horvat - the two struggling players - should come off the 1st unit and help the 2nd unit.

PP 1
Gaudette - Horvat/Miller - Pettersson
Boeser - Hughes

PP 2
Virtanen - Horvat/Miller - Hoglander
Pearson - Myers

That's a creative idea. It solves half of the problem of that idea by having Gaudette down low, but it would still be hard for Boeser (RHS) to get passes to him, though it's not that big of an issue. My main issue would be that it would be a bit one dimensional with one time options, and make it a bit harder maintain possession given both Brock and EP would be playing their off sides.

I more of a fan of having Boeser on the second unit left side personally. There just seems like there's very little structure with the second unit and Boeser as a one time option will provide that. I'm not a fan of how much we rely on our first unit, but I think that's more of an indicator to how bad our second unit is.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Schmidt flat out has just not been producing enough. 3 points at this point is horrible for what he has put up in the past

I don't understand what those of you saying Schmidt hasn't been good have been expecting. The major criticism doesn't appear to be aimed at his defensive effort which has been good. It's the "3 points". Schmidt has never been a big goal scorer. His forte has been amassing assists. He has been passing the puck to forwards and their goals would produce his assists.

Let's take last night as an example. He was on the ice for 19:54. Most of those shifts were spent with Horvat, Hoglander, Pearson or Pettersson, Boeser, Miller. Neither line scored an ES goal. Pearson and Horvat scored on the PP and Boeser technically scored a SHG with Demko on the bench. Schmidt was not on the ice for any of them. If they don't score on passes from him, his point totals will be low. It's as simple as that.

Nathan is not and never was a D-man known for creating and pushing offense like a Hughes, LeTang, E. Karlsson, etc. If the guys he is on the ice with put one of his passes into a scoring play, he'll rack up points. A huge number of posters in the total number of this season's GDTs have lost their minds over the failure of Petey and Bo to produce 5 on 5. Points would be okay, but playing D is his first requirement.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Hughes is definitely not a 'legit #1 D' at this point.

He's currently playing on the 3rd pairing (except when we're chasing a lead in the final 10 minutes of the 3rd period) with a guy who was a healthy scratch last year, getting soft minutes and matchups, and still bleeding goals all over the place.

He's the best PP QB in the NHL but is currently Phil Housley at ES. He's obviously still a very young player and will improve, but this '#1 defender stuff' needs to die for a bit.

Is it Hughes bleeding goals, or does his poor goal differential have something to do with the teams overall shoddy defensive play and worse goaltending?

It mirrors Erik Karlssons last season in Ottawa..Does this mean that EK wasn't considered a 1D at that point?

 

[MS]

Is it Hughes bleeding goals, or does his poor goal differential have something to do with the teams overall shoddy defensive play and worse goaltending?

It mirrors Erik Karlssons last season in Ottawa..Does this mean that EK wasn't considered a 1D at that point?

Erik Karlsson was playing 26-27 minutes/game. He wasn't on his team's 3rd pairing at ES getting 70% o-zone starts.

If Quinn Hughes was the runaway ES TOI leader on this team, it's a different discussion.

Also I'd say that while 2011-17 Karlsson was clearly an elite #1 defender, the post-2017 ankle/foot injury Karlsson - while still playing heavy minutes - was never the same player again and really more of a #2 guy who is elite on the PP.

Quinn Hughes is a beast on the PP. However, there is absolutely *nothing* about his usage or performance at ES that would indicate that he's a #1 defender or anything close to it at this point. Right now he is doing the Tyson Barrie/Torey Krug thing - with worse defensive results - and nobody thinks those guys are #1 defenders.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

I will probably get a lot of hate for this, but he is a more talented and dynamic Tyson Barrie. Will put up a lot of points, but will be on the ice for 70-80+ goals a year at even strength.

He needs a real partner though. A legit 1st pair guy. Someone that can limit the goals on the ice less than the goals he creates. Changing him to wing at even strength, them have him on the point on the power play is also an option.

I think its too soon to say this. We've seen Hughes be ok defensively last season when he had a steady partner and he doesn't feel the pressure of the whole D-corp on his shoulder.
To me Hughes' biggest problem this season is that he feels like he have to force some offense because the team is struggling so much to score. If he just simplify his game and pick his spots better like last season, and have a guy like Tanev covering for his occasional mistakes, I definitely think Hughes can be a tier or 2 above Barrie. Swap Hughes and Makar and I think we'll be picking apart Makar's game right now too. Its just a by-product of a young offensive D playing on a crappy team.

 

[MS]

I think its too soon to say this. We've seen Hughes be ok defensively last season when he had a steady partner and he doesn't feel the pressure of the whole D-corp on his shoulder.
To me Hughes' biggest problem this season is that he feels like he have to force some offense because the team is struggling so much to score. If he just simplify his game and pick his spots better like last season, and have a guy like Tanev covering for his occasional mistakes, I definitely think Hughes can be a tier or 2 above Barrie. Swap Hughes and Makar and I think we'll be picking apart Makar's game right now too. Its just a by-product of a young offensive D playing on a crappy team.

Hughes was struggling defensively last year, too. People just didn't want to hear about it, and Tanev was covering a lot of issues.

I think Hughes obviously *will be* better than Barrie. Right now? At ES, it's the same type of player.

 

[m9]

Is it Hughes bleeding goals, or does his poor goal differential have something to do with the teams overall shoddy defensive play and worse goaltending?

It mirrors Erik Karlssons last season in Ottawa..Does this mean that EK wasn't considered a 1D at that point?

I know you watch the games, so what do you think? I think it's pretty obvious watching games that Hughes is part of the problem defensively. And sure there are other factors that aren't his fault, but that doesn't absolve him of his own poor defensive play.

 

[geebaan]

I'd take our squad over the Flames everyday of the week..I'd take our top 6 over theirs (Monahan is probably in the lower registers of a 1C)...Gio isnt that far off from calling it a day, and they dont have a QH...Goaltending is where they currently have us beat..hands down.

Some posters here are bemoaning that the Canucks dont have a bona fide blue chip D man coming up through the ranks?.waiting in the wings...Does Calgary?..Does Toronto?...Does Winnipeg?...Does Montreal..?..You could possibly make a case for Edmonton (Bouchard, Broberg..?), but I dont know how they're trending.

Calgary has Andersson AND Valimaki
Toronto has Liljigren AND Sandin
Winnipeg has Heinola AND Samberg
Montreal has Guihle AND Norlinder

so yes, other teams actually do

however, I do agree I’d rather have our stars over Calgary, but I’d sure take their depth over ours.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Hughes was struggling defensively last year, too. People just didn't want to hear about it, and Tanev was covering a lot of issues.

I think Hughes obviously *will be* better than Barrie. Right now? At ES, it's the same type of player.

Yea right now Hughes is definitely bleeding goals, but I think that is circumstantial. I feel like he was ok defensively last year, at least to the eye-test. I didn't look into his advance stats but I'm confident that he has the potential to be at least average defensively, we just need to build a better support system for him.
To be honest, for a 19-20 years old small offensive defenseman on a tire fire of a team, I think he is doing ok. We should never have put so much pressure on him to begin with. He is trying to make the best of a crappy situation.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Calgary has Andersson AND Valimaki
Toronto has Liljigren AND Sandin
Winnipeg has Heinola AND Samberg
Montreal has Guihle AND Norlinder

so yes, other teams actually do

however, I do agree I’d rather have our stars over Calgary, but I’d sure take their depth over ours.

Montreal also have Romanov, who may have the highest upside of all the D you listed.

 

[geebaan]

Montreal also have Romanov, who may have the highest upside of all the D you listed.

i somehow forgot about him lol

 

[mossey3535]

I said it in the GDT but if you swapped Monahan/Gaudette for EP/Boeser, the Flames would be a championship contender entering their window.

You could also swap out Tkachuk for a variety of players for argument's sake but I think I'm right.

Calgary is an example of the complementary pieces that this team SHOULD have been building around our young core. I just don't think Monahan/Gaudette are high end enough to build around.

 

[m9]

I like the Tyson Barrie comp for Hughes, as long as we are talking peak Barrie who is putting up 55-60 pts a year. I do think Hughes' creativity with the puck is probably a bit higher though which gives him a slightly higher points ceiling.

I don't even consider that an insult, that type of guy is pretty much exactly what this organization has been looking for over the last two decades. If he can clean up his ES play then he will have a higher projection.

Management (whoever it is) really needs to take a long look at finding a long-term partner for Hughes, though. It's pretty sad that in Year 2 he is cycling through guys like Chatfield and Benn.

 

[mossey3535]

I still think QH is a #1. Only being -10 last year with Tanev is an indication of how good he can be even this early in his career.

Barrie just flat out doesn't try to play defence for large portions of games. I don't think that's a fair comparison.

I understand the TOI/usage argument but I think you can counter that with poor defensive structure of the team overall and Green's general quirks in terms of deployment.

 

[canuckking1]

Hughes 4th last year and is on pace to finish 1st this year in D scoring. Barrie has never even been top 5 in his whole career.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Hughes 4th last year and is on pace to finish 1st this year in D scoring. Barrie has never even been top 5 in his whole career.

Not to mention breaking the NHL record for rookie scoring in the playoffs.