Confirmed Trade: [FLA/OTT] Vladimir Tarasenko (50% retained) for 2025 3rd round pick and 2024 4th round pick

[bert]

I’m not arguing anything. I just think it’s hilarious you were immediately wrong again about the value of Sens players

You certainly are. You are saying Tarasenko as a player has less value than Mantha. Or you wouldnt be arguing. What was unavailable at the time of the evaluation was that he would only waive to play for one team. That doesnt make him a worse player or less valuable player than Mantha. A hard concept to wrap your head around.

I'll also stick by Tkachuk having more trade value than Kyrou. But hey if you think otherwise its just another shining example of how lost you are in evaluating hockey players.

 

[CDN24]

Or, neither one blinks and you lose the 3rd and the 4th.

You assume. You hope. You don't know if he will or not.


"Cutting nose to spite face" picture goes here.

Or, maybe Staios read the market and the cards in his hand and decided this was as good as he was getting, and something > nothing.

And, again, you run the risk that Florida decides to go shop elsewhere and you end up with nothing.

But, I've shown those other GMs I'm not going to get bent over, that'll teach them!


Does it, though? It's "easier" in the same way baseball teams talking to Scott Boras or football teams talking to Drew Rosenhaus find it "easier." They know going in, the ask is going to be astronomical and the agent is going to withhold the player if the demand isn't met. Great for the agent when it happens, but it causes a lot of teams to steer clear because they don't want the headache.

Let's say every time Hughes hits it's a home run. How many strikeouts are there along the way? How many other GMs, when they go shopping, look at him and say "you know what, I have a need and I could fill it by talking to him but holy f*** that's going to be a real PITA, I'm not spending weeks on that, I can fill it just as easily somewhere else for less, without the drawn-out process?" Great to pat yourself on the back and say "I'm winning every trade, and I'm winning them big," not so great when you miss other opportunities to improve your organization along the way and don't build goodwill with others that lays the foundation for you to win trades later on.

But, if winning trades is the be-all, end-all, ... I say go for it. What's the worst that can happen?

It's not about hitting a home run, its avoiding the dreaded 5-4-3 double play. Staios' hands were tied by the NTC, he was not going to hit a home run on this one but personally I don't think he did enough to maximize is return. He could have applied some pressure to Tank and to Fla but he didn't.

It's about finding a balance and Hughes so far as done that, he has set his price and got the return. Didn't like what was available for petry at the deadline- waited until the summer. Got what he wanted for Chiarot/Toffoli/Kulak/ Monahan. Has also built goodwill by honoring Petrys trade request, and when he had the opportunity to be a broker for Pens Sharks did it and reassured Petry that he got his return from The Pens already and will trade you wherever you want to go. I will not drag it out to maximize return. He didn't, shipped him to Det where he wanted. He has been nothing but fair with his players.

 

[bert]

Did you not understand the concept of a NMC before the trade?

You made a bad take, just own it instead of getting defensive.

I do, what I didnt know was that he was only willing to go to one team. Did you know that? A bad take is saying that Tarasenko is better than Mantha? If so Ill take 'bad takes' all day long.

 

[Menzinger]

Sens management was definitely in a bit of a bind with this deal considering the restrictions, but given the fact that there's retention involved, this deal definitely sticks out like a bit of a sore thumb compared to some of the other deals that have happened today

 

[Regal]

Damn, Tarasenko isn’t what he was but you gotta get him for that price if you can. Sucks for Ottawa he only had one destination, but I guess they still get assets for most of a year of salary. Florida was already my pick to come out of the East again. Getting more scoring depth only helps

 

[Chardo]

It's not uncommon for athletes -- or any other person who works on a contract basis -- to leave family behind and visit them as they can. Uprooting kids constantly to new schools is definitely not something you want to do, if you can avoid it. The guy signed a one year contract, not an eight year contract.

I'm just wondering why they haven't been living in St. Louis.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

It's not about hitting a home run, its avoiding the dreaded 5-4-3 double play. Staios' hands were tied by the NTC, he was not going to hit a home run on this one but personally I don't think he did enough to maximize is return. He could have applied some pressure to Tank and to Fla but he didn't.

Or ... and hear me out, because I've only said this a few times now ... he knew Tarasenko was never waiving for anyone else no matter how much pressure he exerted, and Florida said "this is our offer, take it or we're walking" and he decided something > nothing, instead of "f*** you all, I'm holding out for X" and ending up with nothing.

You keep saying "he could/should have applied pressure" but you don't explain how you know that would have worked. You also don't explain how you know that he didn't already do that. Which is ... really odd, when you offer up a defense of Hughes with:

Didn't like what was available for petry at the deadline- waited until the summer. Got what he wanted for Chiarot/Toffoli/Kulak/ Monahan. Has also built goodwill by honoring Petrys trade request, and when he had the opportunity to be a broker for Pens Sharks did it and reassured Petry that he got his return from The Pens already and will trade you wherever you want to go. I will not drag it out to maximize return. He didn't, shipped him to Det where he wanted. He has been nothing but fair with his players.

Maybe - and again, hear me out, this may sound really weird - Staios was trying to be nothing but fair with his players, too, and "f*** you all, I'm holding out for X" had a real risk of showing everyone "I don't give a f*** about being fair with any of you."

I know this is all crazy talk, but the circles representing "gets the price he wants, period" and "always does right for his players" aren't two overlapping circles. One of them is giving to the other, unless you're taking some Pollyanna view of how the business of hockey works re: trades and player interactions; saying Staios should have held out until the bitter end for everything possible or settled for nothing and saying Staios should have squeezed Tarasenko and/or Florida by the balls to get them to concede underscores that beautifully.

 

[SI90]

Best deal of the day for a buyer. FLA is getting away with murder here lol

 

[OmniSens]

Bad, yet understandable return for the Sens... Hope Vladdy comes back in the Summer.

Best deal of the day for a buyer. FLA is getting away with murder here lol

Not really, lol. You do understand he had a full no move clause, right?

 

[jellybeans]

So there's a big change that either of those picks will play a game in the nhl for a top 6 player terrible trade for Ottawa.

 

[Two4Fighting]

They might not have the same HoF level talent as the Lightning did (although maybe they do lol), but they're probably as close to the Lightning cup teams that there is.

I just can't! You are doing too much Bro!

 

[Idiot Stick]

suffering through years of terrible GMs in this franchise thank you jesus for Zito

 

[behemolari]

you have to remember often teams are acquiring certain players so their rivals wont

Said everyone about the Bruins last year

and what happened to the ruins again..

 

[CDN24]

Or ... and hear me out, because I've only said this a few times now ... he knew Tarasenko was never waiving for anyone else no matter how much pressure he exerted, and Florida said "this is our offer, take it or we're walking" and he decided something > nothing, instead of "f*** you all, I'm holding out for X" and ending up with nothing.

You keep saying "he could/should have applied pressure" but you don't explain how you know that would have worked. You also don't explain how you know that he didn't already do that. Which is ... really odd, when you offer up a defense of Hughes with:


Maybe - and again, hear me out, this may sound really weird - Staios was trying to be nothing but fair with his players, too, and "f*** you all, I'm holding out for X" had a real risk of showing everyone "I don't give a f*** about being fair with any of you."

I know this is all crazy talk, but the circles representing "gets the price he wants, period" and "always does right for his players" aren't two overlapping circles. One of them is giving to the other, unless you're taking some Pollyanna view of how the business of hockey works re: trades and player interactions; saying Staios should have held out until the bitter end for everything possible or settled for nothing and saying Staios should have squeezed Tarasenko and/or Florida by the balls to get them to concede underscores that beautifully.

We don't know if Tarasenko or FLA would blink but sometimes you have to pay the price of admission to find out. FLA seemed to be playing off Tarasenko against Patches. At this point they probably prefer TANK. MY point is he should have used the extra 2 days he had. Somehow I suspect Tank did not want to stay here and someone blinks- maybe they don't but you need to take a risk to find out.

IF Staios had given him the NTC< I get honoring something verbal. But I don't think playing hardball with a 1 yr player with a NTC that you did not give hurts Ottawa as UFA destination. Maybe being perceived as more of the same as the old regime hurts you more.

My point is given how little he got, why not gamble a little, at least wait until another contender in the East adds something so FLA feels a bit more pressure to act.

 

[pth2]

The idea that if GM fixes his price, it's something everyone should just accept and pay up without question, is ... also fascinating.


That's ... exactly what's being argued here: one side says "this is exactly what I want," the other side has to take it or leave it, no negotiation involved.


Cool. Good for Winnipeg. Not everyone is Winnipeg. Not to mention, look, someone's gonna have him, it could be you - and you can beat everyone else to him, for this low low price of __________ is the same kind of logic used to sucker people into spending money on [incredibly] low-probability events.

You seem to be reading too much into this - Kent Hughes seems to have a price in mind, and discusses with GMs to figure out what works. There's no reason to think he's going to insist on a specific package as a "take it or leave it" ultimatum. That would be kind of silly, really.

Being clear on price and willing to deal, even ahead of time (like they did with Monahan, or with Toffoli 2 years ago), just seems like sound business sense.

 

[pth2]

We don't know if Tarasenko or FLA would blink but sometimes you have to pay the price of admission to find out. FLA seemed to be playing off Tarasenko against Patches. At this point they probably prefer TANK. MY point is he should have used the extra 2 days he had. Somehow I suspect Tank did not want to stay here and someone blinks- maybe they don't but you need to take a risk to find out.

IF Staios had given him the NTC< I get honoring something verbal. But I don't think playing hardball with a 1 yr player with a NTC that you did not give hurts Ottawa as UFA destination. Maybe being perceived as more of the same as the old regime hurts you more.

My point is given how little he got, why not gamble a little, at least wait until another contender in the East adds something so FLA feels a bit more pressure to act.

Nah.... I think we have to assume that Ottawa had few options, and as a smallish Canadian market, it can't play hardball if they want other UFAs to sign on an interim-type of deal, like Tarasenko and Monahan did last summer. A 3d and a 4th doesn't sound like much, and it's no great return, but it's still a positive return, sending a UFA to a contender he wanted to go to.

Playing hardball has its risks, and it's better to be player-friendly and stay an attractive destination. A retained Jeff Petry could probably have fetched a better return for Montreal, but keeping the player happy and getting things done quickly has value, too.

 

[Tofveve]

 

[Wallet Inspector]

suffering through years of terrible GMs in this franchise thank you jesus for Zito

Can we Sens fans be the next ones out of the string of bad GMs?

 

[NewLife]

This is an enormous steal for Panthers. I don't get it.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

We don't know if Tarasenko or FLA would blink but sometimes you have to pay the price of admission to find out.

So ... you don't know that Staios tried to squeeze them and neither one blinked. Or, that Florida didn't say "look, this is all we're giving, take it or good luck." I mean, I don't know that Florida said that, but I at least recognize Florida could have said that and shopped around the league to find someone else and there was another 48 hours to do so; you're not even conceding that as a possibility. I'm also recognizing it's possible Florida - I know, this is going to sound really, really crazy given prior posts - pulled a Kent Hughes and said "this is the price we're paying, take it or we're moving on" - something that you applaud and tout Hughes for doing because it shows he's not getting pushed around.

[Question on how this works when two GMs go talk trade and both of them are of the I'm not bending, you are mindset omitted. Maybe that will be a summer topic.]

The rest of this is you continuing to rehash this belief that 2 more days would have caused someone to blink and resulted in a better deal - and if it ended up with Ottawa taking a big fat 0, you know what ... this one guy goes for broke it always works [ignoring any times where it doesn't, but we don't hear about those so it never fails], so this guy should do it.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

You seem to be reading too much into this - Kent Hughes seems to have a price in mind, and discusses with GMs to figure out what works.

I'm reading "Kent Hughes goes in, has a price in mind, sticks to it and always gets it - and goddamn it, if it's good enough for Kent Hughes, it should be good enough for Steve Staios." That's ... only what I've had said back to me a few times now.

There's no reason to think he's going to insist on a specific package as a "take it or leave it" ultimatum. That would be kind of silly, really.

Hi, let me introduce you to CDN24. You should explain this concept, see where it gets you.

Being clear on price and willing to deal, even ahead of time (like they did with Monahan, or with Toffoli 2 years ago), just seems like sound business sense.

You can ask for whatever you want. When the market says "here's what we're willing to pay" you demanding more doesn't get you anything more; you can grumble but take the offer, or take nothing and then lose that asset at season's end for nothing.

Apparently, for some, nothing > something "f*** the long-term betterment of the team, I've got principles."

 

[CDN24]

So ... you don't know that Staios tried to squeeze them and neither one blinked. Or, that Florida didn't say "look, this is all we're giving, take it or good luck." I mean, I don't know that Florida said that, but I at least recognize Florida could have said that and shopped around the league to find someone else and there was another 48 hours to do so; you're not even conceding that as a possibility. I'm also recognizing it's possible Florida - I know, this is going to sound really, really crazy given prior posts - pulled a Kent Hughes and said "this is the price we're paying, take it or we're moving on" - something that you applaud and tout Hughes for doing because it shows he's not getting pushed around.

[Question on how this works when two GMs go talk trade and both of them are of the I'm not bending, you are mindset omitted. Maybe that will be a summer topic.]

The rest of this is you continuing to rehash this belief that 2 more days would have caused someone to blink and resulted in a better deal - and if it ended up with Ottawa taking a big fat 0, you know what ... this one guy goes for broke it always works [ignoring any times where it doesn't, but we don't hear about those so it never fails], so this guy should do it.

I don't know if he could have got more. I do know that Staois blinked first and agreed to this trade 2 days before the deadline.

Do you know he couldn't have got more?

He retained 2.5M of salary- that's almost worth the return he got. Tampa just got a 4th for retaining 1.4M of salary.

Going for broke does not always work but he did not have a hell of a lot to lose. a 3rd and a 4th.

Agree to disagree- my point is IMO Staios could have played this better. Is your opinion this is the best he could have done?

One of is right, If I was in Staios shoes I would have paid the price to find out

 

[Kimota]

I did not even remember him being in Ottawa. Has he done anything there?

 

[nbwingsfan]

You certainly are. You are saying Tarasenko as a player has less value than Mantha. Or you wouldnt be arguing. What was unavailable at the time of the evaluation was that he would only waive to play for one team. That doesnt make him a worse player or less valuable player than Mantha. A hard concept to wrap your head around.

I'll also stick by Tkachuk having more trade value than Kyrou. But hey if you think otherwise its just another shining example of how lost you are in evaluating hockey players.

Bro you had Ottawa battling for a playoff spot and like 5 spots higher than the Wings for this season
Just admit you were wrong on a Sens players ability once again and move on.

 

[Miller Time]

Wow... What a low return.

Great addition by Florida, Sens continue to struggle at managing their roster assets effectively