#FIRECHIA

[syz]

I think people are underestimating just how much piss poor goaltending sunk us this year

I think people are underestimating just how much Vezina-caliber goaltending bailed the team out last year.

 

[MessierII]

I think people are underestimating just how much Vezina-caliber goaltending bailed the team out last year.

The margin of error is thin in the league these days. Frankly no teams make the playoffs without very good goaltending.

 

[MaxR11]

Sigh, here is the tragedy. The pure heart drenching tragedy. So here we go, the oil suck for 10 years, forever. but they build up a core of McD, Hall, Nuge, Ebs, Nurse, Klef, Drai.... An amazing core that would win cups no doubt, perhaps be a better dynasty that the Hawks or Pens. In comes Chia...... ohhh, I want team toughness and chemistry, which I can't actually find. Lets trade Hall for a slow, ok, mid range D... Now lets trade Ebs for beans.... also all out picks, gone for Rienhart.

We will never get how good that core could have been together. I think finally next year we will get just a bit as Nuge and McD will light it up, but never get what could have been if idiot Chia doesn't come along.

It really is the ultimate tradegy, suck forever, save up talent, Chia comes in a sends of assets like they were a free cheese platter.

that is NOt an "amazing core" as of now. we know Connor is amazing. that's it. hall was never going to get it here and had usually been a neg presence. ebs is overrated (heck he's getting benched and demoted at the world's now). nuge has still yet to be a great player (he's showing more consistency in being a good player). drai is showing inconsistencies. nurse and klef are still up in the air. yes some of them MAy get it down the road but man you are putting the cart before the horse here saying this might be a better dynasty than the hawks or pens... one that would "no doubt" win cups??? lmao. i think you're just trying to find ways to denigrate chia is all.

you don't wait another 3-5 years, keep that LOSING core together and HOPE things work out. there comes a time when after 6 plus years of assessment you figure out/realize that some of these players while they may have some potential, would simply not work here and then you make a move to IMPROVE the TEAM. trying to bang your head against the wall to patiently wait and HOPE they will finally get it and gel is a disservice to the fans of this team. moves needed to be made and things needed to be changed. Chia made the right moves in ousting both hall and ebs. question his return sure (like i said, those guys were NOT highly sought after tho), but those guys had to be ousted and don't think for a second that those decisions hadn't been brewing for years. it was no snap decision by any means, nor even a decision made after seeing hall for one year. there had been long ongoing assessment by the org.

but i'll tell you what, as bad as 2017-18 was, it was worse here with hall. i 'm glad he and ebs are gone. i was sick of watching them play loser hockey on the ice. the irresponsible plays, stupid decision making at the worst times in games, questionable hockey iq, the lack of showing up at clutch situations, laziness (especially on D side), pouting, moping around the ice, slamming sticks on the boards and yelling profanities, the look of defeat coming off the ice for a change (if you don't think that affects the rest of the team i don't know what to say) etc etc.

 

[MaxR11]

^Lets dismantle some more fiction.

Hall had 50pts in first 52GP before pulling the chute on what was yet another meaningless season. If that represents some kind of terrible season to you you're welcome to that distortion. I don't look at what transpired that season or in Halls tenure here and blame him for it. Its not his fault the org kept prioritizing top picks over team performance.

"Wasn't willing to be coached" lol. It took one dinner with Hynes to have him at the top of his game. Wow, what arduous work for a GM spending all that time with a kid...(sarcasm). To me, as I've stated that's about as plug and play as it gets.

Again Hall exceeded ppg player twice in his career here, now 3 times. Hall was always going to get better as maturing star players tend to do. Hall is one of the most consistent players in the league year to year.


Finally invoking false plurality is your poorest response. Hardly anybody here defends this trade or engages in Hall fictions to try to explain away the trade. Most of those that do (not saying you) have obvious agenda's. But in anycase what patently false agenda am I pushing. All I'm doing is refuting made up narratives that are only poor attempts to explain away what was a terrible trade.

your false agenda and made up narrative is that you think hall was a highly positive impact for the oilers when he was here and using this false pretense to make chia seem worse than he actually is.

i watched all those games hall played that year. his 50pts in 52 games is deceiving. he had maybe a stretch of 7 or so games in dec where he was great but otherwise he was mostly the same old hall.... fortunately collecting some nothing points here and there because he was gifted with ice time, pp time and being saddled with the best offensive players on the team. you just don't understand pts are not everything. one player can have 50pts in 52 games and not really impact the team positively but another can get 44 pts in 55 games and be a HUGE positive influence on the team. it's all context. you have to watch what is actually going on on the ice. believe me, klef and scrivs didn't allude to hall not showing up when it counts for a reason. he picked up the "easy pts" and it fooled some fans into thinking he's better than he actually was. guys who played with him know better.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

This "team" would bend any player and it took 6 seasons for that to occur with Hall and take him to the point where the org futility finally got him to pull the chute in what was another completely pointless closing out of another non playoff season.

In retrospect him staying healthy, prioritizing that, was maybe astute as perhaps he knew the same GM that had traded Seguin, Wheeler, Kessel was going to pull the plug on him too.

continue to make excuses for him

yes, the organization is to blame, but Hall also needs to share in some of that blame

he isn't without fault

 

[shoop]

Hall had 50pts in first 52GP before pulling the chute on what was yet another meaningless season. But in any case what patently false agenda am I pushing.

In retrospect him staying healthy, prioritizing that, was maybe astute as perhaps he knew the same GM that had traded Seguin, Wheeler, Kessel was going to pull the plug on him too.

Pulling the chute =/= the behaviour of a consumate pro. Ever. Prioritizing "staying healthy" because Hall "knew" the GM was going to pull the plug on him =/= the behaviour of a consumate pro.

The agenda you are pushing is that there wasn't a locker room or chemistry component to the trade of Hall because you claim he always behaved as a consummate pro. Then you gave excuses for two examples of Hall clearly not behaving like a consumate pro.

It's pretty easy to make the case when you provide examples that counter your own argument.

 

[Jamin]

Mcdavid, Draisatl, RNH, Eberle, Hall, Klefbom, Nurse, Schultz, 2015 first, 2015 2nd is not a poor core.

The fact we came out of it with only Strome and Larsson is appalling yet people keep defending it for some reason.

Every single dman traded the last 3 summers has cost less then Hall (except Weber but again that's a bad trade too).

 

[Soundwave]

The fantasy belief some have that Larsson is going to have a better season than Hall next year, because this is just going to flip flop back and forth is incredibly silly. That's not how real life sports works. This isn't first grade recess where everyone gets a turn.

Hall is going to be on multiple more All-Star teams for the rest of his career, Larsson is half the player Hall is. Hall is one of the best wingers in the league, Larsson isn't even the best defender on the Oilers.

Even Hall's first "terrible! unimaginable!" year PPG in Jersey is 0.73 ppg ... that's about the same as Nugent Hopkins THIS year, which everyone is falling over themselves to say Nuge had a "fantastic!" season, lol, Hall does that on his down time. The hypocrisy is fairly obvious.

This is just more excuses for a management group gifted Connor McDavid and is too stupid to get the job done. They got massively ripped off in this trade and several other deals as well.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I think people are underestimating just how much piss poor goaltending sunk us this year

Sure has a lot to do with the PP sucking.

 

[shoop]

The fantasy belief some have that Larsson is going to have a better season than Hall next year, because this is just going to flip flop back and forth is incredibly silly. That's not how real life sports works. This isn't first grade recess where everyone gets a turn.

Not sure if you really believe this post, but let me lay out the argument for you.

Year one was a clear win for the Oilers. Hall pouted and had an unquestionably low season. Larsson provided an anchor to the defence and helped lead the Oilers to their best regular season in decades. Clear win for the Oilers.

Year two. Hall had an incredible bounceback year and his best year in the league for sure, also relatively injury free which has been rare for Hall. The Devils scraped into the playoffs. Larsson was injured. He also had to deal with the illness, and then death, of his father. Larsson had an understandably poor year.

Is it reasonable to expect Hall to regress to his career mean both in terms of his level of play and health? Probably. Is it reasonable to believe Larsson will be healthier and improve to his career level of play without having a major personal issue hanging over his head? Yes.

All that doesn't necessarily mean that Larsson will have a better season than Hall next year. It is reasonable to believe that the huge gap in performance between Hall and Larsson we witnessed last season will very likely be smaller, and there is a chance we could see the gap erased altogether. But just a chance.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Mcdavid, Draisatl, RNH, Eberle, Hall, Klefbom, Nurse, Schultz, 2015 first, 2015 2nd is not a poor core.

The fact we came out of it with only Strome and Larsson is appalling yet people keep defending it for some reason.

Every single dman traded the last 3 summers has cost less then Hall (except Weber but again that's a bad trade too).

Absolutely. Nice to see some perspective in the thread. Never even mentioned Schultz but he should be as well as Eberle. If you can't build anything out of a core like that you list then you aren't a good GM.

You know the defend the realm is off the charts when Chia's body of work here is being defended. He has nothing to do with most of the good players we have in the lineup.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Mcdavid, Draisatl, RNH, Eberle, Hall, Klefbom, Nurse, Schultz, 2015 first, 2015 2nd is not a poor core.

The fact we came out of it with only Strome and Larsson is appalling yet people keep defending it for some reason.

Every single dman traded the last 3 summers has cost less then Hall (except Weber but again that's a bad trade too).

poor core? no
winning core? no

RNH, Eberle, Hall and Schultz all had the stench of being "losers" though..especially by fans on his board....now its "oh wait, looking back they were good!"...not they weren't

but please provide a shred of evidence that these guys knew how to win actual hockey games in the NHL...

 

[Jamin]

poor core? no
winning core? no

RNH, Eberle, Hall and Schultz all had the stench of being "losers" though..especially by fans on his board....now its "oh wait, looking back they were good!"...not they weren't

but please provide a shred of evidence that these guys knew how to win actual hockey games in the NHL...

Looking back they were always good, just didn't have any veteran depth or goaltending. When Nikita Nikitin is your number 1 dman and 40 year old khabibulin your goaltender kind of weird to blame it on Hall.

Thats ignoring Mcdavid and Drai's arrival as players, never even got to see the full core play together before it was dismantled

 

[nabob]

Pulling the chute =/= the behaviour of a consumate pro. Ever. Prioritizing "staying healthy" because Hall "knew" the GM was going to pull the plug on him =/= the behaviour of a consumate pro.

The agenda you are pushing is that there wasn't a locker room or chemistry component to the trade of Hall because you claim he always behaved as a consummate pro. Then you gave excuses for two examples of Hall clearly not behaving like a consumate pro.

It's pretty easy to make the case when you provide examples that counter your own argument.

Saying this doesn't make you a Hall hater or Chia lover as much as some would like to label you as such. I don't have a lot of time for players that quit on their team. Some were even making that excuse for Drai this season when he was clearly not engaged for most of the last quarter of the schedule. Not crapping on Drai, love the player, but if he could bring consistent effort a little more often he would be nearly unstoppable.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

poor core? no
winning core? no

RNH, Eberle, Hall and Schultz all had the stench of being "losers" though..especially by fans on his board....now its "oh wait, looking back they were good!"...not they weren't

but please provide a shred of evidence that these guys knew how to win actual hockey games in the NHL...

Those players were fine. It’s the rest of the team that sucked. Just like this year.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Those players were fine. It’s the rest of the team that sucked. Just like this year.

so its the fringe players that were the reason we were bottom 5 every single year?

 

[shoop]

Saying this doesn't make you a Hall hater or Chia lover as much as some would like to label you as such. I don't have a lot of time for players that quit on their team. Some were even making that excuse for Drai this season when he was clearly not engaged for most of the last quarter of the schedule. Not crapping on Drai, love the player, but if he could bring consistent effort a little more often he would be nearly unstoppable.

Thanks.

It really felt like Hall gave up on the team every freaking season. Maybe he played so well this year because the Devils were in an actual playoff chase?

I just got a chuckle out of @Drivesaitl claiming Hall was always a consumate pro. Anyone who followed the team throughout the Hall era knows that is divorced from reality.

Agreed on Drai. I hope that this year was a one off. Hopefully McLellan can have one of those off-season chats that worked wonders with Hall last year.

 

[SK13]

so its the fringe players that were the reason we were bottom 5 every single year?

If by "the fringe players" you mean the other 19 players?

Schultz was bad. He was a young player thrown onto a top pairing because the defenses the Oilers were dressing in that time were some of the worst in NHL history. They did him a massive disservice. The other three were good players surrounded by bad teams. Taylor Hall and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins deserve about as much of the blame for those teams as Connor McDavid deserves for this year: None at all.

 

[nabob]

Thanks.

It really felt like Hall gave up on the team every freaking season. Maybe he played so well this year because the Devils were in an actual playoff chase?

I just got a chuckle out of @Drivesaitl claiming Hall was always a consumate pro. Anyone who followed the team throughout the Hall era knows that is divorced from reality.

Agreed on Drai. I hope that this year was a one off. Hopefully McLellan can have one of those off-season chats that worked wonders with Hall last year.

Not every season, he single hamdedly carried the team to playoff contention the one year and kept us there until he just ran out of gas it looked like. He was amazing that year. MVP like season IMO.

He also completely excused Drai for games where it was obvious he wasn't trying. Some posters just have players that can do no wrong. Hell there's still one poster that claims Eberle was always an above average defensive player and backchecker.

 

[shoop]

Not every season, he single hamdedly carried the team to playoff contention the one year and kept us there until he just ran out of gas it looked like. He was amazing that year. MVP like season IMO.

Was that the strike year with Krueger as coach? That was the best effort Hall gave over a full season in my memory. He basically played a full season between here and OKC, IIRC.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Looking back they were always good, just didn't have any veteran depth or goaltending. When Nikita Nikitin is your number 1 dman and 40 year old khabibulin your goaltender kind of weird to blame it on Hall.

they had talent but weren't good...a good core wins hockey games
a good core would show some sort of progression in terms of winning games

all that old core was able to do was be associated with losing hockey games and finishing bottom 5 every year

Thats ignoring Mcdavid and Drai's arrival as players, never even got to see the full core play together before it was dismantled

its hilarious the people preaching "patience" now were the same people clamoring for change (not you specifically)
people forget how fed up fans were of losing back in 2016

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

If by "the fringe players" you mean the other 19 players?

Schultz was bad. He was a young player thrown onto a top pairing because the defenses the Oilers were dressing in that time were some of the worst in NHL history. They did him a massive disservice. The other three were good players surrounded by bad teams. Taylor Hall and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins deserve about as much of the blame for those teams as Connor McDavid deserves for this year: None at all.

Jultz sucks
Eberle was a soft one-dimensional player and always needed to "dust off" his shots
Hall was always injured and too emotional and reckless..
RNH was weak, soft and not worthy of a #1 selection

at least, that what was said over the years around here

now that core was good and patience was the right approach

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

so its the fringe players that were the reason we were bottom 5 every single year?

I would say that the Barkers, Nikitins and Belangers of the world contributed a fair amount to the failure of our team year after year.

 

[nabob]

Was that the strike year with Krueger as coach? That was the best effort Hall gave over a full season in my memory. He basically played a full season between here and OKC, IIRC.

It may have been all the years of suck just kinda of melted together. Hall's play that one year is the one thing that really stands out though.

I think for all those young guys and possibly even Drai now the give a damns start to go away when they start making the big money.

 

[SK13]

Jultz sucks
Eberle was a soft one-dimensional player and always needed to "dust off" his shots
Hall was always injured and too emotional and reckless..
RNH was weak, soft and not worthy of a #1 selection

at least, that what was said over the years around here

now that core was good and patience was the right approach

I didn't say any of that shit, though. I don't have to answer for the weird snap judgments of SOME of the posters on this board.

Patience wasn't and, IMO, isn't the right approach. But the wrong approach was selling off talent for cents on the dollar. FWIW, I don't hate the Schultz move. The Oilers ruined that and it was best for everyone to move on at that point.