Fire lavy?? Trade rinne more like it

[Bringer of Jollity]

Regular season Rinne averages a shutout approximately every 11 games.

Post-season Rinne has 1 shutout in 39 career playoff games.

Just for comparison, Corey Crawford averages a shutout every ~17 games in the regular season and every 16.4 in the playoffs. Quick every ~11 games in the regular season and every 9 games in the playoffs. Yes, we're dealing with relatively small sample sizes.

He may not be THE problem, but he certainly has not been "elite" when it matters most. That we have to point to a game 5 years ago in a series we lost as an example of him "stealing a game" is pretty telling. And yes, if you have to rely on your goaltender to steal games regularly, you're in trouble. But with such little margin for error in the playoffs, the ability of a goaltender to do just that is often the difference between a Cup and an early exit.

 

[Armourboy]

The one reason I put it more on the team than the goalie is this. I'll take Quick for example, this year the team in front of him wasn't that great and they got dominated. Lundquist, who just like Quick, has dominated some series, didn't this year. Crawford got pulled against us last year.

While you gotta have a goalie that can save your bacon sometimes, you can only ask him to save your bacon so much.

Several of these games in the series without Rinne making stops are blowouts. Game 3 and 4 both could have been worse than they were early on without him making stops.

It's nice to have a goalie steal a game here and there but let's be honest, at a certain point you gotta give him something to steal. It's one thing to score few goals if you are playing really good D and asking him to hold on to a lead. It's another to have your forwards and Dmen playing some pretty horrible D at times and asking him to stop everything.

Teams having lots of zone time and shots and having him stop them all is different then having 6-7 point blank middle of the ice chances, not including break aways and expecting him to steal one.

Yeah Rinne has some flaws and will admit he hasn't been stellar this year, but most of the goals in this series have not been goals where I thought he should of had them.

Yes you ask your big time goalie to make timely saves, but those timely saves can't be coming every time down the ice either.

When you look at this series you basically would have been asking him to win games 3, 4 and 5, 1-0, 1-0, 2-1. That's basically asking you goalie to be perfect for 3 straight games. That's a lot to ask against good competition.

Oh and when you keep taking dumb penalties all night you really are asking for it. Your best PKer is your goalie and the PK has been pretty dang good.

 

[LeafChief]

Preds have really **** the bed and its Poile's fault.

The mess he created at the deadline by not making a move because of Vesey was a joke. Even if Vesey signed, he wasn't going to be a game changer. He needs an NHL summer.

To have career AHLer Cody Bass playing ****ing power play minutes is a joke.

He could have picked up a middle 6 forward with some offensive pedigree for cheap. Instead, he sat on his hands.

 

[Armourboy]

Preds have really **** the bed and its Poile's fault.

The mess he created at the deadline by not making a move because of Vesey was a joke. Even if Vesey signed, he wasn't going to be a game changer. He needs an NHL summer.

To have career AHLer Cody Bass playing ****ing power play minutes is a joke.

He could have picked up a middle 6 forward with some offensive pedigree for cheap. Instead, he sat on his hands.

Hard to argue with.

 

[LeafChief]

Hard to argue with.

Nashville is a likeable team as an Eastern Conference fan with my team out of the playoffs.

They've been solid for years and it sucks to see what's going on there right now.

 

[Armourboy]

Nashville is a likeable team as an Eastern Conference fan with my team out of the playoffs.

They've been solid for years and it sucks to see what's going on there right now.

Even with everything though I still think the difference has been coaching. I'm not really talking about game management, its more in between games that has been the difference and this was mainly between games 2 and 3.

Boudreau basically goes in between game 2 and 3 and tell his team, we've tried winning your way, now we are going to try mine. He tells them to play lock down D hockey and quit the funny stuff. Now they may or may not win, but at least he knows if they do it they have a chance unlike in the first 2.

They do it and dominate game 3. Well after it working it's pretty easy to keep guys committed to it and they keep rolling. People point at Anderson, and he has been solid, but at no point have I thought he stole a game ( which is what they are asking Rinne to do). They have played good defensive hockey, put goals in when they could, and lets face it had a bit of luck.

We've missed wide open nets, put shots into the goalie with wide open nets, played pretty bad D and have let them get in our heads. Yet its Rinne not stealing games? Interesting.

 

[klt2001]

Sorry but we aren't asking Rinne to steal games but to just keep the Preds in games. Giving up 4 or 5 goals is far from stealing games but instead digging the team in such a hole that it is deflating and impossible to get out of. If its a close game the Preds have a better chance to come back and win. That's all that we are asking.

 

[Enoch]

Wait, you're blaming this on Rinne?

I'm not blaming Rinne. I do not think he has bad. I also do not think he has been very good. The timing of his goals against are very very poor. The method of the goals against are flukey, but many times, fluke goals go in because of poor positioning.

Rinne has not been the root or cause of our losses. He has also not been a key component in keeping us competitive. Honestly, I am not a Hutton fan, but I seriously doubt we would have a different series picture with Hutton in net over Rinne this series.

Here is my point: Rinne is paid 7 million a year and was presumed to be a top 3 goaltender in this league. He has not been for quite some time. The Predators need more than an average goaltender to succeed.

Again, I do not think Rinne was the cause for the losses, and I am not describing any of the goals as weak. I am not disagreeing with most of your comments. I was just adding some observations, fwiw.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Sorry but we aren't asking Rinne to steal games but to just keep the Preds in games. Giving up 4 or 5 goals is far from stealing games but instead digging the team in such a hole that it is deflating and impossible to get out of. If its a close game the Preds have a better chance to come back. That's all that we are asking.

Maybe if they didn't give up breakaways or take stupid penalties (both took a one goal game to a two goal game yesterday). Or didn't look completely helpless on the 4 on 4 in game 4 with a little help from Forsberg not bothering to play defense in his own zone. Or if our Norris candidate defenseman bothered to defend the guy creating the screen on our goalie and then not get spun around allowing said Ducks player to be wide open in front of the net to bat in a rebound.

Or have Potato turn the puck over and then act as helpful as a pylon afterwards allowing a 2 on 1, with an easy pass that leads to an open net.

Really, the only goal I'd blame Rinne on in the losses is the first goal in game 4 and maybe the second in game 5.

Just look at the goals objectively, please.

Game 3 goal 1 - Awful turnover by Potato. He stands still. An easy pass side to side pass for an open net (Rinne can't commit to the pass early because Potato didn't take the man with the puck or the other guy.)

Game 3 goal 2 - Ridiculous deflection.

Game 3 goal 3 - Ellis allows Stewart into the slot. Rinne makes the save. Ellis gets himself turned around allowing Stewart to get to the front of the net. Gaustad follows Perron behind the net for some reason. Stewart goes top shelf.

Game 4 goal 1 - This is the one I think he should've had. Basically on his pad, he needs to close it down quicker so Getzlaf can't tap it in.

Game 4 goal 2 - Incredibly lazy defense by Forsberg. The entire team looked awful every time there was 4 on 4.

Game 4 goal 3 - See Josi not taking his man right in front of the net.

Game 4 goal 4 - Josi turns it over. Puck is passed into the slot. Easy goal as long as you don't shoot it right into the middle of the net.

Game 5 goal 1 - The definition of fluke.

Game 5 goal 2 - Maybe Rinne should've had it sealed. Maybe Weber and Fisher should win a 2 on 1 battle against Garbutt behind the net.

Game 5 goal 3 - Breakaway out of the box. Maybe be more aware that the PP is nearing an end and maybe send a guy back to prevent something like that from happening.

Game 5 goal 4 - Two Ducks screening Rinne on the PP. Neither of our Norris candidate defenders even try to move them away to give Rinne a chance to see the puck.

Game 5 goal 5 - Empty net.

What exactly is he supposed to do on most of these? He obviously didn't have a very good regular season but I think a lot of posters are holding that against him in the playoffs right now. Goalies still need some help from their defense and forwards. Rinne is getting almost no help right now, on defense and offense.

 

[klt2001]

Yes it would be nice if Rinne wasn't left out to dry and had better support from his teammates upfront but they aren't giving him that so does that mean he should under perform also because others are too? He is our last defense and we aren't paying him big bucks to just be average. While I don't think Rinne should be expected to stop all the goals he's given up especially w/ the way the team is playing in front of him, still think he shouldn't be letting in 4-5 goals, especially if he is suppose to be an elite goalie.

I'm not asking Rinne to be traded or anything like that just that we aren't having any luck lately w/ him in goal and so maybe try something different and see what happens since it's easier to change a goalie than try to fix several different players' bad plays this late in the playoffs. We may end up w/ the same results or even worse w/ Hutton in but I say give it a shot, especially since we haven't been having any luck lately w/ Rinne in (If we were I would say keep Rinne in). We need to figure something out though cause we only have one more shot to extend this playoffs or it's one and done.

 

[drwpreds]

Nashville is a likeable team as an Eastern Conference fan with my team out of the playoffs.

They've been solid for years and it sucks to see what's going on there right now.

Man, you make it seem like we are a 70 point team that missed the playoffs.

The overreactions on this board are just mind-boggling..

 

[NSH615]

Man, you make it seem like we are a 70 point team that missed the playoffs.

The overreactions on this board are just mind-boggling..

Because good teams blow 2-0 series leads to go down 3-2. This team is not good. It is average.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Because good teams blow 2-0 series leads to go down 3-2. This team is not good. It is average.

St. Louis just blew a 3-1 lead. The President's Trophy winners lost two in a row to Philly and barely snuck out a 1-0 win in game 6.

 

[PredsV82]

I hate the Fire lavy thread. The guy has gotten us into the playoffs both years he has been here. Our problem is our piece of crap goalie. He used to be super consistent all season but blow in the playoffs. Now he isn't even a stud all season let alone playoffs.

Plain and simple: I don't give a s*** who your coach is, if your goalie is a bum letting in 3-5 goals a game in playoffs you won't win. It's such a shame because we have so much talent but no goalie. I'm just sick and tired of being let down by garbage rinne. We are out for sure again because of his garbage goaltending. He has never once stolen is a series and never will. He is a garbage clutch goalie plain and simple and I'm so fed up with every playoffs believing in him. Retire please cuz your so done Pekka.
I hope Hutton plays next.

wow. I don't see a lot of posts that are just flat out wrong from beginning to end but this one is.

If you think Rinne is the problem, you have done as badly as if you had a cancer patient and thought their main problem was the hangnail on their big toe

 

[PredsV82]

St. Louis just blew a 3-1 lead. The President's Trophy winners lost two in a row to Philly and barely snuck out a 1-0 win in game 6.

yeah but in those games the losing teams looked competitive and the games could have gone either way. We have looked like a 70 point team these last three games.

I wouldn't be nearly upset if we had even one of those "we played well enough to win but were unlucky" games in the last 3.

 

[triggrman]

I will say this, Rinne is outplayed in more series than he outplays. He's not going to steal a game, and for 7m he should. Conditions are never perfect, a great goalie can smooth out the mistakes, Rinne cannot.

 

[triggrman]

Let me add, he is not the only problem. For all the love Josi gets, defensively, he has been terrible.

Ribeiro is a joke, I hope he is traded.

Bass isn't better than Watson and Sisson isn't a NHL player. I'm not sure on Arvidsson.

 

[drwpreds]

yeah but in those games the losing teams looked competitive and the games could have gone either way. We have looked like a 70 point team these last three games.

I wouldn't be nearly upset if we had even one of those "we played well enough to win but were unlucky" games in the last 3.

Please- I am not buying this for one second. Plenty on here were griping last year against Chicago when we played them off their butts. Even if we had lost 3 OT games in a row the doom and gloomers would still be out in full force....

 

[RCola88]

Rinne just never steals is a game. Never gets shutout. He is plain and simple not a playoff goalie.
We should have gotten Martin Jones, cam talbot, or aanti raanta. Maybe this offseason Philly would move one of their goalies. I don't know.
I was a little raged up at Pekka last night and still am not happy with him at all. Obviously we are taken stupid penalties and obviously not scoring. Craig smith being out hurts is but should not be an excuse.
This offseason we need to address two things big time imo: get another goalie and get a first line centre to have someone half assed play with Neal and ryjo.

Only untradables we have are ryjo Neal forsberg our top four defense and that's it. B
Trade prospects, picks, whatever.
Would absolutely love if we can get okposo in free agency.

Lavy is not the problem.

The desperation coming from your comments are absurd. This is not a stanley cup winning team. Poile has filled the team with the pieces, and hoping to fill it in with our upcoming prospects. Everyone needs to chill the **** out, and stop taking these expectations so literal. It's expected to want the cup, but with a team that has our type of roster right now, fully believing its the cup or everyone's head is beyond ignorant.

No need to blow this thing up, and I realize our window is coming up, but its not now. No way we compete with the Blues/Hawks/Sharks/Pens/Caps, if we make it out of this series.

This post-season has not been on Pekka at all. He has been left out to dry for a lot of goals, and the other ones are flukey or there is nothing that can be done to stop them.

For the bolded: what?

 

[RCola88]

And after reading the rest of this thread, Im out. The comments that I have seen are.. Just terrible. There's a reason I have been staying away from here this post-season, and I was right.

Not like anyone will miss me anyways, but yeah.

 

[mikemcburn]

Nashville is a likeable team as an Eastern Conference fan with my team out of the playoffs.

Yup.

Though for me, Nash was the only playoff team for me and really, much of my attachment originated from exposure cuz of the Hodgson move and then I really fell for the fans. The Nash fans are awesome, they keep me a Nash fan myself.

Ownership/management I don't have enough background for a qualified opinion. The coaching staff leaves much to be desired frankly. And to be fair, whether it's a "goalie controversy" (see: Canucks, lol) or "lack of forward depth" or "the 4rd d pairing just sucks", Nash has all the quirks of any other team.

But the fans... The fans are swell.

 

[Gh24]

I was about to post my thoughts, but Armourboy and AdmiralsFan24 have said it better than I probably could have, so yeah, take a look at the big picture rather than pour it all on Rinne.

Soft plays in our own end, lousy finishing and a terrible PP are all just as big, if not bigger factors in our losses.

PP is predictable. Mess around with it, let players or team trainers plan it for the sake of surprise element and break the predictability. Just stop banging your head into the wall and take a different approach

 

[Armourboy]

I will say this, Rinne is outplayed in more series than he outplays. He's not going to steal a game, and for 7m he should. Conditions are never perfect, a great goalie can smooth out the mistakes, Rinne cannot.

So if that is the case then the fact LA lost and the Rangers lost is all on two of the best goalies in the league then right? I mean they should of smoothed that out so they could win right?

Like I said, asking a guy to steal a game every now and then is not that crazy of an expectation, but in game 3, 4, and 5 there was no game to steal. When one of your top pairing D men is playing that poorly, its going to be hard to steal anything. When half of your forwards are running around like there hair is on fire because of frustration, and taking moronic penalties, it's going to be hard to steal a game.

Games that can be stolen are 1-0, 2-1 games where your team may not be scoring, or may not have that many chances, but at least they are playing good D and cleaning up the messes. They aren't playing good D, and they sure as hell aren't cleaning up a damn thing, and they aren't putting the puck in the back of the net to make up for it either.

Has Rinne stood on his head? No he hasn't. Has Rinne played well enough that this team should be able to win? You damn right he has.

I'll go back to my first statement. As good as Quick, Hank, and heck even Luongo can be at times, they ain't gonna save a series where the team in front of them is playing like crap, cause if they could they wouldn't be going home.

I'll type it one more time just so it sinks in just what you have asked Rinne to do in the series to close it out. " When you look at this series you basically would have been asking him to win games 3, 4 and 5, 1-0, 1-0, 2-1. That's basically asking your goalie to be perfect for 3 straight games. That's a lot to ask against good competition."

 

[triggrman]

Listen, every team has breakdowns throughout the game, it's the goaliesame job to help erase these mistakes. So you think Rinne is doing that as well as Anderson? I don't. That deflection goal was dumb luck but his slow reaction made it look more difficult. Stopping a breakaway is rare for him, yet we get them stopped constantly.

There is always a breakdown on a goal, so you go ahead tell us it's not Rinne's fault tell us that no goalie could stop those. I keep watching him get outplayed by Darling and Anderson.

 

[Armourboy]

Listen, every team has breakdowns throughout the game, it's the goaliesame job to help erase these mistakes. So you think Rinne is doing that as well as Anderson? I don't. That deflection goal was dumb luck but his slow reaction made it look more difficult. Stopping a breakaway is rare for him, yet we get them stopped constantly.

There is always a breakdown on a goal, so you go ahead tell us it's not Rinne's fault tell us that no goalie could stop those. I keep watching him get outplayed by Darling and Anderson.

It's not Rinne's fault, or at least I should say all of Rinne's fault.

Also I think you are giving both Darling and Anderson way too much credit. Both have played sound positional goalie, neither one stood on their head. You wan't to know the difference in why our guys never score on breakaway's? Cause they either miss the damn net or put it right into the goalies freaking pads.

I bet you can go back and look and the largest bulk of our breakaway's have never asked the goalie to make one heck of a save. Darling, Anderson and whoever else you want to throw out aren't making back breaking save to keep goals out, they are going where they should and we either aren't or didn't make a good shot.

That's not to say every break away or goal that Rinne give's up is some insane shot, but I bet the difficulty level is a hell of alot higher than throwing it into the goalies chest or just flat out missing the net like we do.

Is Rinne playing like a god? Well no, but I hate to tell you Anderson ain't either.

I'll say it one more time and then I'm done. Has Rinne been a stand on your head, stop everything goalie in this series? Nope.