Fire/Don't Fire/Discuss Torts II

Status
Not open for further replies.

cslebn

80 forever
Feb 15, 2012
2,719
1,286
One of the problems I feel I have with our coaching (not just torts) is the lack of gameplan strategy.

When I watch it feels like our team doesn't have a consistent strategy for breakouts or I the neutral zone, more like watching beer league than say Mike Sullivan's penguin.

I think this team could use more structure.
 

koteka

Registered User
Jan 1, 2017
3,932
4,264
Central Ohio
Our biggest problem is getting the the puck out of our own end. It is a bigger problem than the power play. It contributes to our lack of scoring.

Guys don’t seem to be hustling after the puck. They make week passes. They aren’t anticipating receiving passes. We have a great forecheck (at times) so they should be used to practicing against a good forecheck. Yet they seem nonchalant. Milano got completely destroyed at our own blue line line last night.

This isn’t a coaching issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Monstershockey

cslebn

80 forever
Feb 15, 2012
2,719
1,286
Our biggest problem is getting the the puck out of our own end. It is a bigger problem than the power play. It contributes to our lack of scoring.

Guys don’t seem to be hustling after the puck. They make week passes. They aren’t anticipating receiving passes. We have a great forecheck (at times) so they should be used to practicing against a good forecheck. Yet they seem nonchalant. Milano got completely destroyed at our own blue line line last night.

This isn’t a coaching issue.

Bolded something that was awful last game. They couldn't catch a pass at times to save their lives.
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
24,712
29,409
Bolded something that was awful last game. They couldn't catch a pass at times to save their lives.

Yep. I wouldn't have said they were a good passing team to begin with, but with so many guys in slumps some guys don't want the puck. I've seen some "Oh f***" moments when guys realize someone is passing to them.
 

KJ Dangler

Registered User
Oct 21, 2006
8,314
4,971
Columbus
Aside from getting a great pick after this season , we need to get our house in order and CanTorts . There is zero reason that Texier shouldn’t be playing center . Coming off a game where Wennberg actually decided to apply himself , shows you how much better the team can look with a legit #2 center . Also , Bemstrom, Texier, Milano, should be getting 15 minutes per game in ice time . Let Shaw take over , let him do his thing with playing an actual defensive structure . Jarmo needs to become more active . I look at Pittsburgh for example , just in the past year they have acquired Bjugstad, Galchenyuk . Both are off to slow starts , but Galchenyuk would have been a huge upgrade to this team , yet another team in our division makes the necessary moves . We have a huge surplus of defenseman yet we stay pat , with 13 mill in cap space . The positives , Korpi and Merzlikins look to be a very solid Tandem . When you consider the defensive structure in front of them , the goaltending is the least of my concerns on this team . In the last 5 games , which includes the Colorado game , he has a 2.40 Gaa , and .91% . That’s with the defense allowing multiple, odd man rushes , defensive breakdowns , with Torts Safe is Death style in full effect . How about we let our dynamic forwards just play slot more, and quit trying to cheat your defense up all the time to create offense ? Same with the powerplay , let Texier, Bemstrom, Texier, Pld play major minutes on the powerplay .
 

blahblah

Registered User
Nov 24, 2005
21,327
972
oh for G-d's sake can we please just shut the **** up about william ****ing karlsson already

What's great about this is that I was probably the only person that said it would be a mistake to let him go and I don't even have to troll. Others do it for me and I can just sit back and giggle.

It's old news, but we did screw the pooch on that one. Having said that, there weren't a ton of other options at the time so I don't really put too much blame on the front office. I do get mocked around her for my more outlandish ideas, but occasionally this blind squirrel finds that nut. I tend to think we should have more more aggressive in moving other, less conventional, contracts in order to keep him. I don't blame anyone for not agreeing.
 
Last edited:

Monstershockey

Registered User
Sponsor
Dec 31, 2017
2,844
3,135
Aside from getting a great pick after this season , we need to get our house in order and CanTorts . There is zero reason that Texier shouldn’t be playing center . Coming off a game where Wennberg actually decided to apply himself , shows you how much better the team can look with a legit #2 center . Also , Bemstrom, Texier, Milano, should be getting 15 minutes per game in ice time . Let Shaw take over , let him do his thing with playing an actual defensive structure . Jarmo needs to become more active . I look at Pittsburgh for example , just in the past year they have acquired Bjugstad, Galchenyuk . Both are off to slow starts , but Galchenyuk would have been a huge upgrade to this team , yet another team in our division makes the necessary moves . We have a huge surplus of defenseman yet we stay pat , with 13 mill in cap space . The positives , Korpi and Merzlikins look to be a very solid Tandem . When you consider the defensive structure in front of them , the goaltending is the least of my concerns on this team . In the last 5 games , which includes the Colorado game , he has a 2.40 Gaa , and .91% . That’s with the defense allowing multiple, odd man rushes , defensive breakdowns , with Torts Safe is Death style in full effect . How about we let our dynamic forwards just play slot more, and quit trying to cheat your defense up all the time to create offense ? Same with the powerplay , let Texier, Bemstrom, Texier, Pld play major minutes on the powerplay .
:boredom::blah:
 
  • Like
Reactions: mikeyp24

NotWendell

Has also never won the lottery.
Sponsor
Oct 31, 2005
27,053
7,434
Columbus, Ohio
But how sure are you that Texier is a "legit #2 center?" That seems to be quite a leap that's just setting the kid up for frustration.

I still think we need to be patient with the Wennberg situation. He's the guy we want to send to Seattle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fro and Viqsi

Cyclones Rock

Registered User
Jun 12, 2008
10,597
6,523
But how sure are you that Texier is a "legit #2 center?" That seems to be quite a leap that's just setting the kid up for frustration.

I still think we need to be patient with the Wennberg situation. He's the guy we want to send to Seattle.

Why in the world would Seattle take him? After the Vegas success, Ron Francis isn't going to treat the expansion draft like he's the manager of the 74-75 Capitals.

Wennberg shouldn't be on the CBJ roster now let alone when the expansion draft takes place.
 

blahblah

Registered User
Nov 24, 2005
21,327
972
I still think we need to be patient with the Wennberg situation. He's the guy we want to send to Seattle.

Patient was in the rear view mirror a long time ago. I tend to always fall on the side of patience, but no one can fault this franchise for not being patient with Wennberg.

Our center situation is a mess and is no more clear today than it was two seasons ago when I preached patience. Well other than it's even more clear that it's a mess.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MoeBartoli

DarkandStormy

Registered User
Apr 29, 2014
7,092
3,325
614
It's old news, but we did screw the pooch on that one. Having said that, there weren't a ton of other options at the time so I don't really put too much blame on the front office. I do get mocked around her for my more outlandish ideas, but occasionally this blind squirrel finds that nut. I tend to think we should have more more aggressive in moving other, less conventional, contracts in order to keep him. I don't blame anyone for not agreeing.

This is sort of off topic considering the thread is on Torts, but the decision to "protect" Hartnell only to buy him out after the Expansion Draft was monumentally stupid. I know, I know...the Vegas "deal" was in place back in March. If your team doesn't know they're *probably* buying a guy out a few months before it happens, then they have no business being in an NHL front office.

Hartnell was a wasted protection spot, which could have been used on Anderson. And FFS why were they so concerned about "steering" Vegas away from Jack Johnson??
 
  • Like
Reactions: thebus88

Cyclones Rock

Registered User
Jun 12, 2008
10,597
6,523
This is sort of off topic considering the thread is on Torts, but the decision to "protect" Hartnell only to buy him out after the Expansion Draft was monumentally stupid. I know, I know...the Vegas "deal" was in place back in March. If your team doesn't know they're *probably* buying a guy out a few months before it happens, then they have no business being in an NHL front office.

Hartnell was a wasted protection spot, which could have been used on Anderson. And FFS why were they so concerned about "steering" Vegas away from Jack Johnson??

The FO performance surrounding the expansion draft was horrible. All of your points hold true.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thebus88

blahblah

Registered User
Nov 24, 2005
21,327
972
This is sort of off topic considering the thread is on Torts, but the decision to "protect" Hartnell only to buy him out after the Expansion Draft was monumentally stupid.

True enough (wrong thread), but weren't we forced to protect him because of a NMC?
 

DarkandStormy

Registered User
Apr 29, 2014
7,092
3,325
614
True enough (wrong thread), but weren't we forced to protect him because of a NMC?

There was a pre-draft "buyout window" of a week prior to the Expansion Draft in which they could make one (or was it two?) buyout, regardless of NMC status.
 

blahblah

Registered User
Nov 24, 2005
21,327
972
There was a pre-draft "buyout window" of a week prior to the Expansion Draft in which they could make one (or was it two?) buyout, regardless of NMC status.

I'd have to go back and look at the timeline and the rules, but I don't remember anything as grievous as you are painting it. At any rate, enough in this thread.
 

JacketsDavid

Registered User
Jan 11, 2013
2,646
888
Patient was in the rear view mirror a long time ago. I tend to always fall on the side of patience, but no one can fault this franchise for not being patient with Wennberg.

Our center situation is a mess and is no more clear today than it was two seasons ago when I preached patience. Well other than it's even more clear that it's a mess.

Besides the second half of last season have we every had a good center situation?
We've consistently missed a 1C (maybe one year of RyJo, maybe make the case for ESPN or Cassels being serviceable at times). PLD did a admirable job last year but bringing in Duchene probably properly slotted him as 2C.
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
24,712
29,409
This is sort of off topic considering the thread is on Torts, but the decision to "protect" Hartnell only to buy him out after the Expansion Draft was monumentally stupid. I know, I know...the Vegas "deal" was in place back in March. If your team doesn't know they're *probably* buying a guy out a few months before it happens, then they have no business being in an NHL front office.

Hartnell was a wasted protection spot, which could have been used on Anderson. And FFS why were they so concerned about "steering" Vegas away from Jack Johnson??

I think they'd already agreed with Vegas on them taking Karlsson in exchange for taking a 2nd rounder, which explains why the protected list didn't make any sense (it wasn't just Hartnell that seemed weird). I'm not sure of this, but I haven't heard a better theory. If I remember correctly a 2nd rounder was the going rate for Vegas taking a specified player, just like a 1st rounder was Vegas' going rate for taking bad contracts (like Clarkson).
 

MoeBartoli

Checkers-to-Jackets
Jan 12, 2011
14,075
10,294
Getting back to the Fire Torts aspect of the thread, I'm not ready to fire Torts. But don't take that as an endorsement. While I have several problems with him, his TOI allocation and lack of patience with younger players not named Werenski or Dubois is the antithesis of the coaching need for a team that insists on icing the youngest. I would add that his overall TOI allocations which basically give the 4th liners 7-9 minutes per game are poor strategies (Look up other teams not named Edmonton and you'll see their line - with a possible one player exception - getting double digits.)

Since Wennberg came up earlier I'll add this. Counting on him to be the second line center reminds me of a racetrack bettor who cashed regularly on a horse (I'll call home Wenny) who was good as a two year old colt, was injured during the end of his campaign but came back at age three. The bettor continued to pour his faith on him, but tearing up his tickets after every race because of the horses failures. The same happened when the horse raced at age four....more wasted faith and money. And at age five, after a surprising first race win, its back to tearing up tickets - and no sign it'll change. For the trainer, it's time to send him to pasture or at least realize he's a $5000 claimer (e.g. 3rd or 4th liner) - not a stakes horse (top 6).

(I still ask myself why Jarmo didn't try to "claim" Nazem Kadri, the kind of horse Torts loves to ride).
 
  • Like
Reactions: thebus88

cslebn

80 forever
Feb 15, 2012
2,719
1,286
re: the dsicussion of blaming Jarmo or Torts. Try reading the Mains about Babcock and Dubas. Yikes.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,843
31,367
40N 83W (approx)
re: the dsicussion of blaming Jarmo or Torts. Try reading the Mains about Babcock and Dubas. Yikes.
They're at .500; if we win tonight and they don't, we would match or surpass them in points percentage. (Right now they're at 22 games played to our 19.)
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
24,712
29,409
Since Wennberg came up earlier I'll add this. Counting on him to be the second line center reminds me ......

We keep saying he was counted on but I'm sure Wennberg was not counted on to be second line center. He was far behind Jenner in ice time last season and finished the season in the pressbox. Torts spoke of Wennberg getting a brief opportunity. The guy that they expected more from is Texier. He was supposed to step in if/when Wennberg couldn't cut it at 2C, and that just doesn't seem as safe a course at this point as it did last summer.

(I still ask myself why Jarmo didn't try to "claim" Nazem Kadri, the kind of horse Torts loves to ride).

You don't think he tried? Barrie + Kerfoot is a really valuable offer for him, Jarmo could have gone hard for Kadri and still not topped that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thebus88

DarkandStormy

Registered User
Apr 29, 2014
7,092
3,325
614
Since Wennberg came up earlier I'll add this. Counting on him to be the second line center reminds me of a racetrack bettor who cashed regularly on a horse (I'll call home Wenny) who was good as a two year old colt, was injured during the end of his campaign but came back at age three. The bettor continued to pour his faith on him, but tearing up his tickets after every race because of the horses failures. The same happened when the horse raced at age four....more wasted faith and money. And at age five, after a surprising first race win, its back to tearing up tickets - and no sign it'll change. For the trainer, it's time to send him to pasture or at least realize he's a $5000 claimer (e.g. 3rd or 4th liner) - not a stakes horse (top 6).

Guess who leads the team in PP TOI?
Guess who is tops among centers in TOI (and 2nd among forwards behind Cam Atkinson)?
Guess who is getting career-high TOI despite being on pace for 26 points this season?

The answer to all these questions is the same.

Now, it's not the coach's fault that the GM basically left him one center and a bunch of tweeners and/or bottom 6 and/or AHLers for the rest of this center lineup. Still, that doesn't mean the coach should be giving that kind of ice time to a guy who seems disinterested in facilitating the offensive plays necessary to score goals. FFS, try Texier at center. Try Nash and Jenner in the middle 6 spots. Put Milano in Wennberg's spot on the PP.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thebus88

MoeBartoli

Checkers-to-Jackets
Jan 12, 2011
14,075
10,294
You don't think he tried? Barrie + Kerfoot is a really valuable offer for him, Jarmo could have gone hard for Kadri and still not topped that.
So valuable Barrie wants out and most Leafs fans think that’d be just fine. :D

While I’m sure Torts wasn’t counting on Wennberg, Jarmo was still willing to wager on him.....as were some on this Board. And as Stormy cites, Torts keeps betting on him by giving him 2C - heck, sometimes 1C - ice time.

Im with CR, Bus and D&S on Wennberg.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thebus88
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad