Fire(d) Fletcher

[tucson83]

I don't have a problem with a culture change but it's quite clear he hitched his horse to AV who didn't like Ghost or Jake. He clearly downgraded on both players and paid through the nose doing it.

Chuckles gave up half of our top 6 assets the next 3 drafts and we still don't know if G or Couts are going to resign. Those 2 2mds could be top 40 picks on top of the ridiculous 8 year extension Rasmus is going to get.

it's called accountability, are you saying all these playoff coaches kiss up to players and let them play the way ghost and jake plays? dont think so, most of these coaches dont kiss butt, they put these players in their places and play the way they want to play them. they are very hard nosed coaches, that's how they win. if you want a kiss butt coach then you are looking at buffalo territory because those coaches in buffalo have no spine.

 

[Embiid]

While I don't disagree that something had to be done with the team bc clearly that locker room didn't give two craps about winning and were softer than the snuggles bear....Fletcher is the worst GM to be executing a plan to make this team a legit contender. All I see with him is Holmgren 2.0. He is a defibrillator GM. What he has done is typical Holmgren like GMing where it's all about short term and just making the playoffs and getting Comcast some revenue from a round or 2 of playoffs. We will then flatline again. It is just so deflating as a fan to be constantly toyed with.

 

[Beef Invictus]

it's called accountability, are you saying all these playoff coaches kiss up to players and let them play the way ghost and jake plays? dont think so, most of these coaches dont kiss butt, they put these players in their places and play the way they want to play them. they are very hard nosed coaches, that's how they win. if you want a kiss butt coach then you are looking at buffalo territory because those coaches in buffalo have no spine.

Actually coaches who are flexible win. Smooth brained assholes like MT who try to force players to play against their strengths and then blame the players for their own dumbass mistake lose.

AV is nothing more than a sad loser who has been handed great rosters in the past and needed to be carried by his goalies. He doesn't have a great roster, he doesn't have an elite goalie, and now he's been exposed as the fraud he's long been. He gets the least out of this team. Good coaches use a roster to it's strengths and get the most out of it.

 

[deadhead]

AV has never had a great roster.
Vancouver had the Sedin brothers, what else?
The team he took over in 2006:
Sedin (26), Sedin (26), Morrison (31), Naslund (33), Kesler (22), Cooke (28), Bulis (28), Pyatt (25), Linden (36), Burrows (25), Green (29)
Ohlund (30), Bieksa (25), Mitchell (29), Salo (32), Krajicek (23), Fitzpatrick (32)
Luongo (27)
4 top 6 forwards, with Morrison near the cliff and Kesler a year away from emerging, one top D-man in Ohlund.

Four years later, 117 points and SC Finals:
Kesler (26), Sedin (30), Sedin (30), Burrows (29) Samuelson (34), Malhotra (30), Raymond (25), Hansen (24), Torres (29), Tambelllini (26), Glass (27)
Edler (24), Erhoff (28), Hamhuis (28), Bieksa (29), Rome (27), Ballard (28)
Luongo (31), Schneider (24)
4 top 6 forwards, but a decent top 4 defense (though no elite D-man)

The Ranger team he inherited from Torts and took to the SC Finals:
Richards (33), St Louis (38), Stepan (23), Zuccarello (26), Nash (29), Brassard (26), Kreider (22), Hagelin (25), Pouliot (27), Boyle (29), Moore (33), Dorsett (27)
McDonagh (24), Girardi (29), Staal (27), Stralman (27), Moore (23), Klein (29), MDZ (23)
Lundqvist (31)

Two years later (last decent Ranger team):
Stepan (26), Zuccarello (29), Nash (32), Zibanejad (23), Hayes (24), Kreider (25), JT Miller (23), Fast (25), Vesey (23), Grabner (29), Buchnevich (21), Lindberg (25)
McDonagh (27), Girardi (32), Smith (27), Holden (29), Skjei (22), Staal (30)

 

[dats81]

It's easy to hate on Vigneault, Therrien and Yeo but those 3 were all Jack Adams finalists in the past and AV won that useless piece of metal.
I'd rather give Chuck Fletcher the benefit of the doubt for holding on his coaching staff than watching Ron Hextall pulling a rabbit named Dave Hakstol out of his ***.

 

[GKJ]

What’s Flahr done wrong?

 

[deadhead]

I think Fletcher knew he was overpaying for Risto, but was between the rock and the hard place.
The FO is pressuring him to win now, after a clusterf--- season.
AV was probably clamoring for a physical D-man.
I doubt Fletcher could have fired AV even if he wanted to, with $15M left on his contract (big hit on a post-COVID budget).

Now Fletcher can say he gave AV the tools to win, there are no COVID excuses, so either AV wins, in which case Fletcher comes out smelling like a rose, or Fletcher can dump AV and bring in a young HC without resistance from above.

 

[Larry44]

They will. Just two or three seasons too late, minimum. Flyers hockey.

The real shame is the next GM won’t have time to win one by the 50th anniversary…. 60 here we come.

 

[mja]

I think Fletcher knew he was overpaying for Risto, but was between the rock and the hard place.
The FO is pressuring him to win now, after a clusterf--- season.
AV was probably clamoring for a physical D-man.
I doubt Fletcher could have fired AV even if he wanted to, with $15M left on his contract (big hit on a post-COVID budget).

Now Fletcher can say he gave AV the tools to win, there are no COVID excuses, so either AV wins, in which case Fletcher comes out smelling like a rose, or Fletcher can dump AV and bring in a young HC without resistance from above.

Apparently, Fletcher has coveted Risto for a few years now. I'm completely open to the possibility that Risto is a better player than what he's shown in Buffalo, but you don't pay a premium for that and Fletch did.

 

[Embiid]

Apparently, Fletcher has coveted Risto for a few years now. I'm completely open to the possibility that Risto is a better player than what he's shown in Buffalo, but you don't pay a premium for that and Fletch did.

If he turns out to be a rental or the next Andrew McDonald contract.....fans should be furious.

 

[deadhead]

Risto is Fletcher's only real overpay.
When you look at what Dillon fetched in two different deals, the payment for Braun was market cost. Dillon played behind Braun in San Jose.
I'll give him a mulligan for this offseason if the team gets back into the playoffs and looks like a top 8 team.
Risto is a gamble, but Ellis is a solid acquisition, as is Atkinson.

Nor did these deals cost a major prospect, Myers is 25, some upside left but some flaws exposed as well, Hagg 26. Ghost is 28 and the league sees him as damaged goods. Twarynski was #25 on the list.
#13 in a bad draft was the major asset, the 2nd rd picks will probably be in the late 40s to mid-50s.

It's not like these moves resulted in an aging team, G (34), Atkinson (32), JVR (32), Braun (34), Ellis (31) are the 5 players over 30.
And the talent pipeline is full. Had they kept #13, that prospect probably wouldn't have cracked the top five on the prospect list.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

What’s Flahr done wrong?

Remember "be fair to Flair" from the early 90s in WWE? Yeah, I'm claiming that for here - be fair to Flahr or give hair to Flahr, whichever one people like

 

[tucson83]

Actually coaches who are flexible win. Smooth brained assholes like MT who try to force players to play against their strengths and then blame the players for their own dumbass mistake lose.

AV is nothing more than a sad loser who has been handed great rosters in the past and needed to be carried by his goalies. He doesn't have a great roster, he doesn't have an elite goalie, and now he's been exposed as the fraud he's long been. He gets the least out of this team. Good coaches use a roster to it's strengths and get the most out of it.

if av gets this team to the playoffs are you still wish failure on him?

 

[Embiid]

If they make it to the playoffs and look and play like true contenders I will gladly eat crow....

 

[Beef Invictus]

if av gets this team to the playoffs are you still wish failure on him?

I don't wish failure on them. I wish they'd have success. AV showed that's not really his thing last time, regardless of what I wish for. I wish he'd done a good job, but he didn't.

Are you able to engage with what people actually say? Or will you stop being a fan if you stop fabricating nonsense.

 

[deadhead]

I'm giving AV a mulligan for last season b/c it was such a clusterf---. Could he have handled it better? Sure. But I don't think any HC could have gotten last year's team into the playoffs with the putrid goaltending and 2/3 of the team coming down with COVID.

Now this year there are no excuses, it's a loaded lineup top to bottom, and Hart should rebound. Only move that has to be made is to upgrade from Elliott at backup goalie.

Voracek is more talented than Atkinson, but I expected both G and Voracek to decline this season, I think JVR will age better than Voracek b/c he accepted the need to change his game as he aged and is playing more like a PF.

I think the young players are ready to emerge, Frost should be physically mature and ready to employ his skill set, a 100% healthy Lindblom is a legitimate top 6 forward, Allison was a revelation in his SSS. Ellis and Risto are a significant upgrade over Ghost and Myers, even if Risto never comes close to justifying his cost. And York on the 3rd pair >> the unholy choice of Gus/Hagg.

It's a nice mix of veterans and young players in their prime years, only 5 players 30 or older, only 3 players under 24 (Farabee, York, Hart).
The team is deep enough to marinate numerous prospects in LHV, the last few years they've had to rush players at 21-22 who really needed a couple full AHL seasons to be NHL ready. Now a player like Millman may get two more years of AHL experience and still be 22 in 2023-24.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'm giving AV a mulligan for last season b/c it was such a clusterf---. Could he have handled it better? Sure. But I don't think any HC could have gotten last year's team into the playoffs with the putrid goaltending and 2/3 of the team coming down with COVID.

Now this year there are no excuses, it's a loaded lineup top to bottom, and Hart should rebound. Only move that has to be made is to upgrade from Elliott at backup goalie.

Voracek is more talented than Atkinson, but I expected both G and Voracek to decline this season, I think JVR will age better than Voracek b/c he accepted the need to change his game as he aged and is playing more like a PF.

I think the young players are ready to emerge, Frost should be physically mature and ready to employ his skill set, a 100% healthy Lindblom is a legitimate top 6 forward, Allison was a revelation in his SSS. Ellis and Risto are a significant upgrade over Ghost and Myers, even if Risto never comes close to justifying his cost. And York on the 3rd pair >> the unholy choice of Gus/Hagg.

It's a nice mix of veterans and young players in their prime years, only 5 players 30 or older, only 3 players under 24 (Farabee, York, Hart).
The team is deep enough to marinate numerous prospects in LHV, the last few years they've had to rush players at 21-22 who really needed a couple full AHL seasons to be NHL ready. Now a player like Millman may get two more years of AHL experience and still be 22 in 2023-24.

You find a reason to give all coaches and staff a mulligan every year

 

[tucson83]

I don't wish failure on them. I wish they'd have success. AV showed that's not really his thing last time, regardless of what I wish for. I wish he'd done a good job, but he didn't.

Are you able to engage with what people actually say? Or will you stop being a fan if you stop fabricating nonsense.

it's one bad year and you cant accept that, you want the front office to just wipe the slate clean because you have no patience as a result you want this team to win a championship overnight, it doesnt work like that. im not expecting a championship next year either because you got to beat tampa which i dont know if anyone can right now and that's not fair. the best thing you can do is keep trying to be competitive and hopefully something breaks.

if you want to just get rid of everything and tank and expect things to work out that way, you might as well just shut the door on competing for championship because buffalo has been bad for 10 years is that what you want?

it took tampa 5 years to get where they are, they didnt fire coaches and gms every year, they stayed the course, they stayed competitive and it finally worked, you got to be patient because it's not easy. if you cant be patient then i dont know what to tell you.

 

[Beef Invictus]

it's one bad year and you cant accept that, you want the front office to just wipe the slate clean because you have no patience as a result you want this team to win a championship overnight, it doesnt work like that. im not expecting a championship next year either because you got to beat tampa which i dont know if anyone can right now and that's not fair. the best thing you can do is keep trying to be competitive and hopefully something breaks.

if you want to just get rid of everything and tank and expect things to work out that way, you might as well just shut the door on competing for championship because buffalo has been bad for 10 years is that what you want?

it took tampa 5 years to get where they are, they didnt fire coaches and gms every year, they stayed the course, they stayed competitive and it finally worked, you got to be patient because it's not easy. if you cant be patient then i dont know what to tell you.

It's not just one bad year. The team has heavily disappointed for a decade, and we're being given more of the same. I accept we had a bad year last year. Can you accept that this rotten franchise has had a bad decade led by mismanagement?

Tampa Bay isn't run like the Flyers. We are more like Carolina before they gutted ownership and management. Would you stop being a fan if we fired upper management? Because that's what it will take.

 

[tucson83]

It's not just one bad year. The team has heavily disappointed for a decade, and we're being given more of the same. I accept we had a bad year last year. Can you accept that this rotten franchise has had a bad decade led by mismanagement?

Tampa Bay isn't run like the Flyers. We are more like Carolina before they gutted ownership and management. Would you stop being a fan if we fired upper management? Because that's what it will take.

im always going to be a fan until im dead.

 

[Beef Invictus]

im always going to be a fan until im dead, will you?

Lol

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It's not just one bad year. The team has heavily disappointed for a decade, and we're being given more of the same. I accept we had a bad year last year. Can you accept that this rotten franchise has had a bad decade led by mismanagement?

Tampa Bay isn't run like the Flyers. We are more like Carolina before they gutted ownership and management. Would you stop being a fan if we fired upper management? Because that's what it will take.

"More of the same"?????

They've shipped out Voracek, Ghost, Myers, and Patrick already, and it's clear they're also bringing in another goalie and a couple of other pieces.

 

[Beef Invictus]

"More of the same"?????

They've shipped out Voracek, Ghost, Myers, and Patrick already, and it's clear they're also bringing in another goalie and a couple of other pieces.

Yes, these moves don't leave me thinking the team is any better overall than they were. The biggest problems remain in their jobs, and we will get nowhere. We've been churning through players, key players, for years. It never changes anything, because those players aren't the problem.

Best case scenario is probably second round exit, because that's the ceiling of any roster built by Fletcher. That's Fletcher's Cup.

 

[Rebels57]

It's easy to hate on Vigneault, Therrien and Yeo but those 3 were all Jack Adams finalists in the past and AV won that useless piece of metal.
I'd rather give Chuck Fletcher the benefit of the doubt for holding on his coaching staff than watching Ron Hextall pulling a rabbit named Dave Hakstol out of his ***.

Being a Jack Adams finalist means absolutely nothing.

 

[FlyerNutter]

"More of the same"?????

They've shipped out Voracek, Ghost, Myers, and Patrick already, and it's clear they're also bringing in another goalie and a couple of other pieces.

They have, but just a question to ponder.

Is there a forward on this club that really scares the other team so to speak?

The over reliance on secondary depth is a self inflicted wound, and they think year after year they will just somehow have all 4 lines outplay the other team.