Post-Game Talk: Fire Campbell

[Zerotonine]

It does not make any difference. You are still on the hook for the duration of his contract. His buyout will be around 1.5M per year.

Yeah well you would have 4 extra years of a cap hit at 1.5 mill of dead cap space with a buy out them 4 years of retention on a trade. Pretty obvious which is the better choice

Would you take him for 3M?

Not after this years performance

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Goalies around the league have been weird this year. Vezina candidates last year look one baby step ahead of Campbell.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

Yup, but this wasn't that game.

Also not sure if anyone is aware, but the play of a goalie can influence how a team plays

Yeah, I made that point in another thread.

 

[BlackDogg]

Mike Smith off Ltir? Ha ha

 

[The Panther]

Mike Smith off Ltir? Ha ha

It's a tough one. I kind of get why Woody kept Campbell in net last game. He already pulled him in his previous (disastrous) start, so if you pull him again you destroy his confidence. And the Oilers will probably need two goalies down the stretch and (if we get there) the playoffs. Plus, the game was always close and the guys could have come back and won.

But, as this point... I mean, I would honestly feel safer with Pickard as the back-up. That is, I'd feel safer with a rookie backing up a rookie. That's how bad it's gotten.

Just think of it! Bakersfield could be the only AHL club with a $5 million player on its roster!

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Finally saw the 3rd period of this game. Oil dominated the final frame and couldn't beat a locked in Hellybuyck who locked in after a pretty pedestrian game (.857 GAA). Though not great for 60 min when it mattered the Jets tender shut it down.

Campbell's inability to make a big situational save is a chronic problem that compounds when he is leaky with bad goals. Though the whole Oilers own zone play was mediocre all night with breakdowns. The final second game winner goal was a disaster the whole team needs to lock down and escape to go into the final period in a road game tied up. Notable on that play was a forward who did not commit to block the point shot instead standing in the lane enabling the shot to get to the net and in. Fairness, it is a PK, but I don't see a lot of hard sacrifice play by Oiler forwards who are either coached to get out of shooting lanes to enable goalies to have clear eyes on the puck, or the forwards are not committed enough to do the small things like shot blocking that matters ... especially in key situations like closing out periods on the road. This is a repeating issue, again either coached or missing the internal hardness to sacrifice in those situations.

Interesting to watch is how the d-pairs are being deployed. Ekholm Bouchard are getting top pair deployment with McDavid's line. Early returns look good with two d that can move the puck efficiently to the super elite's line and also defend against top opposition. Bouchard's confident game in all areas is obvious with a top end veteran partner again. Moving Nurse and Ceci to middle pair responsibilities will help their game too. Broberg's ice-time is starting to shrink. Imagine he might eventually be farmed out once Holloway is healthy to get big, important minutes and situational play.

Campbell was awful in this game. But he also had no help from the team in front of him with wildly unstructured own zone play and several point shots with forwards in the area that could have put their bodies on the line to protect their struggling tender.

 

[iCanada]

Good post. One of the complications in modern era goaltending as well is not all the advice you get is right for your particular style of goaltending, size, etc. Campbell is getting in such a compact form here, making himself too small, that I'm reminded I've seen this here before and wonder who is telling him that. So rather than firesale or buyback or whatever with Campbell lets change up the goalie coaching which is pretty clearly not working great here and frankly hasn't been.

The best goaltending we've had in years was Mike Smith doing it his way. Before that it was Talbot with his own goalie coach. Its time, i think, for Campbell to be seeking a 2nd and 3rd opinion. Albeit you have to run with what got you to the show.

Campbell can pay for his own selected goalie coach and its possible he should be doing that right now.

The way I see it is goalies are micromanaged with this new fangled goalie coaching and its not always completely helpful when goalies are struggling. Nor is it one size fits all as the org tends to believe it is. Campbell is a reaction form goalie, primarily. he is not a block goalie primarily, but from what I'm seeing he's being told to be more block. This is a problem.

Part of the fortitude Campbell requires right now is getting back to what HIS style is. Not what he's being told to do that isn't working. just my take.

The other thing I wonder is how having so many dynamite offensive players affects goaltenders having to practice against them.

I would hazard a guess that for confident types that rock the mental game this would be a positive as it let's you sharpen your skills in an environment that's harder to make saves in than actual games.

That said for I'd imagine it's the opposite for guys who are technically / athletically strong whose largest barrier is mental. If you lack the mental fortitude to say "yeah I got lit up in practice but no one on the jets can shoot that way, no problem..." You might just leave every practice thinking you suck and spiraling.

Might be why a guy like Smith did well here and a guy like Koski struggled.

 

[McSuper]

Unacceptable goaltending.

He a mentally weak goalie. Not a place in the NHL for players that let things get in their head. He needs to go and Holland needs to stop listening to players and go get a proven starter in the summer ..... Saros anyone ?

Hate to go back into dead cap space but we may have to buy out Campbell. It is a shame as he is a good guy and would love to see him succeed but at this stage of McDavid's and Draisaitl career there is no time to wait. I guess F the futures and trade him ++++ for Karlsson and then pay the price for Saros.


Broberg Karlsson
Ekholm Bouchard
Nurse Vinny
Kulak
Ceci goes to make some cap space for Saros

Saros
Skinner

 

[SaltNPeca]

Mike Smith off Ltir? Ha ha

Longing for Koski / Smith... what a rough go for us Oiler fans. Just remember that the highs will be so much sweeter after experiencing these lowest lows. All part of *hockey* gods plans.

 

[WaitingForUser]

Chabot wasn't an issue. Look at the numbers Dubnyk had here behind a crap team. We might have felt he was, but in reality that team sucked. Compare that to today where the team is actually pretty decent but the goaltending is losing us games.

You are right Chabot probably wasn’t an issue but at the time it sure seemed he was. Dubnyk regressed to the point where we traded him straight across for Matt Hendricks. We should have realized at the time it probably had more to do with the birth of his first kid but here we are.

 

[AM]

I think some fans need breathing exercises. Keep in mind, the vezina winner at the other end of the ice saved only one more puck.

 

[McJadeddog]

I think some fans need breathing exercises. Keep in mind, the vezina winner at the other end of the ice saved only one more puck.

Except that said goalie locked it down in the third period and made many really good saves, whereas our tender couldn't make a floater save from the blueline. Also the xGF for each team was 4.24 for Edmonton and 3.71 for Winnipeg. So basically Edmonton scored about as many goals as expected (0.76 higher) and Winnipeg scored almost exactly TWICE AS MANY goals as they should have. xGF has its problems, especially in 1 GP sample sizes, but it's illustrative of the problem in this case. The "win o meter" at money puck has the Oilers winning the game 70% of the time as well. Too many times this year we have had a result similar to this, where we score about what we should and the opposition scores 2-3 goals more than they should. This is a Campbell problem, full stop.

 

[Stoneman89]

It's a tough one. I kind of get why Woody kept Campbell in net last game. He already pulled him in his previous (disastrous) start, so if you pull him again you destroy his confidence. And the Oilers will probably need two goalies down the stretch and (if we get there) the playoffs. Plus, the game was always close and the guys could have come back and won.

But, as this point... I mean, I would honestly feel safer with Pickard as the back-up. That is, I'd feel safer with a rookie backing up a rookie. That's how bad it's gotten.

Just think of it! Bakersfield could be the only AHL club with a $5 million player on its roster!

Something to be real proud of.

 

[McShogun99]

Imagine scoring 9 goals in 5 periods on a Vezina candidate and going 1-1 during that stretch.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Goalies around the league have been weird this year. Vezina candidates last year look one baby step ahead of Campbell.

I feel like its time for goalies to start reinventing the form and pushing back using other techniques. Goalie coaches have gotten goalies too far into what is called block goaltending. They have them playing too low, too into crease, and snipers are taking advantage of this putting pucks into narrow slots that are open, and that foils the block. just look at all of Drais recent goals. Placement shots. He scored several against one of the better goalies in the league who happens to be very big.

Graphite sticks are allowing a weapon precision and strong shots that are challenging the current goalie form. Things like the butterfly revolutionized the game for awhile. Shooters have adjusted. Now there needs to be more stand up form, playing angles, moving forward cutting out angles. Goailes getting better at stick use also needs to be there. Goals are increasing. Feel like the tide is turning. Look how many 50 goal scorers there will be this season, how many 40 goal scorers. So many snipers in the league have solved goalie tendency.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The other thing I wonder is how having so many dynamite offensive players affects goaltenders having to practice against them.

I would hazard a guess that for confident types that rock the mental game this would be a positive as it let's you sharpen your skills in an environment that's harder to make saves in than actual games.

That said for I'd imagine it's the opposite for guys who are technically / athletically strong whose largest barrier is mental. If you lack the mental fortitude to say "yeah I got lit up in practice but no one on the jets can shoot that way, no problem..." You might just leave every practice thinking you suck and spiraling.

Might be why a guy like Smith did well here and a guy like Koski struggled.

They should have let Pulju and Yams do more of the shooting in practice..

Guess work aside one of the things I miss is how easy it used to be to attend practice, training camp etc. Just drive down to Rexall and take it in and I used to do that a fair amount. Seemed like you could suss more out being there in person. Now theres less open practices, its harder to get to the DT, its the matter too of having to pay 20bucks for parking. So I just never go now.
Used to love to see what the team was like away from games and things you would notice. Things like Hemsky being such an oddball he would sit in the penalty box and have little contact with other players during scrimmage or practice. Not something you'd see from games but man that guy was a loner. He wanted to be by himself as much as possible. Also saw guys like Paajarvii be selfless in their help of others. he was a good guy. I was hard on him for lack of physicality but he would do anything to help another player learning drills etc. You used to see first hand the players that would go extra mile and were the rink rats. This kind of hidden from us now.

 

[AM]

Except that said goalie locked it down in the third period and made many really good saves, whereas our tender couldn't make a floater save from the blueline. Also the xGF for each team was 4.24 for Edmonton and 3.71 for Winnipeg. So basically Edmonton scored about as many goals as expected (0.76 higher) and Winnipeg scored almost exactly TWICE AS MANY goals as they should have. xGF has its problems, especially in 1 GP sample sizes, but it's illustrative of the problem in this case. The "win o meter" at money puck has the Oilers winning the game 70% of the time as well. Too many times this year we have had a result similar to this, where we score about what we should and the opposition scores 2-3 goals more than they should. This is a Campbell problem, full stop.

You mean we didn’t win? Yes I agree, they floated alot of shots in and got some tips. Maybe our forwards should have keyed on that.

 

[ManofSteel55]

So two questions.

First, do you buy Campbell out this off-season if you're Holland? CapFriendly's buyout calculator has his buyout cap hit at just over 1.5M next season and most seasons, with years 3 and 4 having larger hits at around 2.5M (13.8 M total over the next 8 years). Do you buy him out and hope we can lure in someone better instead? There isn't exactly a strong pool of FA goalies this summer, but something has to give. We had like 2-3 weeks of decent play for Campbell, and while I don't want to run him down constantly, we can't compete with a goalie playing like he has in net. Basically, the only real starter available as a FA is Frederik Andersen, and he's 33 years old. Maybe Jarry, but he's been awful this year as well, or Korpisalo, but I can see LA extending him. Other names include guys who are nearly done like Quick, Varlamov, Talbot, and a few guys who never reached their potential like MacKenzie Blackwood and Alex Nedeljkovic. Thoughts? Do you buy out Campbell?

 

[backhandsauce]

Mike Smith has been training hard in Kelowna for a comeback. His body is 100 percent. He can play once the playoffs come.











Wishful thinking.

 

[K1984]

So two questions.

First, do you buy Campbell out this off-season if you're Holland? CapFriendly's buyout calculator has his buyout cap hit at just over 1.5M next season and most seasons, with years 3 and 4 having larger hits at around 2.5M (13.8 M total over the next 8 years). Do you buy him out and hope we can lure in someone better instead? There isn't exactly a strong pool of FA goalies this summer, but something has to give. We had like 2-3 weeks of decent play for Campbell, and while I don't want to run him down constantly, we can't compete with a goalie playing like he has in net. Basically, the only real starter available as a FA is Frederik Andersen, and he's 33 years old. Maybe Jarry, but he's been awful this year as well, or Korpisalo, but I can see LA extending him. Other names include guys who are nearly done like Quick, Varlamov, Talbot, and a few guys who never reached their potential like MacKenzie Blackwood and Alex Nedeljkovic. Thoughts? Do you buy out Campbell?

Due to the size of the Campbell buyout in years I think it is worth trying him next year to see if he somehow rebounds. If he figures it out to some degree then he may become movable and you do it then. At minimum Holland needs to get us the as good a #3 goalie as we can find. Maybe even run with 3 goalies on the roster if we have to. We can't risk this mental midget throwing 10 points away for us next year too because the GM didn't bother to buy an insurance policy.

If he sucks again next year - buy his ass out.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Due to the size of the Campbell buyout in years I think it is worth trying him next year to see if he somehow rebounds. If he figures it out to some degree then he may become movable and you do it then. At minimum Holland needs to get us the as good a #3 goalie as we can find. Maybe even run with 3 goalies on the roster if we have to. We can't risk this mental midget throwing 10 points away for us next year too because the GM didn't bother to buy an insurance policy.

If he sucks again next year - buy his ass out.

I'm leaning towards agreeing with you. I don't even care about the 10 points in the regular season. We should be a strong enough team to get in regardless of those 10 points. I'm worried about what happens if Skinner falters, or gets injured. We don't have anyone else in the system to cover for his bad play if that happens. Holland absolutely should have found a better 3rd stringer at the deadline. I wasn't thinking about that at all prior to the deadline, but I sure wish we had a better goalie down there right now.

Mike Smith has been training hard in Kelowna for a comeback. His body is 100 percent. He can play once the playoffs come.











Wishful thinking.

I was getting excited for a minute. That's cruel. And sad.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I think some fans need breathing exercises. Keep in mind, the vezina winner at the other end of the ice saved only one more puck.

This is part of the issue though. We don't have a goalie capable of shutting it down to hold a lead it seems. I'm not going to condemn Skinner by saying he'll never be that guy, he's been ahead of the curve the entire time he's been in the org. But our veteran who was signed to be a #1 damn well can't, and that could very realistically be what sinks this team this season.

 

[AM]

This is part of the issue though. We don't have a goalie capable of shutting it down to hold a lead it seems. I'm not going to condemn Skinner by saying he'll never be that guy, he's been ahead of the curve the entire time he's been in the org. But our veteran who was signed to be a #1 damn well can't, and that could very realistically be what sinks this team this season.

The answer is in the room. They have hang together and play to their strengths.

 

[Leonardlizard]

The goal is to sell shirts right?

 

[MessierThanThou]

Except that said goalie locked it down in the third period and made many really good saves, whereas our tender couldn't make a floater save from the blueline. Also the xGF for each team was 4.24 for Edmonton and 3.71 for Winnipeg. So basically Edmonton scored about as many goals as expected (0.76 higher) and Winnipeg scored almost exactly TWICE AS MANY goals as they should have. xGF has its problems, especially in 1 GP sample sizes, but it's illustrative of the problem in this case. The "win o meter" at money puck has the Oilers winning the game 70% of the time as well. Too many times this year we have had a result similar to this, where we score about what we should and the opposition scores 2-3 goals more than they should. This is a Campbell problem, full stop.

Is data like this actually covered by the Edmonton sports media? Either way, it should be.