Financial Boycott of Melnyk-owned Senators

[coladin]

Melnyk has quit on us, bud.

What number is Melnyk?

I know you have been to the arena alot, growing up. You stated you grew up with this team, no different than my son, who doesn't know a time that there weren't Senators. Still, you can shut that tap off? You won't watch games on TV? To boycott means no Sens hockey, period. I know people are upset, I just don't see how anyone with a heartbeat could actually go through with not going to games or watching on TV.

 

[BonkTastic]

They are jumping ship. I see a lot of quitters here, and they are proud to say it too.

How are you defining "quitter"? Where are you drawing that line?

People who literally have stopped cheering for the Sens and have picked another team to follow? People who have stopped buying tickets to games? People who have reduced their spending habits with Sens-related items?

Not criticizing anything here - I'm just looking for an accurate read on your definition and interpretation of that word as it applies to the current situation this fanbase finds itself in.

 

[Charliebox]

look @armani, someone who is not shaking their baby rattler.

Ok, they aren't building an arena, correct. If you think Lebreton ensures that the Sens won't move, have you not stated that the Sens will not be moved? So why does Lebreton need to happen to ensure the viability of the franchise? I don't think they will be moved because the NHL does not want that to happen.

Again, someone try and answer why Carolina and Arizona, and Florida are still in operation with lousy, embarrassing attendance.

I can answer that. It's because their owners also own the buildings and get all the money from concerts, parking, concessions etc. If those teams didn't exist, those buildings wouldn't exist and those owners wouldn't get money from concerts and other events.

It's the same thing with the Senators. And this is why I call BS when Eugene cries poor. He makes 40M/yr from TV before one seat is sold. Florida, Carolina and Arizona get next to nothing on that front.

I've always called out Eugene for lying to us about the money he makes with this team. He basically takes money out of one pocket (the Senators) and puts it into the other (Ottawa sports management that owns the building, concessions and parking), then pulls out the Senators pocket and says, "see guys, I'm broke". Such a scum bag.

I would love him to actually feel what broke is like. Stop going to games.

 

[Charliebox]

What number is Melnyk?

I know you have been to the arena alot, growing up. You stated you grew up with this team, no different than my son, who doesn't know a time that there weren't Senators. Still, you can shut that tap off? You won't watch games on TV? To boycott means no Sens hockey, period. I know people are upset, I just don't see how anyone with a heartbeat could actually go through with not going to games or watching on TV.

The TV deal is 10 years long and was signed for the start of the 2015 season.

Watching or not watching on TV is not going to affect his bottom line. He's getting a fixed amount regardless.

 

[Danythegod]

The players haven't though, and this isn't the Ottawa Melnyks, it's the Ottawa Senators. Your city name is in there too...

The point here is that the players may not have quit on us but they don't get that choice with Melnyk running this ship because if they have a spectacular year, it could mean their demise on this team. Who as a fan honestly can get with that? Who as a fan can take constant losing because of drama being thrust into our organization.

In all aspects of my life, I don't believe in failure or losing, but I will accept failure and the pride to admit it, which Melnyk is not admitting too. This is a sign of someone who cannot admit failure and work to improve it. He has failed us and is constantly lying and using others as scapegoats. Which instance can you provide where Melnyk has failed and admitted his failure and improved on this? His stellar acting career with Boro?

If you're going to be fan of losing because it's "entertainment", by all means, go to every game and watch it on centre ice. You can stay silent and avoid all this conflict and energy wasted on us. A majority of the fans will question their allegiance until this matter is resolved. I love my Sens but gosh darnit this is embarrassing being a fan of the team.

The one thing you'll see I've pointed out multiple times is Melnyk. Therein lies our problem with the Sens organization and nobody else. A true man or woman that is competent will identify they're the issue and move on. As Pierre Dorion stated at his press conference with Terry from CTV:

"I think at our age, Terry, we can identify when things aren't working out between two parties that they should go their separate ways".

That was his words about Karlsson and the Sens(Melnyk).

Melnyk has brought complete shame to this organization and has soured his relations with the 'MAJORITY' of its fans.

I, for one, will be contemplating my love for the Sens as I cannot deal with the lies, disloyalty and embarrassment of this team. Some might say bandwagon, but some might say if you love something, let it go.

 

[Sensung]

What number is Melnyk?

I know you have been to the arena alot, growing up. You stated you grew up with this team, no different than my son, who doesn't know a time that there weren't Senators. Still, you can shut that tap off? You won't watch games on TV? To boycott means no Sens hockey, period. I know people are upset, I just don't see how anyone with a heartbeat could actually go through with not going to games or watching on TV.

Sorry, a boycott does not mean Sens fans don't watch the games, they simply don't buy tickets or spend any money on Eugene's businesses.

Carolina, Arizona and Florida have far lower revenues than the Sens. Eugene's business model was built on a mid sized market. He'll try and adapt in the short term by cutting salaries, but won't be able to sustain.

 

[coladin]

How are you defining "quitter"? Where are you drawing that line?

People who literally have stopped cheering for the Sens and have picked another team to follow? People who have stopped buying tickets to games? People who have reduced their spending habits with Sens-related items?

Not criticizing anything here - I'm just looking for an accurate read on your definition and interpretation of that word as it applies to the current situation this fanbase finds itself in.

The people who start threads saying "i'm done", "i'm cheering for another team", for starters. And yet they still continue to post here. Like, just do it, or don't say it. They know who they are, and maybe it reflects more about them rather than the hockey situation.

To a lesser extent, people who "won't give a dime" , yet they will watch on TV, so that isn't entirely true , either.

You want to quit? Fine, just go away. of course, people can do whatever they want. But don't say you are quitting the team. If you do , then just follow through.

We are all mad. But it is done. Part of me feels relief, actually. Waiting, as they say, is the hardest part. So , of course, be angry, but quitting something that many profess to care about either rings hollow or they weren't as big of a fan that they thought they were.

But a boycott won't work. Carolina and Arizona are still here, why? No one is answering that question. If they do, they will realize that Ottawa will survive in this market with poor attendance, because the other lousy markets do. The organization will simply survive as the others do, and run a barebones cap floor team. Our stars will leave for money that is not realistic to pay here. $88M or whatever was never going to happen here with 8K season tickets, let alone 4K.

This is a fractured relationship that has turned into civil war between fans, and between the owner and fans. Things have to mend if we want the franchise that we all think we deserve.

But he ain't selling. Not with Lebreton on the horizon.

 

[armani]

I, for one, will be contemplating my love for the Sens as I cannot deal with the lies, disloyalty and embarrassment of this team. Some might say bandwagon, but some might say if you love something, let it go.

I like your post Heater. Personally, I am not contemplating leaving the Sens. In fact, as a diehard, I am fighting for a change to save our franchise by boycotting. And it's super damn tough emotionally.

Yet, it's a necessity.

 

[The Lewler]

Are we going to do this again where we basically try to play identity politics with people's fandom? Put them into boxes and everyone in that box thinks and is the same?

 

[Ice-Tray]

The players haven't, but they are still getting paid regardless. Even if zero people go to the games, the players are going to get paid.

It's not about the players. It never has been.

As I said a few pages back. This is a very unique situation when it comes to professional sports. I would never suggest a boycott under pretty much all other circumstances. That said, we are way beyond ever believing the Eugene Melnyk is going to do what's best for the team, the fans or the city. He's going to do what's best for himself, period.

Also, let's be real. The players know what's going on. They know Melnyk is hated. I'm sure most of them aren't huge fans of the guy, either. It's not like these guys are going to cry themselves to sleep at night thinking the fans hate them if they don't show up.

No doubt, my point was more that the players haven't given up in terms of playing and so there is still hockey to enjoy.

 

[IlTerrifico]

look @armani,

Again, someone try and answer why Carolina and Arizona, and Florida are still in operation with lousy, embarrassing attendance.

Easy. When running a competitive team in those markets, the teams historically did reasonably well and showed that there is a hope of at least breaking even if things are done correctly.

Sports ownership is the piece de resistance for rich people to have a shot at public profile, adoration and glory. Small market teams come available for dreamers, while large market teams generally don't come up for sale often because they combine profits with all the vanity available.

The same reason there are owners who will buy those 3 low hope teams is a 10x reason why ScrooGene could sell the Sens after he runs them into the ground. Ottawa can break even and possibly make a profit with its higher revenues and big media dollars, with even fair to good management.

People see a manipulative idiot owner who wasted $10M on Kovalev, $40M on Ryan, $3oM on Phaneuf/Gaborik,etc. etc., and they see the new media deal and they see absent of stupidity, easy break even and likely profit. Add in the rights to Lebreton and even the Barbados idiot can make a big profit on the sale, unless he runs the thing into the ground for a few more years.

Garage bands don't buy instruments to get rich, and golfers don't buy clubs to get on the PGA tour. We all buy toys in our affordable bracket to enjoy....except ScrooGene, who between meddling and divorce settlements and lawsuits, refuses to look in the mirror and feels hard done by because we don't support some of the stupidest acts in the history of team ownership. Once you take away belief from your clients that respect is a the control 2 way street, you're done. Time for somebody who has a grip on what a joy an NHL team can be as a rich man's toy to save a fool from himself.

 

[armani]

The TV deal is 10 years long and was signed for the start of the 2015 season.

Watching or not watching on TV is not going to affect his bottom line. He's getting a fixed amount regardless.

Boycotting games on TV means less TPR ratings, especially for Bell/TSN who owns the regional rights. It means another loud voice, this time a giant like TSN who has vested interest and has got the mic anyway.

On the flip side, TV/web streaming are the only way to watch my beloved Sens without putting additional money in Melnyk's pocket ($40M/year already set by TSN).

Tough dilemma. As a fan of the team donning the Sens crest, I will watch when I can, but be creative about it wrt TPR ratings.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I can answer that. It's because their owners also own the buildings and get all the money from concerts, parking, concessions etc. If those teams didn't exist, those buildings wouldn't exist and those owners wouldn't get money from concerts and other events.

It's the same thing with the Senators. And this is why I call BS when Eugene cries poor. He makes 40M/yr from TV before one seat is sold. Florida, Carolina and Arizona get next to nothing on that front.

I've always called out Eugene for lying to us about the money he makes with this team. He basically takes money out of one pocket (the Senators) and puts it into the other (Ottawa sports management that owns the building, concessions and parking), then pulls out the Senators pocket and says, "see guys, I'm broke". Such a scum bag.

I would love him to actually feel what broke is like. Stop going to games.

I don't want to get too deep into this debate, but the Panthers are paid $86 million per year by Broward County to play in Sunrise until at least 2028.

 

[stempniaksen]

No doubt, my point was more that the players haven't given up in terms of playing and so there is still hockey to enjoy.

Did you watch any games last season?

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Did you watch any games last season?

I went to the Detroit-Ottawa game last year towards the end of the year and it was literally the worst ever hockey game I have ever been to live. Both teams players did not give a shit, it was terrible.

 

[Charliebox]

The people who start threads saying "i'm done", "i'm cheering for another team", for starters. And yet they still continue to post here. Like, just do it, or don't say it. They know who they are, and maybe it reflects more about them rather than the hockey situation.

To a lesser extent, people who "won't give a dime" , yet they will watch on TV, so that isn't entirely true , either.

You want to quit? Fine, just go away. of course, people can do whatever they want. But don't say you are quitting the team. If you do , then just follow through.

We are all mad. But it is done. Part of me feels relief, actually. Waiting, as they say, is the hardest part. So , of course, be angry, but quitting something that many profess to care about either rings hollow or they weren't as big of a fan that they thought they were.

But a boycott won't work. Carolina and Arizona are still here, why? No one is answering that question. If they do, they will realize that Ottawa will survive in this market with poor attendance, because the other lousy markets do. The organization will simply survive as the others do, and run a barebones cap floor team. Our stars will leave for money that is not realistic to pay here. $88M or whatever was never going to happen here with 8K season tickets, let alone 4K.

This is a fractured relationship that has turned into civil war between fans, and between the owner and fans. Things have to mend if we want the franchise that we all think we deserve.

But he ain't selling. Not with Lebreton on the horizon.

Are you just playing dumb? Honestly? I don't want to resort to personal attacks. I am not that type of person, but you're purposely ignoring my posts. I just detailed those teams.

To make it even clearer, refer to this:

The Business Of Hockey

It's from 2017.

Look at the operating losses Arizona and Florida are incurring each year. You think Melnyk can handle those losses? You think his 'plan' is to lose 20M/yr? He just had to take out another (private) loan this year. Generally, when businesses get private loans, it's because banks are done with them. And private loans are ALWAYS at a higher interest rate than a bank will give you. There will come a time when people will stop lending him money. If he's already past the point of banks, he's in a pretty rough spot.

The precise goal of the boycott is to make the building look like Arizona or Miami. The goal is for him to lose a boatload of money and be forced to sell. He's not far from it right now and that was with a huge playoff run (and a ton of extra cash) only two years ago.

 

[Charliebox]

Boycotting games on TV means less TPR ratings, especially for Bell/TSN who owns the regional rights. It means another loud voice, this time a giant like TSN who has vested interest and has got the mic anyway.

On the flip side, TV/web streaming are the only way to watch my beloved Sens without putting additional money in Melnyk's pocket ($40M/year already set by TSN).

Tough dilemma. As a fan of the team donning the Sens crest, I will watch when I can, but be creative about it wrt TPR ratings.

Oh I understand that. My point is that it will be 5 years before they negotiate another deal. If we are still in the same spot, with the same owner, at that point, worrying about TV money will be the least of our problems!

 

[coladin]

I can answer that. It's because their owners also own the buildings and get all the money from concerts, parking, concessions etc. If those teams didn't exist, those buildings wouldn't exist and those owners wouldn't get money from concerts and other events.

It's the same thing with the Senators. And this is why I call BS when Eugene cries poor. He makes 40M/yr from TV before one seat is sold. Florida, Carolina and Arizona get next to nothing on that front.

I've always called out Eugene for lying to us about the money he makes with this team. He basically takes money out of one pocket (the Senators) and puts it into the other (Ottawa sports management that owns the building, concessions and parking), then pulls out the Senators pocket and says, "see guys, I'm broke". Such a scum bag.

I would love him to actually feel what broke is like. Stop going to games.

Ok, thanks for the response. Yes, arena revenue will help, for sure. But, the NHL helps as well, big time. That is in their constitution, that they all buy in and pay for, whether it is equalization payments, or the lockout war chest. They all help each other.

Now, it is also established that the Senators have lost money, (94M over a 10 year period).
Under Eugene Melnyk, Senators have lost $94 million It is a good read and reading it again, was actually relevant to what this team is doing debt-wise.

We know the owner is constantly refinancing to borrow and also reduce his payments. We also have revenues that are in Canadian Tire money instead of American.

I don't know if he is lying or not , but the above facts would tell me that at best, this is a revenue neutral business in this market only when you can go deep in the playoffs. Regular season only? No way. No one knows for sure how the CTC and the franchise co-exist, but losses are still losses nonetheless.

All of this to say , the NHL will simply expand equalization payments to make the franchise viable, and there are strings attached with that as well. They just don't give it to him without the Senators satisfying criterias.

I appreciate a normal discussion

 

[coladin]

Sorry, a boycott does not mean Sens fans don't watch the games, they simply don't buy tickets or spend any money on Eugene's businesses.

Carolina, Arizona and Florida have far lower revenues than the Sens. Eugene's business model was built on a mid sized market. He'll try and adapt in the short term by cutting salaries, but won't be able to sustain.

If you don't watch , then advertising revenues for the network are affected, could there be a renegotiation of the existing deal to reflect that?

I just think it is phony for people to boycott, yet still watch the team and be "passionate". Really easy too.

Those American markets have lower revenues, but they are still surviving. Ottawa will survive , we just won't like what we are watching. Or not watching.

 

[Charliebox]

Those American markets have lower revenues, but they are still surviving. Ottawa will survive , we just won't like what we are watching. Or not watching.

They also have billionaire owners - billionaire owners who don't finance the teams through debt.

Melnyk is paying a ridiculous amount of money in interest payments, whereas most other professional sports owners own their teams outright, or have very little debt.

Professional sports owners, outside the NFL, for the most part, own their teams as a hobby. Making or losing money isn't their main concern. They own the teams for fun. They want their teams to win more than they care about making money. Melnyk is the opposite. He is the exception to the rule.

 

[Sensung]

If you don't watch , then advertising revenues for the network are affected, could there be a renegotiation of the existing deal to reflect that?

I just think it is phony for people to boycott, yet still watch the team and be "passionate". Really easy too.

Those American markets have lower revenues, but they are still surviving. Ottawa will survive , we just won't like what we are watching. Or not watching.

The TV deal won't be renegotiated until it is ending.

The money the TV companies can charge will drop if viewership drops. They might push the NHL to pressure Eugene to sell.

For the last time, fans can be passionate without going to games. Please stop calling it phony.

I'd argue that passionate fans want what is best for their team. In the Sens case, that is getting rid of our idiot owner. A boycott may not work, but it has a decent chance.

Supporting Eugene makes the chances zero that he'll sell. That is an unacceptable outcome for myself and many other passionate Sens fan.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Did you watch any games last season?

I did, but I'm looking forward to this season where it should be a better brand of hockey. It's a rebuild and we'll have lots of kids so I'm not expecting the wins to pile up, but I do expect the team to be entertaining.

 

[BankStreetParade]

They also have billionaire owners - billionaire owners who don't finance the teams through debt.

Melnyk is paying a ridiculous amount of money in interest payments, whereas most other professional sports owners own their teams outright, or have very little debt.

Professional sports owners, outside the NFL, for the most part, own their teams as a hobby. Making or losing money isn't their main concern. They own the teams for fun. They want their teams to win more than they care about making money. Melnyk is the opposite. He is the exception to the rule.

According to Forbes, the two teams with the worst debt-to-value ratios are the Carolina Hurricanes (70%) and the Arizona Coyotes (83%). Florida is also bottom 10 (38%).

Additionally, for Florida, they are paid $86 million per year by Broward County to play in Sunrise. That deal remains in effect until 2028.

 

[coladin]

Are you just playing dumb? Honestly? I don't want to resort to personal attacks. I am not that type of person, but you're purposely ignoring my posts. I just detailed those teams.

To make it even clearer, refer to this:

The Business Of Hockey

It's from 2017.

Look at the operating losses Arizona and Florida are incurring each year. You think Melnyk can handle those losses? You think his 'plan' is to lose 20M/yr? He just had to take out another (private) loan this year. Generally, when businesses get private loans, it's because banks are done with them. And private loans are ALWAYS at a higher interest rate than a bank will give you. There will come a time when people will stop lending him money. If he's already past the point of banks, he's in a pretty rough spot.

The precise goal of the boycott is to make the building look like Arizona or Miami. The goal is for him to lose a boatload of money and be forced to sell. He's not far from it right now and that was with a huge playoff run (and a ton of extra cash) only two years ago.

We don't know what the equalization payments amount to. Even Ottawa, showing positive income, receive payments from the NHL. There is a reason for that. From what I can find, the NHL pays around 20$ M USD to the weakest teams from a pool that comes from revenue sharing, playoff tickets, etc...but there are conditions to that.

 

[Take a Bath Son]

Are we going to do this again where we basically try to play identity politics with people's fandom? Put them into boxes and everyone in that box thinks and is the same?

I fully expect Bill Murray to show up on February 2, report on the issue and join us in this vicious cycle...