Finally: Grabo vs Bozak

[thewave]

I don't know about that. There was something rocky-esque about seeing him get hit hard over and over again and still getting up.

That's a real intangible, guy is made of diamond and iron will. You know I wouldn't be surprised after this season Burke makes a play for him when he hits FA if he makes it to FA.

Outside Ovi this year Grabo has probably been the best player on WSH. It's mostly all even strength production there's some but not much PP point padding there.

Oates was asked about the third line, he corrects the reporter with "You mean the first line". Nice little pump of the tires there.

Just a couple years ago Chuck I believe said, I wouldn't be surprised if Grabos ceiling is 70-80 PTS. 22 or so games outside Randy's kennel that's where Grabo finds himself on pace for and it's not padded Pp minutes, it's work and determination getting him there.

His detractors here, head on a swivel, he is an offensive black hole, that's clearly not the case though now is it.

 

[TheKule]

Outside Ovi this year Grabo has probably been the best player on WSH. It's mostly all even strength production there's some but not much PP point padding there.

Ward-Grabovski-Laich work really well together. It's like Grabo with 2 Kulemins on his wing.

 

[BonMorrison]

Ward-Grabovski-Laich work really well together. It's like Grabo with 2 Kulemins on his wing.

Laich has been hot garbage this year as has Brouwer. The Chimera - Grabovski - Ward line need not be tinkered with, they're pretty much the second line now.

Oates in his infinite wisdom had moved Erat to centre last game. Terrible.

 

[Crispy Crust]

Was this post serious?

It's not hard to tell a bad hockey player from a quality one.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Outside Ovi this year Grabo has probably been the best player on WSH. It's mostly all even strength production there's some but not much PP point padding there.

Probably NOT, Backstrom says hi.

 

[BonMorrison]

Probably NOT, Backstrom says hi.

Mhm. Backstrom and Ovi have been insanely good. I'd have Johansson and Grabo tied for third best on that team so far.

 

[sniper81]

It's not hard to tell a bad hockey player from a quality one.

The fact that you think bozak is a fourth line centre is... Well.... Laughable. It's also not hard to why certain players don't fit in certain systems.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Mhm. Backstrom and Ovi have been insanely good. I'd have Johansson and Grabo tied for third best on that team so far.

Yep, agreed. Backstrom and Johansson have been very good this year.

 

[Crispy Crust]

The fact that you think bozak is a fourth line centre is... Well.... Laughable. It's also not hard to why certain players don't fit in certain systems.

No it isn't. He is statistically one of the worst top 6 C's in the game. I don't understand this fascination this fanbase has for a fringe NHLer. It's not hard to replace a replacement level talent like Bozak, but it's hard to replace guys like Kadri.

 

[sniper81]

No it isn't. He is statistically one of the worst top 6 C's in the game. I don't understand this fascination this fanbase has for a fringe NHLer. It's not hard to replace a replacement level talent like Bozak, but it's hard to replace guys like Kadri.

A fringe NHLer, do you watch the games? Serious question. It's probably been explained to you multiple times but bozak is a good fit for kessel and jvr because he plays in his own end and if they don't have someone that can do that then they get hemmed in and torched. Bozak is a very good defensive centre, I don't care what your stats say.

 

[Crispy Crust]

A fringe NHLer, do you watch the games? Serious question. It's probably been explained to you multiple times but bozak is a good fit for kessel and jvr because he plays in his own end and if they don't have someone that can do that then they get hemmed in and torched. Bozak is a very good defensive centre, I don't care what your stats say.

1. If you actually watch this team play on a regular basis, you would know he is a fringe NHL talent.

2. He is a good fit because he stays out of their way? Bozak is a possession black hole and does nothing to help push possession forward. So this idea that the Kessel/JVR line would get hemmed in their zone and torched if Bozak or someone equivalent wasn't centering their line is false.

3. Bozak is not a good defensive centre. That appears to be another myth here. Kadri is actually better than him. Kadri pushes possession forward, and the more time you spend in the offensive zone the better.

4. Well statistics like Corsi and Fenwick are pretty much just a representation of the games you just watched.

 

[Trainspotter]

His detractors here, head on a swivel, he is an offensive black hole, that's clearly not the case though now is it.

No one with any brains doubted his ability to put up points given offensive minutes. His "detractors" - if that's what you choose to call them - generally doubt his ability to play effectively in a primarily defensive role and still score with any regularity. This is in stark contrast to the player who replaced him in that role, Dave Bolland, who despite also starting a lot in his own end and frequently having impressive Corsi Rel numbers over his career has been able to score at a greater pace than Grabovski did last year in a similar role. Funny that in all the defenses of Grabovski and how he was mistreated by Carlyle, there's no mention that his frequent linemate, Kulemin, played tougher minutes and still scored more.

BTW, it's interesting that his champions, formerly so quick to point to his superior Corsi, have gone silent on that. Somehow stupid Randy got a better Corsi number out of him than genius Oates and somehow he's scoring more despite much, much worse Corsi numbers. But we won't mention that. It would be impolite.

 

[bleed_oil]

Not sure if the choice was Grabovski vs Bozak as it was Grabovski vs Carlyle though giving Bozak the big new deal certainly didnt help things.

 

[Trainspotter]

Not sure if the choice was Grabovski vs Bozak as it was Grabovski vs Carlyle though giving Bozak the big new deal certainly didnt help things.

It wasn't either. Bozak is a static variable. It was a choice between Grabovski and increasing Kadri's role both offensively and defensively and bringing in a guy like Bolland who's better suited (and more appropriately paid) to play tough two-way minutes. The cost of our centers went down and the team's offensive production is still very good. Before a freak accident/injury, Bolland was as advertised, better even. What we needed was better defensive abilities and the kinds of players who sack up when the going gets tough. Rumour is Grabovski didn't exactly relish going back on the ice during the collapse against the Bruins. Character doesn't mean as much when it's fighting the Kostitsyns in game 30-something of the regular season.

 

[The Legend]

A fringe NHLer, do you watch the games? Serious question. .

Serious question - can people around here make any argument without resorting to "do you watch the games?"

 

[bunjay]

Had Bozak not been spoonfed minutes with a superstar from his first NHL game, where do we think he would be now? If he'd had to start on a third or fourth line and work his way up? IMO he would still be on a third line and getting paid about half what he makes now. He should be signing over half his paycheques to Kessel.

Maybe people have forgotten but when Bozak first came into the NHL he had a string of 20 games or so where he looked really good. And he's never looked that good since. He has existed in the perfect storm his whole NHL career, in which he's never actually had to compete with other players for his spot on the first line. He's given it by default, and everybody goes on and on about "chemistry" that isn't really there. The guy is alright at everything and not particularly good at anything. He escapes a lot of criticism for defensive play and faceoff ability that is, again, not really there.

 

[thewave]

No one with any brains doubted his ability to put up points given offensive minutes. His "detractors" - if that's what you choose to call them - generally doubt his ability to play effectively in a primarily defensive role and still score with any regularity. This is in stark contrast to the player who replaced him in that role, Dave Bolland, who despite also starting a lot in his own end and frequently having impressive Corsi Rel numbers over his career has been able to score at a greater pace than Grabovski did last year in a similar role. Funny that in all the defenses of Grabovski and how he was mistreated by Carlyle, there's no mention that his frequent linemate, Kulemin, played tougher minutes and still scored more.

BTW, it's interesting that his champions, formerly so quick to point to his superior Corsi, have gone silent on that. Somehow stupid Randy got a better Corsi number out of him than genius Oates and somehow he's scoring more despite much, much worse Corsi numbers. But we won't mention that. It would be impolite.

I talk highly of Kules all the time, would rather see Grabo go than Kules. He is so damn important to this club I think I may let anyone outside JVR Kessel Kadri lupul go before Kulemin. It's part of why I am so pissed about the Clarksob contract. It's the money thing flat out and the signing of Clarkson is going to raise the monetary value of Kules.

If Kulemin Is a smart man he will leave this team sadly for the way he is utilized. This guy is essentially getting the Grabo treatment after he slumped when his friends died in a plane crash. It's sad, honestly I think the gear is there, he was unhappy with his last contract, they bickered lots.

When he is gone we will pretty much be a Slav free zone, maybe it the intention who the duck knows anymore where managements head is.

 

[bunjay]

I talk highly of Kules all the time, would rather see Grabo go than Kules. He is so damn important to this club I think I may let anyone outside JVR Kessel Kadri lupul go before Kulemin. It's part of why I am so pissed about the Clarksob contract. It's the money thing flat out and the signing of Clarkson is going to raise the monetary value of Kules.

If Kulemin Is a smart man he will leave this team sadly for the way he is utilized. This guy is essentially getting the Grabo treatment after he slumped when his friends died in a plane crash. It's sad, honestly I think the gear is there, he was unhappy with his last contract, they bickered lots.

When he is gone we will pretty much be a Slav free zone, maybe it the intention who the duck knows anymore where managements head is.

130 games or so is a hell of a slump.

 

[thewave]

130 games or so is a hell of a slump.

I don't think he likes it here but I don't know. Watch him with Malkin in Russia. I think there was a press release to the effect he was underwhelmed by the contract.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

Had Bozak not been spoonfed minutes with a superstar from his first NHL game, where do we think he would be now? If he'd had to start on a third or fourth line and work his way up? IMO he would still be on a third line and getting paid about half what he makes now. He should be signing over half his paycheques to Kessel.

Maybe people have forgotten but when Bozak first came into the NHL he had a string of 20 games or so where he looked really good. And he's never looked that good since. He has existed in the perfect storm his whole NHL career, in which he's never actually had to compete with other players for his spot on the first line. He's given it by default, and everybody goes on and on about "chemistry" that isn't really there. The guy is alright at everything and not particularly good at anything. He escapes a lot of criticism for defensive play and faceoff ability that is, again, not really there.

Truer words have never been spoken!

 

[Daisy Jane]

130 games or so is a hell of a slump.

wasn't his first goal this season the first he scored since april of last year - (and even taking into account his injury - only his 4th/5th shot on net in the season?)

so yeah - that's a heck of a slump.

 

[BonMorrison]

Kulemin is not in a slump, he simply isn't that much of an offensively effective player, I'm flabbergasted that people think his offensive game is just going to magically return after 130 games. It was an anomaly of a season - that's that. MacArthur was in his contract year and carried that line much like how he's doing in Ottawa right now.

He's a third line defensive winger and a very, VERY high end one at that. Be happy with it, I sure as hell am, he's my favorite guy on the team.

 

[sniper81]

Serious question - can people around here make any argument without resorting to "do you watch the games?"

Well if he watched the games he would see bozak is not a fringe NHLer and would of gotten paid as a top 6 centre on free agent day.

 

[bunjay]

I don't think he likes it here but I don't know. Watch him with Malkin in Russia. I think there was a press release to the effect he was underwhelmed by the contract.

Accepting that his 30-goal season was an anomoly offers a more reasonable explanation. If he didn't like it here (and by "here" I assume you mean North American in general) why would he have signed a contract he didn't like in the first place? Probably could have gotten more in the KHL, where they would still remember him as the wrecking-ball MVP of the RSL.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The fact that you think bozak is a fourth line centre is... Well.... Laughable. It's also not hard to why certain players don't fit in certain systems.

What is this Toronto system I keep hearing about? Whatever it is it, it's either not a very good system, or the players we have aren't able to execute it according to plan. Perhaps this system isn't our best option.