Fill in the blank: McDavid is the best offensive player since _______

[The Grim Reaper]

A full normal season next year will be the true litmus test.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

A full normal season next year will be the true litmus test.

Doesn't do it. It's because he's 25 and older

 

[Sun God Nika]

Crosby.

 

[Sun God Nika]

how many people who voted anyone other Crosby has been watching hockey since Lemiuex actually played...

 

[McFlash97]

Doesn't do it. It's because he's 25 and older

He is 24 for 60% of next season. It absolutely counts.

True hater.

 

[Mrb1p]

Crosby lol, hes never actually outproduced 2011 Sid and I doubt he will. GPG for 25 games straight, 25 assists.

Injury or not, thats Sids peak and Mcdavid never came close and likely never will.

Todays NHL is disgusting points wise. Unless you think the top 5-10 players are much greater than the 5-10s of that era, theres no argument.

Then theres the whole canadian division bs lmao.

 

[McFlash97]

Crosby lol, hes never actually outproduced 2011 Sid and I doubt he will. GPG for 25 games straight, 25 assists.

Injury or not, thats Sids peak and Mcdavid never came close and likely never will.

Todays NHL is disgusting points wise. Unless you think the top 5-10 players are much greater than the 5-10s of that era, theres no argument.

Then theres the whole canadian division bs lmao.

Hahahahahahaj

He blows 2011 Crosby away.

It's not even close in the regular season.

[mod]

87 points in 49 games.

On pace to reach 100 in 56.

Sit down and give some respect.

 

[bobholly39]

Jagr's prime was during the years Lemieux battled cancer. Had he been competing with Lemieux he'd most likely have 0 Art Rosses. Pittsburgh was giving both star players approximately 6-8 mins on the PP from what I can gather and guesstimate based on his 2000-2001 PP ice time then looking at past PP points.
Jagr benefitted from being in the right place at the right time.

I don't follow your logic. Even if I agree with your premise that - if Lemieux is fully healthy and playing every season in the 90s - and even if I agree that Lemieux wins every Art Ross in the 90s - how does that take away from Jagr in anyway? Your premise essentially is "Lemieux > Jagr" - or maybe "Lemieux >>> Jagr". I don't think anyone denies that.

The reason why Jagr is regarded as highly as he is - especially offensively - is because the late 90s was still a golden era in terms of offensive talent. Bure, Forsberg, Sakic, Selanne, Kariya, Lindros...lots of really high end players. And he beat them all, fair and square, every year without fail to the Ross.

McDavid hasn't done that yet. He lost to Kucherov, and to Drai
Crosby/Ovechkin didn't do that. They lost to Sedin, Malkin.

I just don't understand how you can say he benefits from 'right place right time' when he won them without Lemieux.

Jagr 2001? Absolutely, right place right time. Without Lemieux - Sakic wins it. That's the only one though. And I'd go one step further - without Lemieux in 1996, Jagr probably still wins (but not by same margin), so probably an even trade-off with 1996.

Just from watching the games. Lemieux was struggling in 96-97 until Jagr and Francis were put on his line. Jagr had significantly closed the gap that year and was poised to pass him the next season imo. And in 00-01 as amazing as Lemieux was Jagr was the clear driver of that line and was outperforming him.

It's certainly possible Lemieux takes another of Jagr's art rosses but it's fair to say Jagr's art rosses were deserved.

Otherwise do we start saying Gretzky didn't deserve all of his? Because starting in 1988 the only time Gretzky won an art ross was if Lemieux was injured.

Even if we agree that Jagr outproduced Lemieux in 2001 and that in 1997 he maybe "looked better" as you say - I don't think this guarantees anything had Lemieux played in between 97 and 2001. Simply put - Lemieux is better than Jagr, arguably the most talented player ever. You can't just assume that he continues to decline/slow down. Ups and downs are very possible. I say there's a very good chance Lemieux wins any of the 98, 99, 2000 and 2001 Art Ross trophies if he's playing. Maybe he splits some with Jagr, but I expect he'd be in the race every time and probably wins a couple.

Honestly - it just comes down to health for Lemieux. He was never healthy. Because if healthy, he was running away with the Ross by ridiculous margins as late as 2003.

 

[dm1371]

Crosby is the right answer

 

[gamer1035]

Dude would have 400 points a season if he played in the 80s/90s.

 

[667ekip]

Since Kucherov.

I'm willing to bet good money that Mcdavid never beats Kucherov 128pts season ever.

People are putting too much stock into this years stats. Won't be the norm.

 

[82Ninety42011]

Since Jagr for myself and I'm hoping that he does 150 points next full season to prove it.

 

[authentic]

Since Jagr for myself and I'm hoping that he does 150 points next full season to prove it.

That won't happen. 140 maybe, 130 I think he will do but even still I'm not sure if I would bet on it.

 

[nowhereman]

Hahahahahahaj

He blows 2011 Crosby away.

It's not even close in the regular season.

[mod]

87 points in 49 games.

On pace to reach 100 in 56.

Sit down and give some respect.

Take a breath.

This season is a Mickey Mouse experiment and just because McDavid is putting up Fantasyland points, doesn't mean he's better than peak Sid and he certainly doesn't "blow him away".

 

[Mrb1p]

Hahahahahahaj

He blows 2011 Crosby away.

It's not even close in the regular season.

[mod]

87 points in 49 games.

On pace to reach 100 in 56.

Sit down and give some respect.

He plays in the worst defensive league ever seen and he barely outproduces him and he's nowhere near as good defensively and he's also nowhere near as good a goalscorer.

2011 Crosby was like 2021 Matthew+McDavid+Couturier in one player, the perfect hockey player.

 

[Felidae]

Jagr's prime was during the years Lemieux battled cancer. Had he been competing with Lemieux he'd most likely have 0 Art Rosses. Pittsburgh was giving both star players approximately 6-8 mins on the PP from what I can gather and guesstimate based on his 2000-2001 PP ice time then looking at past PP points.
Jagr benefitted from being in the right place at the right time.

Genuinely don't understand your point though.. no one except Gretzky and maybe Howe would win an art ross against Lemieux.

 

[McFlash97]

Take a breath.

This season is a Mickey Mouse experiment and just because McDavid is putting up Fantasyland points, doesn't mean he's better than peak Sid and he certainly doesn't "blow him away".

That Mickey Mouse Experiment has McDavid lapping the league by 23 points. and almost at 90 points in barely 50 games.

 

[82Ninety42011]

That won't happen. 140 maybe, 130 I think he will do but even still I'm not sure if I would bet on it.

Scoring is up if there is a full season next year it's very possible. Him and Drai are a dynamic duo. Would I bet on it no but I'm not a betting guy. I do think he can do it though. Would be fun to see someone hit that level again regardless.

 

[authentic]

Scoring is up if there is a full season next year it's very possible. Him and Drai are a dynamic duo. Would I bet on it no but I'm not a betting guy. I do think he can do it though. Would be fun to see someone hit that level again regardless.

Anything beyond 130 would be unreal.

 

[nowhereman]

That Mickey Mouse Experiment has McDavid lapping the league by 23 points. and almost at 90 points in barely 50 games.

And Matthews is scoring at a 66 goal pace, even though his career average was 45 before that. The North has seen massive upticks in production and that's just a fact. Or do you think Tyler Toffoli is the next Mike Bossy?

McDavid has always struck me as the kind of player who salivates at the chance to rack up numbers against poor competition and actually turns it up against them. I'll reserve my judgement for the playoffs (which will still be skewed by intradivisional play).

 

[ManofSteel55]

how many people who voted anyone other Crosby has been watching hockey since Lemiuex actually played...

I have. McDavid > Crosby as an offensive player.

 

[Unspecified]

Mcdavid > jagr

 

[Zap Rowsdower]

He's phenomenal but don't lose sight of the fact that's he's beating up on the Senators and some other crap teams. He wouldn't have this many points with a normal schedule

 

[ManofSteel55]

He plays in the worst defensive league ever seen and he barely outproduces him and he's nowhere near as good defensively and he's also nowhere near as good a goalscorer.

2011 Crosby was like 2021 Matthew+McDavid+Couturier in one player, the perfect hockey player.

The bolded are all false.

 

[McFlash97]

And Matthews is scoring at a 66 goal pace, even though his career average was 45 before that. The North has seen massive upticks in production and that's just a fact. Or do you think Tyler Toffoli is the next Mike Bossy?

McDavid has always struck me as the kind of player who salivates at the chance to rack up numbers against poor competition and actually turns it up against them. I'll reserve my judgement for the playoffs (which will still be skewed by intradivisional play).

Or perhaps the North has players with higher ceilings and are the future of this league.

McDavid has racked up points against anybody and everybody throughout his career.

Why don't you pull out Crosbys production against the top 10 teams as comparison ?

Another blanket statement with 0 credibility.