Fill in the blank: McDavid is the best offensive player since _______

[blundluntman]

I think he falls somewhere between Jagr and Lemieux, I'd take him above peak Crosby and Ovi though.

It's hard to choose between him and Jagr bc I think Jagr is more versatile skill wise and a better goal scorer, but McDavid is a better playmaker, faster and controls the pace of the game equally well. I personally prefer McDavid's style of play but it's basically a wash if I'm being objective.

 

[DrDangles]

He's just passing Sid/Ovi, but he's not near Jagr yet.

 

[McFlash97]

He's just passing Sid/Ovi, but he's not near Jagr yet.

Jagr was a beast... but 97 is now at 3 Art Ross after this year and now is in his prime years. 2 behind. Lookout.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

And Matthews is scoring at a 66 goal pace, even though his career average was 45 before that. The North has seen massive upticks in production and that's just a fact. Or do you think Tyler Toffoli is the next Mike Bossy?

McDavid has always struck me as the kind of player who salivates at the chance to rack up numbers against poor competition and actually turns it up against them. I'll reserve my judgement for the playoffs (which will still be skewed by intradivisional play).

Matthews is no McDavid but he is an elite goalscorer and one of the best forwards in the game as is Marner.

 

[Soundwave]

And Matthews is scoring at a 66 goal pace, even though his career average was 45 before that. The North has seen massive upticks in production and that's just a fact. Or do you think Tyler Toffoli is the next Mike Bossy?

McDavid has always struck me as the kind of player who salivates at the chance to rack up numbers against poor competition and actually turns it up against them. I'll reserve my judgement for the playoffs (which will still be skewed by intradivisional play).

I mean if it's that much easier to score in the North division, then why aren't players like Gaudreau, Petterson (pre-injury), Schiefle, Drouin, M. Tkachuk, or even like Draisaitl also getting similar production bumps from previous years?

Kinda weird that seemingly only three forwards (McDavid, Matthews, Toffoli) have benefitted.

 

[Albatros]

Toronto and Edmonton in particular are dominating many more games than they normally would.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Toronto and Edmonton in particular are dominating many more games than they normally would.

Just gotta downplay McDavid at every chance hey?

 

[Albatros]

It's not like the Oilers have suddenly become a much better team, yet they're scoring .12 goals more and conceding .35 less per game. It's a lot of possession in their favor, not having to play any of the top teams in the league save for Toronto if you wish to count them as one.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

He's just passing Sid/Ovi, but he's not near Jagr yet.

Wierd since most have Sid/Ovi rated equal to or higher than Jagr.

 

[RattsSSV]

 

[missionAvs]

Since Lemieux but I voted since hockey was invented out of respect to the thread.

 

[Wheatking]

The weaker division argument gets exaggerated, but I'm okay with a narrative that relies on acting like the Flames and Canucks are minor league teams.

 

[Steven Toast]

And Matthews is scoring at a 66 goal pace, even though his career average was 45 before that. The North has seen massive upticks in production and that's just a fact. Or do you think Tyler Toffoli is the next Mike Bossy?

Matthews is also 23, right in the typical upswing in a production arc for a career. It should surprise absolutely no one he is better at scoring now than he was at 19.

Is the North significantly higher scoring than the other divisions? I doubt it, maybe provide some numbers for your claim.

Also 20-21 is tied for the lowest PPO/game in league history with 2.92. Imagine how many more points McDavid would have with more PPO.

McDavid has always struck me as the kind of player who salivates at the chance to rack up numbers against poor competition and actually turns it up against them. I'll reserve my judgement for the playoffs (which will still be skewed by intradivisional play).

This more describes Gretzky to me. He absolutely salivated at the opportunity to rack up the points. McDavid often takes the 3rd period off if hes gotten 3+ points and the game is more or less secured.

 

[authentic]

Wierd since most have Sid/Ovi rated equal to or higher than Jagr.

At the same time though, have Crosby and Ovechkin dominated more offensively? Does either have greater longevity? Do Crosby's all around game and Ovechkin's physicality vastly outweigh the dominant possession game Jagr had (even during his late 30s and early 40s he had extemely high corsi% and was always overwhelmingly a + player on some horrible defensive teams). Even his playoff stats are better than Ovechkin's and roughly equal with Crosby's during his prime, it's just he never managed to Win the Cup as the go to guy. I am not saying people are wrong for having Crosby and Ovechkin higher, but if anything Jagr may be underrated in an all time sense and during his peak/prime in comparison to Ovechkin and Crosby.

 

[authentic]

Matthews is also 23, right in the typical upswing in a production arc for a career. It should surprise absolutely no one he is better at scoring now than he was at 19.

Is the North significantly higher scoring than the other divisions? I doubt it, maybe provide some numbers for your claim.

Also 20-21 is tied for the lowest PPO/game in league history with 2.92. Imagine how many more points McDavid would have with more PPO.



This more describes Gretzky to me. He absolutely salivated at the opportunity to rack up the points. McDavid often takes the 3rd period off if hes gotten 3+ points and the game is more or less secured.

Completely accurate post all around (I can't like posts right now due to flaming). Also to expand on your point about Matthews, that guy is listing a 45 goal average before this season, at ages 19-22 as something he thinks supports his point, nevermind the fact that in his rookie season when he scored 40 goals (tied for 2nd) he was playing only 17:38 per game and just 2 minutes on the powerplay with rookie Brown/Hyman/Nylander as his linemates... (not to mention he scored 4 goals in his first NHL game lol). It would almost be weird if that type of player didn't later become a near 60 goal scorer with quality ice time and talent to play with.

 

[DrDangles]

Wierd since most have Sid/Ovi rated equal to or higher than Jagr.

Weird since neither dominated their peers offensively the way Jagr did. But to be fair, I expect the vast majority of posters here are under 30 and never actually got to witness peak Jagr game in and game out.

This thread is purely about offense, and Jagr has more consecutive Art Ross trophies than Ovi and Sid combined. The only guy Jagr was losing scoring races to during his prime was Lemieux.

 

[InfinityIggy]

If we are talking offensive skill I don’t have an issue saying he is the best since Gretzky.

He isn’t yet as complete as any of those guys though again, yet.

 

[Soundwave]

If we are talking offensive skill I don’t have an issue saying he is the best since Gretzky.

He isn’t yet as complete as any of those guys though again, yet.

Wayne Gretzky back checked like 3 times in his career, lol.

The 80s Oilers wholesale would jut leave Grant Fuhr on an island sometimes for periods at a time.

Those guys were incredible, great players obviously, but lets not also completely revise history. Wayne, Mario played 2 way hockey extremely sparingly.

Mario somehow managed to be only a +10 in a season where he scored 160 points, lol. Like wtf. To score that many points is amazing, but to only have a +10 rating to show for it probably shows he was on ice for a shit ton of goals against.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Mario somehow managed to be only a +10 in a season where he scored 160 points, lol. Like wtf. To score that many points is amazing, but to only have a +10 rating to show for it probably shows he was on ice for a shit ton of goals against.

113 that season. Both Mario and Wayne were on the ice for a lot of goals against in their primes. Typically well over 100 per season.

1989 is a funny one. Mario, Gretzky, and Yzerman all had monster offensive years of 199, 168, and 155 pts. Unheard of numbers from the leagues top 3 scorers. But all 3 of them were at the top of the league in goals against at 163, 169 (led league), and 166.

The Selke winner that season, Carbonneau, was only on the ice for 79 goals against that season. Likewise, a 2-way guy like Trottier was on the ice for a significantly lower amount of goals against than Gretzky and Mario in the 80s.

 

[Future GOAT]

Wayne Gretzky back checked like 3 times in his career, lol.

The 80s Oilers wholesale would jut leave Grant Fuhr on an island sometimes for periods at a time.

Those guys were incredible, great players obviously, but lets not also completely revise history. Wayne, Mario played 2 way hockey extremely sparingly.

Mario somehow managed to be only a +10 in a season where he scored 160 points, lol. Like wtf. To score that many points is amazing, but to only have a +10 rating to show for it probably shows he was on ice for a shit ton of goals against.

That's becoming a problem on this site. It started with Crosby and is now starting to bleed to other players.

 

[Mighty Makar]

Crosby

 

[Bank Shot]

Mario somehow managed to be only a +10 in a season where he scored 160 points, lol. Like wtf. To score that many points is amazing, but to only have a +10 rating to show for it probably shows he was on ice for a shit ton of goals against.

There were way more PPs in the 80s and 90s which might explain the plus/minus a little bit.

There are fewer PPs now than any time since they started tracking PP time.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

If we are talking offensive skill I don’t have an issue saying he is the best since Gretzky.

He isn’t yet as complete as any of those guys though again, yet.

Wow, that is some kind of praise.

 

[authentic]

Wow, that is some kind of praise.

Although Lemieux still exists.