Recalled/Assigned: Filip Forsberg (Update: Sent back to the Ads)

[ThirdManIn]

trotz will ruin forsberg. now go ahead and flame me for that..he was the 2nd rated forward in his draft year. and we are going to ruin him.

I made a lengthy post that uses both stats and the so-called "eye-test" to show Trotz doesn't ruin players with offensive ability. I'll try to find that, but the stats are readily available. In fact, I found them with hardly any effort while sitting at a computer in the library awaiting my shift to begin.

Bold: Let's please not flame anyone for anything. I'd like to relax a bit today, talk some hockey and go with my Dad to shoot his new AR-15. Don't ruin my relaxing, yet somehow still kind of violent, day

edit: here's the post. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=72239399&postcount=41

 

[Lif]

As a Leksand fan and someone who has followed Forsberg a few years it sadens me that he is not put in a position to succed. His skills are in the offensive zon, not in the defensive zone. Putting him in a defensive fourth Line is madness and bound to fail.
I was happy when he was traded to Nashville because I thought he would get more ice with the offensive guys than he would with the caps. Now im not so sure.

Please use him to His strengths or send him back to us.

 

[ThirdManIn]

We don't make that call. However, the NHL is an entirely different animal. He needs to be sent to the AHL if anything, not back to Europe.

 

[101st_fan]

i dont believe anyone here posted he is defensively detailed to put it lightly. but to put him in a position to fail playing 5 minutes with the grinders is a waste of FF's skills. he's young, he needs time in Milwaukee to be able to play for trotz the way he requires. what they are doing with his development at the moment is idiotic at best and doing nothing but hurting him. put him in a top 6 role with two way guys.. otherwise, what the hell are they accomplishing here?

He started his season in a top nine spot, did nothing offensively at even strength. He has one ES point (an assist last season) and is a -13 in 15 NHL games played. He earned the reduction in playing time with his inability to fill the most basic responsibilities in the defensive end and completely ineffective at ES offensively.

 

[Lif]

We don't make that call. However, the NHL is an entirely different animal. He needs to be sent to the AHL if anything, not back to Europe.

Yes, the NHL is better than the Swedish leagues. Forsberg is bad defensively regardless. He was so in Sweden and he looks the same in the NHL.
He's getting better though, and it's not as bad as it was.

Him getting sent back to Sweden is more a wish and I might have been sarcastic in my last post.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

He started his season in a top nine spot, did nothing offensively at even strength. He has one ES point (an assist last season) and is a -13 in 15 NHL games played. He earned the reduction in playing time with his inability to fill the most basic responsibilities in the defensive end and completely ineffective at ES offensively.

as I've said, his game needs improvement. but either let him find his game on a scoring line playing more than 5-10 mins a night or send him to Milwaukee and play on their 1st line

 

[Jarnberg]

So why acquire a player like Forsberg if he isn't strong defensively? If you aren't going to play him because of defensive lapses, why acquire or keep him on the roster? Yeah the guy isn't a strong defensive player, but you bring in a guy like that to generate offense. Yeah everyone's going to say he has struggled, but he's been shuffled around and already has a tight leash.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

So why acquire a player like Forsberg if he isn't strong defensively? If you aren't going to play him because of defensive lapses, why acquire or keep him on the roster? Yeah the guy isn't a strong defensive player, but you bring in a guy like that to generate offense. Yeah everyone's going to say he has struggled, but he's been shuffled around and already has a tight leash.

Because you want him to become a complete player. If he's not going to contribute offensively at even strength, which he hasn't, then he needs to be capable of not being a negative presence on the ice.

 

[Jarnberg]

Because you want him to become a complete player. If he's not going to contribute offensively at even strength, which he hasn't, then he needs to be capable of not being a negative presence on the ice.

Who we shooting for here as a complete player? David Legwand?

I'd also like to see the video of his mistakes which lead to all these goals since we're using trotting out plus/minus. We all know how useful of a stat that is.

Looks like another bad deal made by Poile.

 

[101st_fan]

He doesn't have to be strong defensively. He has to at least play his man which for a winger is not a complex assignment. He isn't doing even that right now. It shows in his +/- , it shows in the eye test when he's in the defensive zone, it shows in the time adjusted stats. It isn't that he isn't Datsyuk defensively ... it's that he looks lost in that end of the ice too often and NHL caliber players are taking advantage to the tune of -8 this season, -13 for his career.

Offensively, he's been decent on the PP. That's it. Some beautiful puck handling but nothing generated from it at even strength. Just short of 167 minutes of even strength play in his NHL career to date, one secondary assist. The talent is obvious but he needs to adjust to not only the size of North American ice but the speed and size of the NHL game and its players. Milwaukee is probably the best place for him right now but that is the staff's call. As long as he is on the NHL roster he needs to figure out how to use his talent to create opportunities for himself and linemates ... something he hasn't done yet at ES. It's been a lot of puck handling for the sake of puck handling.

 

[Jarnberg]

Plus/minus is a bad stat to judge a player.

Again, I'd like to see evidence where it was his fault those goals were scored.

 

[101st_fan]

Plus/minus is a bad stat to judge a player.

Again, I'd like to see evidence where it was his fault those goals were scored.

Are you not watching the games?

Go to NHL.com, bring up the highlight of the Kings first goal last night, watch Forsberg fail to play his man at the point, wide open shot leading to the rebound goal for Kopitar.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Plus/minus is a bad stat to judge a player.

Again, I'd like to see evidence where it was his fault those goals were scored.

In a vacuum, sure, +/- is a dubious stat. When you look at it in the context of the rest of the team, though, he sticks out pretty badly. Cullen is the next worst forward, at -4, while averaging over 4 minutes more per game. The next two forwards that have played in a top 6 role (Stalberg and Bourque), he is 6 worse than.

And why does it have to be all or nothing? Nobody wants to stifle his offensive game, but he needs earn his time on the ice, which he isn't doing on either end of the ice right now.

 

[101st_fan]

Plus/minus is a bad stat to judge a player.

Again, I'd like to see evidence where it was his fault those goals were scored.

What evidence are you using to support Forsberg's performance in any area at even strength?

 

[glenngineer]

Are you not watching the games?

Go to NHL.com, bring up the highlight of the Kings first goal last night, watch Forsberg fail to play his man at the point, wide open shot leading to the rebound goal for Kopitar.

So no one picking up Kopitar is his fault too? There are 5 guys on the ice responsible for goals against, not just one guy.

I find it laughable some are using plus minus to judge his play and in years past the same people would say you can't use that to judge players.

Some say he needs to learn to create for his teammates. He could feed the puck to Gaustad on a silver platter and he'd miss the net and Forsberg would be benched for it.

Do you bench a Patrick Kane who is not strong defensively? Does Ovie get benched for his lack of D? Yeah those guys produce more but would they if they were given 5 minutes of time with Gaustad and Spaling?

It's a joke. Get a guy with offensive ability and put him with grinders. Simply and utterly a joke. Teaching a kid to play a complete game is great but don't stifle a kid who has tremendous offensive ability. It's foolish. Also, put him on a line with guys who have offensive ability as well. It's maddening to watch.

 

[101st_fan]

So no one picking up Kopitar is his fault too? There are 5 guys on the ice responsible for goals against, not just one guy.

I find it laughable some are using plus minus to judge his play and in years past the same people would say you can't use that to judge players.

Some say he needs to learn to create for his teammates. He could feed the puck to Gaustad on a silver platter and he'd miss the net and Forsberg would be benched for it.

Do you bench a Patrick Kane who is not strong defensively? Does Ovie get benched for his lack of D? Yeah those guys produce more but would they if they were given 5 minutes of time with Gaustad and Spaling?

It's a joke. Get a guy with offensive ability and put him with grinders. Simply and utterly a joke. Teaching a kid to play a complete game is great but don't stifle a kid who has tremendous offensive ability. It's foolish. Also, put him on a line with guys who have offensive ability as well. It's maddening to watch.

Glenn,
The failure to stop Kopitar is separate from the defensive lapse by Forsberg. However, if Forsberg plays his man there is a reduced chance of a quality shot from the point. The thing is, Forsberg has a tendency of lapses in his end so far.

If you bothered to read what was actually written you would see I stated we don't need him to be "strong" defensively ... just to at least make an attempt to fill his role in the zone. 15 career games, on the ice for 14 ES goals ... it isn't an every now and then thing ... it is a constant that spans parts of two seasons now.

You say he could give the puck to Gaustad on a silver platter ... which based on his performance to date at even strength is doubtful ... yet Goose would mess it up? Hendricks has done more offensively than Forsberg while on the ice for five fewer goals allowed. Let that sink in ...

 

[PFL615]

FF has intercepted and stole a ton of pucks in the games i am watching. The Preds forwards never stay tight on the dmen. They give up shots from the point all the time. It happens a lot every game. How about the guys down low get a little better at beating their man down low and fighting harder for pucks rather than standing around conservatively?? Maybe it's because the Preds take away the middle and give the outside shot where their normal starting goaltender is strongest "rebound control" and is less effective for other teams.
FF will be fine..

 

[Paranoid Android]

Forsberg doesn't look quite ready to me. He's only 19, so another year of seasoning would be normal for a player his age.

 

[Hockeyfever]

So no one picking up Kopitar is his fault too? There are 5 guys on the ice responsible for goals against, not just one guy.

I find it laughable some are using plus minus to judge his play and in years past the same people would say you can't use that to judge players.

Some say he needs to learn to create for his teammates. He could feed the puck to Gaustad on a silver platter and he'd miss the net and Forsberg would be benched for it.

Do you bench a Patrick Kane who is not strong defensively? Does Ovie get benched for his lack of D? Yeah those guys produce more but would they if they were given 5 minutes of time with Gaustad and Spaling?

It's a joke. Get a guy with offensive ability and put him with grinders. Simply and utterly a joke. Teaching a kid to play a complete game is great but don't stifle a kid who has tremendous offensive ability. It's foolish. Also, put him on a line with guys who have offensive ability as well. It's maddening to watch.

Glen. The bolded part where you are stating that he is playing with grinders for and only five minutes has only happened once. This season so far Forseberg has played on Legwand's line which isn't a grinder line. His shooting percentage for this season is 5.6% which is fifth lowest on the team. He has no even strength points and is -8. And for what Smashville stated below in regard to the guys down low that is exactly where Fosberg is supposed to be as a winger and he isn't getting it done. FF might be fine sometime but he isn't right now.

 

[token grinder]

So no one picking up Kopitar is his fault too? There are 5 guys on the ice responsible for goals against, not just one guy.

I find it laughable some are using plus minus to judge his play and in years past the same people would say you can't use that to judge players.

Some say he needs to learn to create for his teammates. He could feed the puck to Gaustad on a silver platter and he'd miss the net and Forsberg would be benched for it.

Do you bench a Patrick Kane who is not strong defensively? Does Ovie get benched for his lack of D? Yeah those guys produce more but would they if they were given 5 minutes of time with Gaustad and Spaling?

It's a joke. Get a guy with offensive ability and put him with grinders. Simply and utterly a joke. Teaching a kid to play a complete game is great but don't stifle a kid who has tremendous offensive ability. It's foolish. Also, put him on a line with guys who have offensive ability as well. It's maddening to watch.

difference is they are proven PPG guys and aren't terrible od D. They understand the concept of not chasing pucks and staying within a mile of the point man.

Other thing FF is doing is trying to generate his own offense, ala Craig Smith the past couple years. It doesn't work unless you are a special almost generaltional talent, which he is not. FF will be fine, and I don't mind him on the 4th line provided he gets ample PP time.

 

[Shea Weber]

Is a Powerplay goal not a goal? I understand he needs to learn a little defense but to me a goal is a goal.

I have some some research and can confirm that a goal is, in fact, a goal.

 

[JamestheSame]

I have some some research and can confirm that a goal is, in fact, a goal.

Do you post on volnation as well? Someone over there uses the same av.

 

[Shea Weber]

Do you post on volnation as well? Someone over there uses the same av.

Yes, I do. Jestes311 on VN.

 

[Byrddog]

There is no reason to pile on 19 year old rookie the offensive productivity of this team. If the was a true 1st e be ad on the team it may be different. If we want to ***** and moan it should start with Wilson and Stall Berg. Most had the opnion they would take the team over the top, and so far have been a flop. Fosberg be fine in time hopefully but hes a rookie. These other imposters we have on the top lines are the issue Wilson 16 SOG, Stalberg a blistering 7 SOG and Smith 41 SOG(if he could hit a fat hog in the rump it would help) continue to be the problem.

 

[101st_fan]

There is no reason to pile on 19 year old rookie the offensive productivity of this team. If the was a true 1st e be ad on the team it may be different. If we want to ***** and moan it should start with Wilson and Stall Berg. Most had the opnion they would take the team over the top, and so far have been a flop. Fosberg be fine in time hopefully but hes a rookie. These other imposters we have on the top lines are the issue Wilson 16 SOG, Stalberg a blistering 7 SOG and Smith 41 SOG(if he could hit a fat hog in the rump it would help) continue to be the problem.

Based on the intelligible parts of your post, it would seem that Smith is doing a fine job of hitting a fat hog, or a goalie as a substitute, quite regularly. On top of that he has 2 ES goals, 5 ES assists (3 primary, 2 secondary). Your admitted hatred of Smith is showing and preventing any objectivity. Wilson's lack of ES goal scoring so far is troublesome ... but he at least is getting on the scoresheet with 4 ES assists (1 primary, 3 secondary). Stalberg is very disappointing so far.