Ference to have season-ending hip surgery.

[BoldNewLettuce]

Yep. Almost like Ference had advice from his agent to push this as long as they could. The only real wild card is if we have someone opt for arbitration, then that second late window would open.

A favor for a favor, Anders.

 

[Tw0Shoes]

Um, what evidence is there linking being fit to this hip injury. If that were the case Jaromir Jagr would be dead by now. Or Chris Chelios. The guy used to slog away on a bike in a sauna while drinking jugs of water.

EDIT: Nevermind, don't even bother answering. Or do. Whatever you feel like. Might be funny to see HF Boards fitness tips (TM). Can make a book out of it. Sort of like grumpy cat.

Pretty sure there was a reason that Chelios did that aside from fitness.

 

[doulos]

Pretty sure there was a reason that Chelios did that aside from fitness.

Aliens. I am sure it was aliens.

 

[shoop]

He's still on the payroll next year unless he goes the 'Pronger' way out, IE LTIR for the rest of his career, then takes a front office job with the Oilers.

Read more at: https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015...jury-reserve-as-it-pertains-to-nathan-horton/

So technically no, we don't gain any space, but in a different way, we do, because we'd be able to exceed the upper limit of the cap.

I don't actually think taking "a front office job with the Oilers" is in the CBA, but I may be wrong.

Reading what you posted, especially the stuff from Cap Geek, here is the way for the Oilers to maximize the cap relief from this situation.

I'll use an $80M cap max next year, because people like using round numbers.

Ference is scheduled to make 3.25M next year.

The Oilers would construct a roster with a cap hit of 83.25M in training camp. Put Ference on LTIR the last day of camp. They don't technically gain the 3.25M in additional cap room, but get 'relief' from Ference's cap hit.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Hopefully he has a full recovery, and then we buy him out.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Um, what evidence is there linking being fit to this hip injury. If that were the case Jaromir Jagr would be dead by now. Or Chris Chelios. The guy used to slog away on a bike in a sauna while drinking jugs of water.

EDIT: Nevermind, don't even bother answering. Or do. Whatever you feel like. Might be funny to see HF Boards fitness tips (TM). Can make a book out of it. Sort of like grumpy cat.

There is absolutely no link, other than the usual massive amount of conjecture that goes behind "I told you so" around these parts.

 

[Senor Catface]

I worked out with the Oilers back in the 80's if you want some fitness tips.

 

[McHaNugYakEbNurDra]

When I saw him lying on the ice and the puck go off his foot in the Detroit game (the last game he played), I was fairly certain it was season/career ending....but I didn't think hip injury

 

[Stoneman89]

Super guy and human, but, however will we manage without him on the ice. Crippling blow.

 

[rboomercat90]

I didn't realize he was actually hurt. I thought this was one of those situations where the team was creatively trying to hide a player that can't play anymore.

 

[nabob]

Hopefully he has a full recovery, and then we buy him out.

LTIR would be much better than a buy out. Can you buy a guy out who had a NMC?

 

[Supermassive]

hip hip hooray?

sorry


maybe overtraining isn't always such a great idea..

it's great for the lungs!
everything else not so much.

 

[Spawn]

LTIR would be much better than a buy out. Can you buy a guy out who had a NMC?

Yep. They just don't have to go on waivers first like normally happens with a buy out.

But you can't buy a player out who is injured. So as I mentioned earlier, if Ference is injured during the buy-out period they wont be able to buy him out. But if he became later on, we'd need to have him on the roster for the rest of the year.

So this is either potentially good news, or potentially bad news depending on what happens.

 

[Spawn]

I don't think that's how it works. Every season, teams have to put their players on the LTIR at the start of the season. When the season expires, injured players are taken off the LTIR. I remember Philly going through this constantly with Rathje. It also puts the sacrifice of a contract like Horton's for Toronto. That contract gets buried on LTIR, but the consequence is that every offseason Toronto has less flexibility because Horton's deal gets activated.

The only thing I'm not 100% on is whether the buyout window is after players get taken off LTIR. Even then, we have some RFAs. You can create a new buyout window like what we did with Schultz last summer. You could buy out the injured player then.

You can't buy out an injured player. It's why the Wild haven't been able to buy out Backstrom in either of the past two seasons. He's been hurt and not cleared to play.

If Ference wasn't cleared as healthy during the buy-out period he couldn't be bought out.

So basically (as horrible as this sounds) we better hope this injury stretches through next season as well, otherwise he'd be back on the roster taking up a spot.

 

[harpoon]

I could count on one hand the number of good games Andrew Ference played in an Oiler jersey.

He's done nothing but sit on his NMC and collect a check, unless you count charity work and insightful tweets as part of the reason the Oilers brought this player in. I wish he would just take his money and go away. Bringing him back to work in the organization in any capacity is not the sort of idea I would be in favor of at all.

 

[Fourier]

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2014/10/15/6951103/why-long-term-injured-reserve-is-not-good

The more I read about the cap and LTIR the crazier it gets

Everyone who wants Ference on LTIR for cap purposes should read this article.

I have posted this before but will repeat it here:

It is wrong to believe that a player on LTIR generates no cap hit from LTIR. That is one of the big misconceptions. The full cap hit counts and while there is relief this can have consequences. For example, for a team like the Oilers with a lot of bonuses built into their contracts having players on LTIR can be problematic. You don't get cap relief from bonuses from LTIR so if you have to pay out the bonuses that contract you put on LTIR could trigger a significant carryover that could easily be more than Ference's buyout.

And I will illustrate one other consequence that could actually play out for the Oilers if they are in playoff contention next year.

Suppose that the cap is $73M and that with Ference the Oilers were right at the cap next year to start the season. They put him on LTIR and now can add up to $3.25M. And suppose that they add Reinhart to replace him at $.863M. The Oilers are technically over the cap but they are compliant because of the LTIR. If they play that way until the trade deadline at that time they could add a player whose cap hit is up to $3.25-.863M= $2.387M because of the relief they get from Ference's LTIR.

Now lets assume that instead they buy him out and again start with Reinhart in place. The buyout costs them $1.08M and Reinhart cost them $.863M leaving them with roughly $1.3M in actual cap space. But at the deadline they would still have $1.3M to spend with only a fraction of the year left. In fact, this way they could add a player with a cap hit of roughly $6.2M and still be compliant. So by using the buyout you have effectively gained $4M in cap space at the deadline next year when a team like the Oliers could make a play for a big contract UFA.

If they are not right at the cap to start the year then the benefit with respect to both the overage penalties and space at the deadline is even larger than the scenario above.

 

[joestevens29]

Yep. They just don't have to go on waivers first like normally happens with a buy out.

But you can't buy a player out who is injured. So as I mentioned earlier, if Ference is injured during the buy-out period they wont be able to buy him out. But if he became later on, we'd need to have him on the roster for the rest of the year.

So this is either potentially good news, or potentially bad news depending on what happens.

I'd think a guy in Ference's position would waive his NMC to go on waivers. Odds are slim to none that he gets picked up, but usually guys don't waive because they can make up that third they lose on buyout on the open market.

He might also waive to give the Oilers a chance to trade him. Again I doubt we get anything of value, but you might get a similar contract in return on a guy you want to give a last chance.

It's really tough to say, but there is a potential one mil on the line for Ference. Regardless if he deserves it or not 1mil is still a lot of money.

 

[Fourier]

I don't think that's how it works. Every season, teams have to put their players on the LTIR at the start of the season. When the season expires, injured players are taken off the LTIR. I remember Philly going through this constantly with Rathje. It also puts the sacrifice of a contract like Horton's for Toronto. That contract gets buried on LTIR, but the consequence is that every offseason Toronto has less flexibility because Horton's deal gets activated.

The only thing I'm not 100% on is whether the buyout window is after players get taken off LTIR. Even then, we have some RFAs. You can create a new buyout window like what we did with Schultz last summer. You could buy out the injured player then.

At this point Ference is not on LTIR and probably won't be. The reason for this is that the Oilers are not over the cap with his salary included. He is on IR to allow an additional roster spot. But even if he was on LTIR, that would end the minute the Oiler's season is over. So during the off season he is not on LTIR regardless of his health situation. However, because he was on IR (or LTIR) at the end of the year he cannot be bought out unless he has medical clearance to play prior to the expiration of the buyout window.

This was the situation that got the Oilers in hot water with the Smyth trade. LA had intended to buyout Brule but could not because he did not have official clearance to play. Then they found out Fraser might also not be cleared for a buyout.

 

[doulos]

Everyone who wants Ference on LTIR for cap purposes should read this article.

I have posted this before but will repeat it here:

It is wrong to believe that a player on LTIR generates no cap hit from LTIR. That is one of the big misconceptions. The full cap hit counts and while there is relief this can have consequences. For example, for a team like the Oilers with a lot of bonuses built into their contracts having players on LTIR can be problematic. You don't get cap relief from bonuses from LTIR so if you have to pay out the bonuses that contract you put on LTIR could trigger a significant carryover that could easily be more than Ference's buyout.

And I will illustrate one other consequence that could actually play out for the Oilers if they are in playoff contention next year.

Suppose that the cap is $73M and that with Ference the Oilers were right at the cap next year to start the season. They put him on LTIR and now can add up to $3.25M. And suppose that they add Reinhart to replace him at $.863M. The Oilers are technically over the cap but they are compliant because of the LTIR. If they play that way until the trade deadline at that time they could add a player whose cap hit is up to $3.25-.863M= $2.387M because of the relief they get from Ference's LTIR.

Now lets assume that instead they buy him out and again start with Reinhart in place. The buyout costs them $1.08M and Reinhart cost them $.863M leaving them with roughly $1.3M in actual cap space. But at the deadline they would still have $1.3M to spend with only a fraction of the year left. In fact, this way they could add a player with a cap hit of roughly $6.2M and still be compliant. So by using the buyout you have effectively gained $4M in cap space at the deadline next year when a team like the Oliers could make a play for a big contract UFA.

If they are not right at the cap to start the year then the benefit with respect to both the overage penalties and space at the deadline is even larger than the scenario above.

Great insight, thanks!

 

[doulos]

I worked out with the Oilers back in the 80's if you want some fitness tips.

Nice, you can write the first chapter of the HF Oilers fitness book!

 

[The Nuge]

Everyone who wants Ference on LTIR for cap purposes should read this article.

I have posted this before but will repeat it here:

It is wrong to believe that a player on LTIR generates no cap hit from LTIR. That is one of the big misconceptions. The full cap hit counts and while there is relief this can have consequences. For example, for a team like the Oilers with a lot of bonuses built into their contracts having players on LTIR can be problematic. You don't get cap relief from bonuses from LTIR so if you have to pay out the bonuses that contract you put on LTIR could trigger a significant carryover that could easily be more than Ference's buyout.

And I will illustrate one other consequence that could actually play out for the Oilers if they are in playoff contention next year.

Suppose that the cap is $73M and that with Ference the Oilers were right at the cap next year to start the season. They put him on LTIR and now can add up to $3.25M. And suppose that they add Reinhart to replace him at $.863M. The Oilers are technically over the cap but they are compliant because of the LTIR. If they play that way until the trade deadline at that time they could add a player whose cap hit is up to $3.25-.863M= $2.387M because of the relief they get from Ference's LTIR.

Now lets assume that instead they buy him out and again start with Reinhart in place. The buyout costs them $1.08M and Reinhart cost them $.863M leaving them with roughly $1.3M in actual cap space. But at the deadline they would still have $1.3M to spend with only a fraction of the year left. In fact, this way they could add a player with a cap hit of roughly $6.2M and still be compliant. So by using the buyout you have effectively gained $4M in cap space at the deadline next year when a team like the Oliers could make a play for a big contract UFA.

If they are not right at the cap to start the year then the benefit with respect to both the overage penalties and space at the deadline is even larger than the scenario above.

The only kicker there is that the 6 million dollar player would be a rental, which isn't something we're going to be looking for, and we add 1.08 to the next years salary cap. We don't have much money coming off the books next year, and we need to resign Draisaitl. We're going to need all of Ference's caphit available

 

[Fourier]

The only kicker there is that the 6 million dollar player would be a rental, which isn't something we're going to be looking for, and we add 1.08 to the next years salary cap. We don't have much money coming off the books next year, and we need to resign Draisaitl. We're going to need all of Ference's caphit available

That rental could be Brent Burns for example. And the trade may be made with a contract in place for the following year. Or you could be getting paid to eat some other teams bad contract so that they can make another move. The point is you just don't know what doors you may be closing.

There is also the bonus overage issue to consider. If Ference's contract is on the books it makes an overage due to bonuses for McDavid, Draisailt and Nurse much more likely. Ference's deal could trigger overages that exceed the buyout carryover.

 

[McTrashBoat]

Speaking of bonuses, how are we on that front? Who's eligible and going to get it?

 

[doulos]

Speaking of bonuses, how are we on that front? Who's eligible and going to get it?

I believe McDavid, Draisatil, Pakarinin, Klefbom, and Nurse all have potential of getting bonuses, but no idea on what they need to do to hit them,

 

[I am the Liquor]

I worked out with the Oilers back in the 80's if you want some fitness tips.

Do you smoke before or after cardio?