Fault: Trotz or Poile

[NoNecksCurse]

We started the week as the 6th worst team in the league. After this week we're still the 6th worst team in the league and the 6th worst team in a 30 team league is a bad team.

lol this. we're bad and no signs of improving in the next year or two

 

[I Will Son]

3 goals in the last 4 games...

Weber, a d-Man is our point leader..

Our forwards have zero creativity and finishing ability. It's sad considering what sport they play and they have done it their whole life. Even sadder that we have never been able to get a game breaking forward.

 

[roseyc]

If you honestly think back-to-back down years means you're right down there with what we went through up here...

Frankly, I think right now the Preds can be expected to be rough for a little while longer, but there's at least some future hope in all the right places. The kids on the blueline are right on schedule, and most of a decent forward corps is maturing in Milwaukee. And depending on how the draft goes, that could get even more of a boost.

Yeah, the team's in bad shape at the moment, and yes, a large part of it is due to a massive miscalculation by Poile this past offseason. But pretending you're anywhere near that level of perpetual misery is as outlandish and absurd as Jackets fans claiming we're Cup contenders.

They are cup contenders and they have the type of team that the Predators envisioned Hard to play against and a few finishers and no superstars. Just like Edmonton when you don't have good organization you don't win. But even great teams have their run and then you have to replan or replace or start over. The window was open for the Predators and now it's closed. The payoff was Radulov's revenge. The Cup dream was over There is no air in the Bldg. The fanbase is exhausted and the players looked confused and at this stage of the season. The coaches and gm say their rehearsed speech which rings hollow. The local media doesn't report on them ....oh! they never have. There you are. No playoffs!!! Our original first round pick gets to finally live his dream. How ironic! We still have Trotz oh boy! We got Rinne back and Legwand left. We got grinders We have a good youn g defense with a great defenseman in Weber. We should be in the playoffs. We have no offensive plan at all. The offseason for Poile was his worst the botched backup I think is the main reason for us not making the playoffs and this season was worse that getting a puck in his eye. I miss seeing Horacek this year. I think that and from what I heard that Horacek was the real coach maybe he would have made a difference who knows. I don't see no difference with Housley if fact they're worse looking. So I think the bldg needs new air in it we don't need to restart just replace the coach and the gm and let the new ones decide what kind of talent we have here before it becomes worthless. We owe to Rinne and Weber to see this playout they need offensive help and a new coach.

 

[PredsV82]

We started the week as the 6th worst team in the league. After this week we're still the 6th worst team in the league and the 6th worst team in a 30 team league is a bad team.

Bullcrap. If you can't see the difference between a team like us, and the really bad teams in the league, then you just don't want to look. Where do you think we would be had Rinne been healthy all year?

 

[predfan98]

Bullcrap. If you can't see the difference between a team like us, and the really bad teams in the league, then you just don't want to look. Where do you think we would be had Rinne been healthy all year?

I think last night showed me where we would be if Rinne had been healthy all year. Exactly where we are now, basically.

.500 hockey is basically where most teams that don't make the playoffs are.........

 

[predfan98]

We started the week as the 6th worst team in the league. After this week we're still the 6th worst team in the league and the 6th worst team in a 30 team league is a bad team.

I agree......

 

[ladypredsfan]

I believe this team has become or is becoming an NHL joke. How many professional sports teams in the country would have let their coach stay 15 years with the records the Preds have? None! Trotz and Poile should have been gone 8-10 years ago.

 

[PredsV82]

edit: I believe some posters here are spoiled on success, and have forgotten what a truly bad team is like. I am a Cincinnati Reds fan so Im used to years of true suckitude between spurts of competitiveness. There hast been a truly bad hockey team in Nashville since 2000-2001.

If you want to change coaches, fine, but remember you had either better get someone who can coach this bunch of players and get more out of them than Trotz, or else be prepared for a couple of truly bad seasons while we try to play uptempo hockey with this lineup.

If you want to change GM's, thats fine too, but remember you aren't going to turn over the whole team in one summer.

I will reiterate, , compared to the other teams who are rebuilding, we are in FAR better shape than they are, and i for one can see it shaping up. I am not going to bail after 1.4 seasons of mediocre hockey. I have no problem seeing how the next two years go.

 

[predfan98]

When Poile signed all those players last summer I still gave him the benefit of the doubt.
After seeing how they've played this year, I just can't.
And I don't know what to put on Trotz and what to put on Poile about the abysmal showing of our forwards this year.

Yes, there are some bright signs........Ellis, Smith, Jones.......

I'm not for change for changes sake, but I just can't put this whole season under the category of "Pekka was out."

if the players aren't responding or the "system" of play is flawed........something should be done. I don't know what that something is. I think our longevity with coach and gm have been good overall

 

[Detelethisaccount]

I think something happened during the whole Radulov curfew ordeal and several players have lost respect for Trotz. Just seems like since that all went down so has the effort level. Except for the goalies this year, there really isn't that much less talent on this roster than in years past they just aren't performing as well.

With the group of young forwards we have now is the time to make the move before they start hitting Free Agency. If we fired Trotz and promoted Housley and have him bring in some offensive minded assistants (perhaps even a Swedish one?) then try to trade Fish/Cullen/Goose for picks/prospects and to clear room for Forsberg, Watson, Jarnkrok, and we will be picking somewhere in the top 10 this year, so there is potentially another youngster to make room for. Let them get their lumps next year, and get another top 15 pick then be ready to dominate in 15/16.

 

[triggrman]

lol this. we're bad and no signs of improving in the next year or two

There are signs.

The defensive corps is awesome, probably the best unit we've had from top to bottom.

Obviously, there's a lot of offense in Milwaukee.

 

[PredsV82]

I believe this team has become or is becoming an NHL joke. How many professional sports teams in the country would have let their coach stay 15 years with the records the Preds have? None! Trotz and Poile should have been gone 8-10 years ago.

You're right! I mean, just look at how well Buffalo is doing after finally getting rid of that joke of a hanger on Lindy Ruff... and you know, its not like Ruff went to a new team and has them in a playoff position or anything...

 

[glenngineer]

Okay. Now let's see how many the Preds were in a position to actually get.

2006:
Toews, Backstrom, Kessel: All picked long before Nashville would have picked.
Giroux: Picked just before the Preds could have picked. (The Nashville 1st had been traded to Washington at the deadline.)

2007:
Kane, Couture: Picked long before Nashville ever could have.
Benn: Picked 10 picks after the closest Preds pick... and was the second of three picks by Dallas in that round.

I'd say all seven realistically qualify as "unreachable".

Oh, and while we're at it... of those seven, how many of them have been on teams competitive enough to win a Cup? I count three, and it's that high only because two of them are on the same team.

Trust me, hon. You don't want to play this shoulda-coulda-woulda-drafted game with me. I've had LOTS of practice; it's one of those ancillary benefits of cheering for a team that's sucked for more than just two years.

You want to play the game, let's go. I usually enjoy your posts so I'll start there. Where you have gone with this is way off track though. I'll take you back through the discussion with 101 and where you have taken it and that wasn't the point.

First off I said we have never drafted and developed a great forward, a game changer, someone that gets on the ice, puts the team on his back and makes the play that you clamor for and the crowd is in amazement that they just scored the goal or made the play to tie or win the game. 15 years we have been unable to do it. We have drafted and developed some of the best in net and on D, there is no questioning that but up front, it's abysmal.

101 countered with the type of player I'm talking about happens in a draft about once a year in which you need top picks to land those sorts of guys.

I countered 101 with 7 guys from 2 drafts in 2005 and 2006 that fell in to the category of game changers. Some went early, some went later in the first round and then you had a guy like Benn who was taken very late in a draft. The point being, you can land and develop top players in this league at any point in the draft. The other guys I mentioned in my post were also very good forwards that have made a nice NHL career so far. I did not include them in the game changers but mentioned them as top 6 type players. They are in no way game changers but solid players. So I did research, listed two tiers of players but then narrowed it down to the list of 7 that falls in to the category the discussion is based around.

You have interjected and said the Preds couldn't have drafted them. That's true but that wasn't the point of the discussion, the point was to refute what 101 said about 1 game changer being available per draft and I came up with 7 in 2 years.

You also interjected and said some of the guys I listed were on par with Erat and while that's true, I never listed them as game changers. They are good NHL players. They are all top 6 guys but they are in no way, shape or form the game changers we have been unable to develop.

I'm not talking about what the Preds could've done or should've done. I never said the Preds should've drafted any of these guys or could've drafted these guys. I'm not delusional enough to go back and think that we could've changed history and taken certain guys in a draft from 10 years ago. If I had that power or foresight, I'd be an NHL GM with a gazillion Stanley Cups to my name. This was also something you brought in to the discussion which was once again never the point.

You also made mention of where those guys went to and if the teams were competitive or playoff contenders year in and year out. Also, not part of the original point but while we're at it, how many teams have won a Cup or Cups without some sort of great, if not elite talent up front? That is at the crux of my original post. A team can have all the goaltending and defense in the world but if they don't have the balance up front and ability to put the puck in the net on a consistent basis, they will never succeed. This is where I feel the Preds have sorely missed on many levels and after 15 years of trying, a different direction in my opinion is warranted. Even if the GM and/or coach that comes in and can only draft and develop forwards, we've already got the D and goalies in place for the next bunch of years and if they're smart enough to realize that, they've already got a leg or two up and can build from a great foundation. Poile and Trotz had the foundation, tried to go up the mountain, it didn't work and we're going down the other side of the mountain. So either we keep sliding down the mountain or we get a new trail boss.

And if all we have to go on is that our best forwards have been Erat, Hornqvist and Legwand that's a pretty bad track record. No offense to them as players but in 15 years, that's not saying much.

 

[PFL615]

edit: I believe some posters here are spoiled on success, and have forgotten what a truly bad team is like. I am a Cincinnati Reds fan so Im used to years of true suckitude between spurts of competitiveness. There hast been a truly bad hockey team in Nashville since 2000-2001.

If you want to change coaches, fine, but remember you had either better get someone who can coach this bunch of players and get more out of them than Trotz, or else be prepared for a couple of truly bad seasons while we try to play uptempo hockey with this lineup.

If you want to change GM's, thats fine too, but remember you aren't going to turn over the whole team in one summer.

I will reiterate, , compared to the other teams who are rebuilding, we are in FAR better shape than they are, and i for one can see it shaping up. I am not going to bail after 1.4 seasons of mediocre hockey. I have no problem seeing how the next two years go.

As a fellow lifelong Reds fan 1990 seems so long ago....

 

[PredsV82]

As a fellow lifelong Reds fan 1990 seems so long ago....

and for me, I had to wait for 1990 from the Big Red Machine… one decent season in the 20 years between 1979 and 1999….

Ive often wondered if Preds fans would accept 19 crappy, non playoff seasons if in that 20th year they won the Cup. I wouldn't trade the 1990 WS title for anything, but the ten years on either side of it were BAD

 

[PFL615]

and for me, I had to wait for 1990 from the Big Red Machine… one decent season in the 20 years between 1979 and 1999….

Ive often wondered if Preds fans would accept 19 crappy, non playoff seasons if in that 20th year they won the Cup. I wouldn't trade the 1990 WS title for anything, but the ten years on either side of it were BAD

Dang Grandpa.. Haha you have been around for a bit.

 

[adsfan]

Dang Grandpa.. Haha you have been around for a bit.

Hey; watch it! I remember the 1970s Reds.

 

[adsfan]

There are signs.

The defensive corps is awesome, probably the best unit we've had from top to bottom.

Obviously, there's a lot of offense in Milwaukee.

The last 4 games with 25 goals. The previous 15 games had 29 goals scored.
I hope that the offense continues like that, but what are the chances of 6.25 a game?

 

[Armourboy]

The last 4 games with 25 goals. The previous 15 games had 29 goals scored.
I hope that the offense continues like that, but what are the chances of 6.25 a game?

Yeah that comment has me scratching my head too a bit. Ok you got Iron Hook and Forsberg that are projected to be top 6 guys, but the rest are all considered to 3 or 4 th line guys on the NHL level.

I look at it and see with that maybe we are close, but we still need a couple more guys, which means Poile actually drafting a top 6 forward, or getting one in free agency or a trade, none of which has happened more than once in a blue moon.

Ok we've got great defense and a goalie, but over the last decade we've always had fairly decent goalies and a defense. Outside of one or two years all we've ever had was passable offenses and maybe thats all we need, but it hasn't worked yet.

Is the team in a better position to make the playoffs again in the next couple of years? Probably. The Stanley Cup? Not sold on that yet. I don't know, maybe we get lucky and Weber sits down and talks to some guys and convinces them to play with this defense, goalie, and coaching staff. Maybe Poile does it. Maybe the players in the league see the team and realize all it needs is some forwards and we have a great shot.

Still a lot of ifs and hopes floating around for me to feel certain about anything.

 

[jwhouk]

The thing is, it's always easier to change coaches than GM's.

 

[PredsV82]

The thing is, it's always easier to change coaches than GM's.

and easier to change either of those than to revamp a roster, which is why coaching changes alone rarely make much difference on a franchise, at least immediately.

Im certainly not ready to blow things up. I am willing to see what transpires this summer regarding our forward corps. With some improvement up front we should be a playoff contender next year, and a solid playoff team the year after. If that doesnt happen, I think everyone, including the owners, will be ready for a change.

 

[predfan98]

Here is a quote from Sutter.....just curious how people see it and how it relates to Preds.

"Sutter says the Kings’ seemingly defend-first game is a “misconception The big thing in today’s game is you have to be able forecheck and backcheck, and you have to have the puck. You can’t give the puck up. We don’t play in our zone, so there’s not much defending.”

“I’ve coached in three decades now and this stuff where they said Marian had to play in Jacques’s system is a bunch of bull-crap. The game’s changed. They think there’s defending in today’s game. Nah, it’s how much you have the puck. Teams that play around in their own zone they they’re defending but they’re generally getting scored on or taking face-offs and they need a goalie to stand on his head if that’s the way they play,” said Sutter.

article was about gaborik. http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2014/03/09/gaborik-is-the-gun-the-la-kings-need-in-their-holster/

 

[jwhouk]

Here is a quote from Sutter.....just curious how people see it and how it relates to Preds.

"Sutter says the Kings’ seemingly defend-first game is a “misconception The big thing in today’s game is you have to be able forecheck and backcheck, and you have to have the puck. You can’t give the puck up. We don’t play in our zone, so there’s not much defending.â€

“I’ve coached in three decades now and this stuff where they said Marian had to play in Jacques’s system is a bunch of bull-crap. The game’s changed. They think there’s defending in today’s game. Nah, it’s how much you have the puck. Teams that play around in their own zone they they’re defending but they’re generally getting scored on or taking face-offs and they need a goalie to stand on his head if that’s the way they play,†said Sutter.

article was about gaborik. http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2014/03/09/gaborik-is-the-gun-the-la-kings-need-in-their-holster/

...but he might as well have been talking about us.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I understand this is a heated thread with lots of frustration being vented, but lets keep the name calling and personal shots out of it. Use the report button instead of replying to flaming. Thank you.

 

[PredsV82]

Here is a quote from Sutter.....just curious how people see it and how it relates to Preds.

"Sutter says the Kings’ seemingly defend-first game is a “misconception The big thing in today’s game is you have to be able forecheck and backcheck, and you have to have the puck. You can’t give the puck up. We don’t play in our zone, so there’s not much defending.”

“I’ve coached in three decades now and this stuff where they said Marian had to play in Jacques’s system is a bunch of bull-crap. The game’s changed. They think there’s defending in today’s game. Nah, it’s how much you have the puck. Teams that play around in their own zone they they’re defending but they’re generally getting scored on or taking face-offs and they need a goalie to stand on his head if that’s the way they play,” said Sutter.

article was about gaborik. http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2014/03/09/gaborik-is-the-gun-the-la-kings-need-in-their-holster/

hes right about puck possession essentially negating the need for forwards to play defense, but not everyone has a team that can keep the puck indefinitely. Teams that can possess the puck most of the time do well, but thats not exactly a revelation or a new concept.