Fault: Trotz or Poile
- Thread starter Jarnberg
- Start date
So Trotz gets partial credit for Weber having the best slapshot in the league?
Gnashville
HFBoards Hall of Famer
Honestly both are stuck in a 1997 line of thinking. Neither believe that championships can be won with offense. Poile never takes a risk in the draft. Trotz benches players for not playing defense, and does not develop young talented players.
Byrddog
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2007
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Let me put it out like this. I was operations manager over the years I to evaluate skill sets and assign workload to employees strength this is what coaching is. On a number of occasions HR hired an employee that could not read. Yes this I real life and true, so according to what some of you are saying as a coach I should teach these employees to read.
The example is not a lot different. When player makes it to the NHL level. The coaching responsibilities become teambuilding and in hockey pairing players were they compliment each other. In lower levels coaches must teach the game sure but not at the NHL level.
The example is not a lot different. When player makes it to the NHL level. The coaching responsibilities become teambuilding and in hockey pairing players were they compliment each other. In lower levels coaches must teach the game sure but not at the NHL level.
Nope. Developing young players and putting them in position to succeed is what coaching is about.
Using your thought process; I hire people I think have the right tools and then train them to do the job that needs to be done.
Using your thought process; I hire people I think have the right tools and then train them to do the job that needs to be done.
Byrddog
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2007
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So you will hire with no experience with out credentials or similar job experience and expect they can be coached or trained to be productive and efficient. I hope you not in the healthcare biz.
jwhouk
Former Cheesehead, Always a Preds Fan
Trotz has been here all the years of the Predators. Because Poile has been given the reigns to the franchise and he has done a dutiful job. He built the franchise along with the market and the market is similar to what the club is. There is no media in this town that knows anything about hockey. Poile/Trotz tells us fans/ media and casual fans and anybody just out for the night how to think. Honestly they know more about their philosphy than general public knowledge know about the sport. But when the playoffs began then the Canadian Media and the National come around and notice the flaws in their philosphy. The game 5 loss against the Blackhawks would have gotten Trotz fired in a Canadian market. The Phoenix series would have gotten him fired in any market except here. That team was our best chance to the finals. Phoenix was done after the series just like the Preds were done after their series with the Wings. But what if ...and what now. Weber is now 2 down now in the 7 year deal and Rinne is 2 down in his deal. Our offense is bad and Trotz scrathes the defense. Poile hasn't the greatest predictor. But the one thing he was right Nick Spaling is now in our top 6. I think Trotz and Poile have had their moments but their time has come and gone.
Yes. The last one I hired and trained is now a manager in Atlanta. I find people with the right tools and develop their skills. It's not like we are asking Trotz to turn basketball players into hockey players.
- Aug 13, 2007
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by the time you reach then NHL if you haven't figured out fundamentals like skating and passing and winning face-offs, whose responsibility is that to see that it improves? Is that even the kind of thing you can work on during a season?
I remember way back when, Adam Hall and Hartnell both got sent to skating school over the summer… seems like that is the only time to really work on individual skills would be the summer… I would think training camp and in season practices have to be basically about learning the system, figuring out team chemistry and such… there just doesn't seem like there is any time for individual instruction..
I remember way back when, Adam Hall and Hartnell both got sent to skating school over the summer… seems like that is the only time to really work on individual skills would be the summer… I would think training camp and in season practices have to be basically about learning the system, figuring out team chemistry and such… there just doesn't seem like there is any time for individual instruction..
I didn't say that Trotz had to teach him new skills, he just has to develop those raw skills into NHL talent. If he didn't, rookies would never improve.
Then why are there specialist who are better at the dot than others why detroit have always been a good passing team. Because of the coaching philosphy from the staff through all of the organization.
So Seth Jones isn't going to develop any more? Of course he is, and Trotz will help his development.
Horrible example. How many managers are there in the world? Millions?
How many NHL players are there in the world? About 600.
These guys have an innate skills at a young age. Unless you tell me Trotz improved/developed/trained Weber's slapshot, most of what you are saying doesn't apply to NHL players.
Offense can be honed a little bit, but you can't teach someone without innate offensive talent to be a offense player. That's what being asked of Trotz with the quality of players Poile gets in here. This isn't the Army/Navy/etc where 100s of thousands can be trained like robots to do a job.
RCola88
Registered User
There is always room to grow your offensive game. Heck theres always room to grow your game, even for Crosby, and coaches have a large part in that.
Look at other teams, why do the Hawks, Rangers, Bruins, and so on get more out of their forwards offensively? Like the Hawks with Shaw, and Saad. The bruins with Marchand and Riley Smith, the list can go on. The Preds haven't ever drafted our received a young forward, and polished his game to where they live up to potential. (Besides Hornqvist, which he just stands in front of the net). They usually lose younger forwards and the go on contributing more on another team.
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Here's the difference-- Jones has innate rare skill that can be improved with experience. Skill that can't be taught-- and he's one of the few players we've had with that skill. Defense can be taught more than offense, but Jones has another level of talent. Just like Weber's slap shot was not created by Trotz.
RCola88
Registered User
Never said defense, everyone knows what the Preds can do with the D and goal tending, but that proven ability has gotten us nowhere.
RCola88
Registered User
Like I said, many teams have forward prospects who flourish for their team from the get go, or very early on. Not one forward has come in and stuck with this franchise, besides Radulov. If its been going on for 15+ and not one forward has risen to potential, that is not good.
- Aug 13, 2007
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but again, how and when does this happen? are the coaches actually spending time on individual instruction during the season? and is it Trotz or the assistants job?
It's pretty easy-- No one has had the potential to be a top line forward in the league. Expect Radulov and he was on that path.
RCola88
Registered User
Like I said, a guy like Marchand and Smith in Boston, had no intentions of being in their top 6 ON A CUP CONTENDER, and play extremely well. Things like that, is what this organization has not had and it will stay that way with Trotz, defense + two way forwards will not win you a damn championship. Its apparent, and that's why Trotz needs to go, Poile is atleast trying to add offense, then Trotz buries them.
- Aug 13, 2007
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we are all in agreement here, I think. We haven't had a "natural" offensive talent in the mold of a Kane or Crosby or Ovechkin, ever, except for Radulov.
the question becomes, is it Poiles fault for not finding a superstar outside the top 5, or is it just the unfortunate side effect of our never ending moderate success that had us drafting in the teens for several years in a row.
(How different would our fortunes have been had only Florida totally shat the bed in 07-08 and we ended up with Stamkos)
Hartnell, Hornqvist scored just as much as Marchard playing with less talented linemates.
Forseberg, Jarnonk aren't even true scorers in the AHL. You are dreaming if you think they should come to the NHL and light it up.
