Fantasy GM Thread | Part XII: Free Agency Looms

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Shellshockedfrom2011

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Aug 9, 2021
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To me..it comes down to whether Rathbone can be an all situational type d-man (top 4 ,PK and PP).?..If he can, we keep him..

Also, it depends on OEL..how does he play..?..There's no point in moving JR if OEL starts falling off a cliff ..(as he gets older).

I see where you're coming from ..but moving JR would be a last ditch resort..IMO

I could be wrong but I don't see him reaching his full potential unless he's able to get on the first PP unit. That won't happen any time soon barring Hughes getting injured.

The reality is that OEL should outplay him. If OEL doesn't bounce back or further regresses then we have a 13M bottom pair and still no pair that can shutdown top opposition. This team is going no where with that defense.

I think that a lineup of

OEL-shutdown RD (Should be a true shutdown pairing if OEL is motivated)
Hughes-Hamonic
Juloevi-Poolman

Is better than

OEL-Poolman (meh top pairing)
Hughes-Hamonic
Rathbone-Myers

Remember that Hughes has insane endurance and can easily log a ton of minutes. The shutdown pairing should also play a ton of minutes. So that doesn't leave a lot of TOI for the bottom pairing.

Ditching Myers for a cheaper (and better) RD would also allow us to pick up an additional player at the deadline (maybe another center for the third line to push Dickenson to the 3LW or 4C).

If the defense can actually play defense then this is a pretty good team. As it stands, I don't think it can. This type of deal could fix that. If other GMs think as highly as Rathbone as this sub does then we could possibly get a very good prospect in addition to a very good RD.
 

4Twenty

Registered User
Dec 18, 2018
9,987
11,831
Yawn at every post in this thread being about ditching Myers. Boring. Not happening. Organization loves him. He was free to go anywhere not long ago and Vancouver had a free run. Nothings changed but the amount of 2 minute shifts the man plays.
 
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bertuzzi2bure

Registered User
Apr 14, 2021
406
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Hughes + Myers

for

Hischier, Smith and Severson



Miller Pete Boeser
Hog Horvat Garland
Pearson Hischier Pod
Motte Dickinson Sutter

OEL Severson
Smith Hamonic
Rathbone Poolman
 

bertuzzi2bure

Registered User
Apr 14, 2021
406
418
Why would Jersey trade 2 young former first rounders for another first rounder who struggled last year and some garbage?

not sure what 1st rounders has to do with anything. hischier wouldnt go top 5 in a re-do

myers isnt garbage. overpaid? sure. this board is overly sour on him.

nj would overpay to have all 3 brothers. the marketing campaign behind that would be massive.
 

AwesomeInTheory

A Christmas miracle
Aug 21, 2015
4,267
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not sure what 1st rounders has to do with anything. hischier wouldnt go top 5 in a re-do

Perceived value. Hockey GMs place a premium on draft pedigree. You can argue whether it is right or wrong to do. But they do it.

myers isnt garbage. overpaid? sure. this board is overly sour on him.

He is garbage largely because of his contract.

nj would overpay to have all 3 brothers. the marketing campaign behind that would be massive.

This is why the PR and marketing team doesn't make hockey trades.
 

Catamarca Livin

Registered User
Jul 29, 2010
4,908
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Myers for Drouin? Myers would be decent with Chiarot on the 3rd paring and Drouin is way easier to buyout.
Trade for Drouin? He was unable to play last year. The Canucks protected Myers they will not trade him for a buy out. Myers is an nhl player Drouin wasn't last year. Myers could be easily traded with retention if it came to that. I thought he played well in the second half last year. He was not team's problem, Hopefully better forwards get him and other d out of their zone more.
 

Melvin

21/12/05
Sep 29, 2017
15,198
28,055
Montreal, QC
I love the argument that "the player is not that bad, only his contract is bad," as if that matters like there is some meaningful way to separate the two things. Like, yes, Myers for $1M would be great, but that's not a thing that exists so it's irrelevant. Myers and his contract are inextricably linked until such time the contract expires.
 

VanillaCoke

Registered User
Oct 30, 2013
25,423
11,868
I love the argument that "the player is not that bad, only his contract is bad," as if that matters like there is some meaningful way to separate the two things. Like, yes, Myers for $1M would be great, but that's not a thing that exists so it's irrelevant. Myers and his contract are inextricably linked until such time the contract expires.
This.
Blanket blind dumb justification for anything.

Sign Hughes for 11m, its okay Hughes is calder finalist only his contract sucks..
 

vanuck

Now with 100% less Benning!
Dec 28, 2009
16,803
4,035
Honestly I wish we'd taken a flyer on Bunting if possible. I thought SEA might make him their pick from the Yotes, and feel like he has a chance to solidify himself as a solid contributor somewhere in the middle-6 for cheap next year.

Why the Leafs believe in Michael Bunting
 

RobertKron

Registered User
Sep 1, 2007
15,516
8,652
pay no attention to the distracting spectacle on the ice. what matters is the cap limit.

I mean, kind of?

If the goal is to build a cup contender, then yeah, the boring bigger picture stuff like the salary cap and whatnot is more important than whether Tyler Myers is "not especially good," or "garbage" while he's on that deal.
 
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krutovsdonut

eeyore
Sep 25, 2016
16,904
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I mean, kind of?

If the goal is to build a cup contender, then yeah, the boring bigger picture stuff like the salary cap and whatnot is more important than whether Tyler Myers is "not especially good," or "garbage" while he's on that deal.

except that kind of ruthless judgment by fans actually has an impact on whether you can attract players to build a cup contender, and also whether it is even fun to be a hockey fan and cheer hockey here. spo it is relevant.

there have been numerous loud warnings by players, agents and pundits this year about how unnecessarily brutal the canuck fan base is on social media and how it is influencing players.

i'd classify calling a good likeable player on your own team "garbage" because you view him as overpaid, as solidly in that category. i think it is a viewpoint worthy of criticism and derision. i am frankly sick of fans here attacking our own players for that here. you may be desensitized to it by repetition, but it is pretty f***ing awful shitty behaviour and really kind of shameful when you know full well that characterization reaches those players and impacts them and yet you wade in anyway.

and if you think a player doesn't know about all the toxic shitty stuff canucks fans say about him here and elsewhere, and it doesn't impact how he feels about playing in vancouver versus another city where fans enjoy the games, well i don't believe you. not for a second.
 

4Twenty

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Dec 18, 2018
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We’re now into the crying into your pillow phase of the offseason I guess?
 

sting101

Registered User
Feb 8, 2012
15,948
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except that kind of ruthless judgment by fans actually has an impact on whether you can attract players to build a cup contender, and also whether it is even fun to be a hockey fan and cheer hockey here. spo it is relevant.

there have been numerous loud warnings by players, agents and pundits this year about how unnecessarily brutal the canuck fan base is on social media and how it is influencing players.

i'd classify calling a good likeable player on your own team "garbage" because you view him as overpaid, as solidly in that category. i think it is a viewpoint worthy of criticism and derision. i am frankly sick of fans here attacking our own players for that here. you may be desensitized to it by repetition, but it is pretty f***ing awful shitty behaviour and really kind of shameful when you know full well that characterization reaches those players and impacts them and yet you wade in anyway.

and if you think a player doesn't know about all the toxic shitty stuff canucks fans say about him here and elsewhere, and it doesn't impact how he feels about playing in vancouver versus another city where fans enjoy the games, well i don't believe you. not for a second.
This x 1000

Great Post Krutov. The stuff that gets pushed around here has been repeated by Sekeras Friedman Drance and a ton of lower level pundits who read stuff online for content relating to fan opinion and the marketplace. Kevin Epp has made direct reference to this re: his clients Virtanen and OEL and it's kinda sad when you look at how many good people and players are gravitating away from the influences and BS they have to endure when they can comfortably do the same jobs elsewhere. Shocking no Canadian team has won since 92 i know?

It's disrespectful to think that players who in many cases get completely underpaid and ripped off relating to the contributions they make on a ELC and as RFA's should "fall into line" and be a bargain contracts when they finally get to force a team to pay market value for their services.

Furthermore it's ugly and completely unnecessary to put these labels on players (contract vs production) to the point of labelling them in a derogatory sense and people making them feel like bad players and teammates in public or in social media because of it. Especially when the reality is wear and tear and injury is often the root cause of player decline or a young cheaper stud has come along and maybe pushed them down the depth chart or out of a PP spot and the production drop is somewhat out of their control or is due to the price they have paid previously.

About 5 or 6 yrs ago watching playoff hockey i was flipping between a game in Nashville with an American broadcast crew and CBC and the panel of experts from the Canadian based network. The theme was by the Canadian crew to critique and point out the mistakes that were being made by players, refs, coaches and goalies in the series. Such a negative and snobby way of looking at the game. It would illicit negative conversation and became a theme of finger pointing in social media

In the Nashville series the intermissions were about highlighting the smart and creative plays made by coaches players and goalies to produce chances, key defensive plays, or goals in the game. A refreshing and positive informative take on the game and players in general and made me feel better about what i was watching especially knowing they were trying to attract more people to the game.

Last few yrs the HNIC network has gone through a lot of restructure and changes and the analysis and feedback has taken a turn for the positive. Nice to see that they made these changes for the better

I think people around here need to have some perspective that hockey is a rather meaningless game providing fandom and entertainment you can choose to be part of or not. Some people need to take a step back and stop using their anonymity to project so much hate derogatory speech and negativity on this franchise and it's employees

Well thought out sincere criticism is healthy i'm not implying it's not and this site is here for just that. Projecting a shitty attitude, feeling like you are owed something, or are a better superior person and derogatory speech really sucks when it has vitriol and seriousness behind it.

Anyway...i hope what you said has at least a few people re think what they post or at least how they frame it. Well done for sticking your nose out on many narratives around here whether i agree or not. Glad you posted what you did have felt the same way for a long time. :thumbu:
 

krutovsdonut

eeyore
Sep 25, 2016
16,904
9,581
it is actually a fair question why this subforum tolerates users calling a competent and likeable player on a team "garbage" and other toxic abuse strictly because of his contract. it does seem to be and not the kind of thing that a team subforum should condone. it would be considered trolling if fans of another team came here to do it.

i am sure we will hear the "they are well paid so i can pile on and abuse them" excuses. but are they? it's not really an excuse though unless they are not willing to come here and be abused unless they are overpaid. which becomes the source of the abuse!
 

m9

m9
Sponsor
Jan 23, 2010
25,107
15,229
except that kind of ruthless judgment by fans actually has an impact on whether you can attract players to build a cup contender, and also whether it is even fun to be a hockey fan and cheer hockey here. spo it is relevant.

there have been numerous loud warnings by players, agents and pundits this year about how unnecessarily brutal the canuck fan base is on social media and how it is influencing players.

i'd classify calling a good likeable player on your own team "garbage" because you view him as overpaid, as solidly in that category. i think it is a viewpoint worthy of criticism and derision. i am frankly sick of fans here attacking our own players for that here. you may be desensitized to it by repetition, but it is pretty f***ing awful shitty behaviour and really kind of shameful when you know full well that characterization reaches those players and impacts them and yet you wade in anyway.

and if you think a player doesn't know about all the toxic shitty stuff canucks fans say about him here and elsewhere, and it doesn't impact how he feels about playing in vancouver versus another city where fans enjoy the games, well i don't believe you. not for a second.

This x 1000

Great Post Krutov. The stuff that gets pushed around here has been repeated by Sekeras Friedman Drance and a ton of lower level pundits who read stuff online for content relating to fan opinion and the marketplace. Kevin Epp has made direct reference to this re: his clients Virtanen and OEL and it's kinda sad when you look at how many good people and players are gravitating away from the influences and BS they have to endure when they can comfortably do the same jobs elsewhere. Shocking no Canadian team has won since 92 i know?

It's disrespectful to think that players who in many cases get completely underpaid and ripped off relating to the contributions they make on a ELC and as RFA's should "fall into line" and be a bargain contracts when they finally get to force a team to pay market value for their services.

Furthermore it's ugly and completely unnecessary to put these labels on players (contract vs production) to the point of labelling them in a derogatory sense and people making them feel like bad players and teammates in public or in social media because of it. Especially when the reality is wear and tear and injury is often the root cause of player decline or a young cheaper stud has come along and maybe pushed them down the depth chart or out of a PP spot and the production drop is somewhat out of their control or is due to the price they have paid previously.

About 5 or 6 yrs ago watching playoff hockey i was flipping between a game in Nashville with an American broadcast crew and CBC and the panel of experts from the Canadian based network. The theme was by the Canadian crew to critique and point out the mistakes that were being made by players, refs, coaches and goalies in the series. Such a negative and snobby way of looking at the game. It would illicit negative conversation and became a theme of finger pointing in social media

In the Nashville series the intermissions were about highlighting the smart and creative plays made by coaches players and goalies to produce chances, key defensive plays, or goals in the game. A refreshing and positive informative take on the game and players in general and made me feel better about what i was watching especially knowing they were trying to attract more people to the game.

Last few yrs the HNIC network has gone through a lot of restructure and changes and the analysis and feedback has taken a turn for the positive. Nice to see that they made these changes for the better

I think people around here need to have some perspective that hockey is a rather meaningless game providing fandom and entertainment you can choose to be part of or not. Some people need to take a step back and stop using their anonymity to project so much hate derogatory speech and negativity on this franchise and it's employees

Well thought out sincere criticism is healthy i'm not implying it's not and this site is here for just that. Projecting a shitty attitude, feeling like you are owed something, or are a better superior person and derogatory speech really sucks when it has vitriol and seriousness behind it.

Anyway...i hope what you said has at least a few people re think what they post or at least how they frame it. Well done for sticking your nose out on many narratives around here whether i agree or not. Glad you posted what you did have felt the same way for a long time. :thumbu:

I think blaming the fan base is missing the point.

Fans are generally negative when the organization is bad and losing. Fans are generally positive when the organization is good and winning. This city & it's fans have always embraced the team when it is doing good things. The Finalist teams of 82, 94, and 2011 are still referenced to this day.. almost assuredly more than most teams who didn't even win the Cup are in other cities. Even the 2019-20 bubble team had the city behind them despite the weird circumstances, or the WCE teams that really accomplished nothing of note. Fans were behind those teams. When this team does win a Cup, the people involved with that team will be thoughts of as heroes in this city for a long, long time.

The organization needs to be better. Period. Part of their team building needs to be bringing in players who embrace the kind of fans who will tell it like it is. As an example, it seems Conor Garland is like that so they checked that box this time. Good job.

You are seeing a perfect storm here in Vancouver of social media use being at an all-time high at a time when the Canucks went from being the class of the league for a multi-year period to being a team that perennially is near the bottom of the league. So yes, of course you will see a frustrated fan base. Just as the fan base has been frustrated during other times over the last 50 years - it's just more obvious to see as instead of 10 guys at work talking about the shitty team you have 10,000 guys talking about it on Twitter or message boards.
 

WishfulThinker

Registered User
Jun 10, 2021
193
187
After that interview with Pettersson, it feels like both him and Hughes likely come in on bridge deals now. I wonder how much extra cap room that gives the team to acquire another piece for this 2 year window.

If the inevitable OEL-Myers pairing fails, we could be seeing Benning go hard for someone like Parayko (he probably salivates at a cup-winning big RHD). I wouldn't be surprised to see him send out another 1st + Myers for a sign and trade (8x8.5mil), or straight up for a pre-UFA trade like he did with Toffoli. Cue the fanbase stress and anxiety over contract, and added worries about his back injuries.

I doubt St. Louis will be open to that but if they aren't willing to open the bank for him after all these massive d-men contracts this offseason, maybe Armstrong starts looking for a deal to recoup. They didn't seem to want to pay Pietrangelo either.

In that hypothetical situation where our 1st is going out, I would hope we could squeeze Sundqvist out of them as well (with cap retained). Very versatile player which could play 3rd or 4th line C.

Either way I expect that more short term gain for long term pain is probably coming for the Canucks.
 
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