Fantasy GM Thread | Part 13

[AppleHoneySauce]

But currently we have 488k so we can chip away at it even more so if someone goes on LTIR.

It might be 500k or less by next season (250k for sure for his save %)

Cant use LTIR for it from what someone else said.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Am i missing something on Halak? Dont we just pay him his bonuses this year unless we need to carry them over due to not having cap space?

I would actually re sign him for next year if he stays healthy at 1.5 he's been excellent

That’s what I was wondering too… if we have the cap space can his bonus be absorbed this season? What are the rules for that?

 

[m9]

That’s what I was wondering too… if we have the cap space can his bonus be absorbed this season? What are the rules for that?

Yes, but it would need to be actual cap space and not LTIR space. Someone else can do the math, but I think it will be pretty much impossible this year. If they were able to dump Ferland and then make another big move without taking salary back it would maybe work.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Yes, but it would need to be actual cap space and not LTIR space. Someone else can do the math, but I think it will be pretty much impossible this year. If they were able to dump Ferland and then make another big move without taking salary back it would maybe work.

Ie moving out miller for prospects and picks?

can part of the bonus be covered this year or is it all or nothing?

 

[Melvin]

I forgot that Benning gave Halak a full NMC.

 

[Melvin]

Ie moving out miller for prospects and picks?

can part of the bonus be covered this year or is it all or nothing?

We currently have 7.5M on LTIR between Ferland, Sutter and Hamonic. Even moving out Miller without retention wouldn't get us under the cap.

 

[MS]

That Halak contract obviously isn't the most damaging thing Benning has ever done, but the insane structure and terms speak more clearly than anything else he's done to his selfishness and how his entire 'plan' was always for one year to save his job.

 

[Qwijibo]

I forgot that Benning gave Halak a full NMC.

He did that so Halak would a accept the contract structure. Vancouver couldn’t have signed Halak without going the bonus route. They didn’t have the cap space

 

[AppleHoneySauce]

Ie moving out miller for prospects and picks?

can part of the bonus be covered this year or is it all or nothing?

Pretty sure All of it has to be done but i definitely could be wrong. To get space it would be Miller+2mil i think looking at Cap friendly. We use over 6 mil in LTIR Money.

 

[m9]

Ie moving out miller for prospects and picks?

can part of the bonus be covered this year or is it all or nothing?

Even just moving out Miller for prospects/picks wouldn't be enough to cover it as we are already halfway through the year so they amount of cap the team recaptures via these types of trades goes down by the day.

Just using very basic math but if they traded Ferland & Miller and replaced Miller with a league minimum guy it would probably work. But anything less than that and I don't see it.

I'll keep it simple: If what the media rumor is saying is true about the Canucks having to pay the Halak bonus regardless of whose roster he is on when he hits 10 games, then it is overwhelmingly likely they will have those bonuses on their cap next year. I wouldn't even worry about trying to figure out a way out as it's probably a waste of time.

 

[AppleHoneySauce]

Miller+Beoser would get it done cap wise but i don't know if JR would do it. I think it would be worth while, but I'm not the gm.

 

[m9]

That Halak contract obviously isn't the most damaging thing Benning has ever done, but the insane structure and terms speak more clearly than anything else he's done to his selfishness and how his entire 'plan' was always for one year to save his job.

Couldn't afford a backup goalie so he had to pay for it on credit. If it doesn't work, let the next guy foot the bill. Even if it does work, you still f*** yourself over the following year because you know you are stuck in LTIR because of a previous dumb signing.

Complete idiot.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Thanks, understood now!

 

[m9]

Miller+Beoser would get it done cap wise but i don't know if JR would do it. I think it would be worth while, but I'm not the gm.

If they are going to trade those guys it will be because of an overall team philosophy and nothing to do with the Halak bonus. In a scenario where those guys or gone, there will be a good amount of cap room next year anyway so Halak's bonus sliding kind of becomes a moot point.

 

[MS]

Couldn't afford a backup goalie so he had to pay for it on credit. If it doesn't work, let the next guy foot the bill. Even if it does work, you still f*** yourself over the following year because you know you are stuck in LTIR because of a previous dumb signing.

Complete idiot.

Jim Benning's tenure here was a series of 8 one-year plans to maximize the team's chances of getting into the playoffs in the upcoming season so 'anything can happen!' And then you kick the ball down the road and try again.

He wasn't lying when he said he lived day-to-day.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Totally agree. We are not moving Miller and Boeser in lieu of halak’s bonus.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

This is what happens when you keep an idiot GM, who is trying to save his job, longer than you should.

 

[AppleHoneySauce]

If they are going to trade those guys it will be because of an overall team philosophy and nothing to do with the Halak bonus. In a scenario where those guys or gone, there will be a good amount of cap room next year anyway so Halak's bonus sliding kind of becomes a moot point.

Oh i agree. I was mostly just saying what i might take to clear the space if you wanted to take the bonus this year.

 

[sting101]

I dont think Ferlands LTIR figures into the day to day cap expenditures as it was before the start of season compliance. (He would have to come back for it to fit into the equation) The only issue was setting up as close to the 81.5 as possible to start the year or we would have been capped at the amount below up to his 3.5 AAV ex: 78million if we didn't use it upon end of training camp compliance.

We set our upper limit with him on LTIR on day 1 just under the 81.5.

The thing im murky about is whether the LTIR accumulations of Sutter and Hamonic ongoing is space we can use to pay bonuses (i dont believe we can) and/or if we move a player (above the 750k paygrade) or run at below the day to day operations can we slide in bonus payments to knock down the amounts for carryover.

I'm pretty certain that not pertaining to Covid and LTIR that if we operate below our upper Accrued Cap Space Limit we can pay off any bonuses owed to Halak. Meaning if we trade anyone at the deadline (above 750k) and we bring back less in salary or operate with less players we could probably pay it off by seasons end.

I could be wrong here

 

[m9]

I dont think Ferlands LTIR figures into the day to day cap expenditures as it was before the start of season compliance. (He would have to come back for it to fit into the equation) The only issue was setting up as close to the 81.5 as possible to start the year or we would have been capped at the amount below up to his 3.5 AAV ex: 78million if we didn't use it upon end of training camp compliance.

We set our upper limit with him on LTIR on day 1 just under the 81.5.

The thing im murky about is whether the LTIR accumulations of Sutter and Hamonic ongoing is space we can use to pay bonuses (i dont believe we can) and/or if we move a player (above the 750k paygrade) or run at below the day to day operations can we slide in bonus payments to knock down the amounts for carryover.

I'm pretty certain that not pertaining to Covid and LTIR that if we operate below our upper Accrued Cap Space Limit we can pay off any bonuses owed to Halak. Meaning if we trade anyone at the deadline (above 750k) and we bring back less in salary or operate with less players we could probably pay it off by seasons end.

I could be wrong here

I don't know if the LTIR stuff you posted is correct. My understanding is that the space generated from LTIR cannot be used for bonuses and that would include Ferland. But if I'm wrong then so be it. The LTIR stuff is by far the most confusing part of the salary cap.

The cap is calculated daily so it's not as simple as just slashing 1.5 million from the payroll to pay Halak's bonuses. In simple terms and if LTIR wasn't an issue, then if you traded a player who was making 3 million/year exactly halfway through the season and didn't replace them on the roster that would work.

I really don't see how your example of moving any player over 750k at the deadline works in terms of giving us enough space. Trading a million dollar player at the deadline and not replacing them would give you like 250k in space overall.

 

[sting101]

I don't know if the LTIR stuff you posted is correct. My understanding is that the space generated from LTIR cannot be used for bonuses and that would include Ferland. But if I'm wrong then so be it. The LTIR stuff is by far the most confusing part of the salary cap.

The cap is calculated daily so it's not as simple as just slashing 1.5 million from the payroll to pay Halak's bonuses. In simple terms and if LTIR wasn't an issue, then if you traded a player who was making 3 million/year exactly halfway through the season and didn't replace them on the roster that would work.

I really don't see how your example of moving any player over 750k at the deadline works in terms of giving us enough space. Trading a million dollar player at the deadline and not replacing them would give you like 250k in space overall.

I agree on the LTIR that's what i thought also but i think some people are confused on what our Upper Limit is vs Accrued Cap Space Limit vs the Salary Cap is

With Ferland on LTIR to start the year and without him coming back we (ideally and did) set our ACSL as high and as close to the cap to maximize day to day operations for the year. It's that limit that we work with throughout the season so people saying we cant trade Miller and not get cap space back are wrong.

Of course if we did it at the deadline we would only get 22% of his 5.25 AAV which amounts to about 1.2 million just enough to pay for Halak's bonuses as the save% cannot be payed before the season is over and that 250k will be applied next season if thats what they chose to do or they can defer it all till next season if we acquired salary back in the trade.

And yes you are completely right it's accrued daily so it's not done over a lump sum but would annualize over the rest of the season and then be payed off. They just need to make sure the numbers align if thats what they are aiming to accomplish.

As far as what Gillis and Gillman used to do and what Toronto was doing with LTIR overages and accruing cap space over the season. That is a complex day to day formula that builds throughout the season and it's not a lot of cap space related to the ongoing headaches of call ups and player salary differentials that define it.

I think some teams have been quoted as saying it's just a headache at the end of the day but i guess if your operating at the absolute upper thresholds and have some bad contracts it's a way to reduce some of those impacts and re apply it on the roster.

I'm not sure how that can relate to Halak and if anyone could define that for us?

Sorry for the ramble hope it makes some sense

 

[Red]

The thing that makes me most mad about the Halak stuff is that next year is the year we're FINALLY free of Luongo's stupid recapture penalty. Instead of having it wiped, we now have MORE to pay due to 1) Virtanen's buyout (very much acceptable) 2) Holtby's buyout (not acceptable since the initial contract was ridiculous) and 3) Halak's bonus payments (also not acceptable as it's a result of the Holtby stuff and the general poor cap planning). Thanks Benning you f***.

 

[Canucker]

Honestly, Halak's money isn't a big deal to me next season....it's still a stupid contract I'd be looking to get out of having to pay, but eating that salary and bringing up his value might be more advantageous in the end...provided he's willing to waive his NTC to go to a contending team. For me, next season is going to be a necessary step backwards to take two steps forward, and it will more likely be 2+ years before we start seeing actual progress...this team is still poorly constructed and poorly stocked for the future. So dead cap space is ok as long as there is a tangible asset you can claim that is attached to it.

 

[God]

Jesus, this team is going to be in such better shape now that someone like Castonguay is hired to prevent careless garbage like this. But only in like 3-4 years.

 

[sting101]

I'm not sure i share the same negativity towards our cap. With the 2 million in increase and even with Boeser getting 7.5 which is stupid and needs to be addressed in some way we would still have 3-3.5 million for an upgrade on D or a middle six player that can produce and maybe have some net presence.

I would simply be more concerned about a top 2/3 D, the core and how they are gonna beat other top teams cores over the next 5-6 yrs. Plus the fact we are a perimeter team in need of a bit more size and speed to compete with the top dawgs.